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All religions
Topic Started: 20 Oct 2009, 09:52 PM (5,195 Views)
conradw
Goliath
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I don't want to be flippant or anything but it really doesn't take anything more than the intention to call yourself a Christian.

Maybe it would help if I explained the notion like this: its not about the noun, its the adjective which is important. I do call myself a Christian, but that is incidental and a product of upbringing and affiliation (akin to where you call home: one could say they're a Mancunian but haven't lived in Manchester for decades).
Being Christian means behaving in a way that Christ would have encouraged - whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is in the eye of the beholder. This for me, is a goal more than a state of being. Similarly, I wouldn't mind being described as Guevara-an: both men held ideals of justice, revolution, and a passionate love for one's fellow man (obviously there are differences too: Che spoke spanish, whereas Jesus - as we all know - spoke english :P ).

does that make sense?
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Luemas
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DELICIOUS!
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The road is narrow...

That's all I have to say.
Think of it what you will.
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably.
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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This is interesting, as I would rather use the adjective "Christ-like" than "Christian" and save that last one to describe a follower of a certain religion (i.e. accepting certain dogmas to be true and rejecting others as false).

Otherwise, you could call yourself a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Humanist, Unicornian, Concolorian, and they would all mean exactly the same as "being a nice guy". And then these words would carry no meaning and be redundant. Do you think many Christians would accept the label of Unicornian? I find it more useful to use these terms to describe people who adhere to a certain set of beliefs, and describe their actions with the perfectly good adjectives we already have (just, fair, cowardly, malicious, valiant etc.) rather than comparing everything that you do with some guy. And how do you know what Christ would have liked you to do?

And would you claim to be more Christian than a convert that has not been brought up in such a culture, but who still has all the beliefs of someone I would call Christian?

In short, I think I understand your usage of the word to a certain extent, but I do not think that is the most useful usage of it. I also think that many who call themselves Christian use the word differently. Now you may like to call what I call a chair "a table", and as long as you explain your usage thoroughly to me we can have a meaningful conversation, but it would still be easier to call it a chair if that is what most people do (and I would claim that my definition is closer to the most common usage, but this can be discussed).
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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conradw
Goliath
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I think to equate these religions is to do them a disservice and to belittle what they are saying. While I would only take it as a compliment if my friend Ali said something I did was truly Islamic, that would not be my intention.

I don't thing all those things do mean "be a nice guy." sometimes the most loving thing you can do is not the nicest thing (I wouldn't for example help you cheat on a test, but I might help you study).

maybe it has more to do with the mentality behind what they're instructing. The Islam I know emphases sobriety (in a broader sense than drinking) and compassion but also a rejection of pride. Buddhist and similar philosophies, I feel enjoin us to see how interwoven the world is, leading to a notion of Kharma amongst others. The humanist approach makes an ideal out of rationality, Pastafarianism likewise but comedy.
Christianity, with the teaching of the trinity and brotherhood, casts its light more strongly on relationships.

None of these things are exclusive to the religion i've assigned, and this really REALLY is a gross simplification.

I guess my point is, do you really think it is the same to behave in a ways the Martin Luther King Jr and Ghandi put forward? On some level, yes, on another, no.

I wouldn't claim to be more Christian than anyone. I've been told both complimentally(sp?) and pejoratively that I'm the worst Christian people have met, so I know not to throw stones from my glass house. I wouldn't even claim to be more Christian that someone who doesn't claim to be Christian.

While I don't know that he gave the Golden Rule (and I'm quite sure it would exist in some form even if he didn't), I think I can use that as a yardstick for what he would have wanted.

also. look up the definition of Christian - one thing it offers is exactly that: Christlike. Although I usually think that 'Christlike' is on a more physical/personal level rather than on an intellectual/moral level: who is more Christlike and who is more Christian: St Paul or Wilberforce? - or that may just be my interpretation...
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@conradw: Though i find your answer both interesting and educational, I do think it's a bit besides my point. (That may be because I've failed to make it clear)

As far as I read from your definition, both you and I, and the majority of people I've met in my life are Christians.
By my definition I'm not a Christian, are you?

And perhaps I got us into this mess by using the word "Christian". If you and I have similar opinions according to these various definitions, why do you consider yourself a theist while I see myself as the opposite?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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conradw
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If you consider yourself a Christian, then as far as I'm concerned, you're a Christian.
If you consider yourself a non-thiestic Christian, I'm interested how you work that one out, but I'll still consider you a Christian.

If you base your definition on the video you presented strictly, then I would have to say I'm not a Christian (but then you already knew that). I think such a view wears blinkers and calls them a crown.
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Deleted User
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*damm these blinkers again.....note to self-get a bigger pair or lose some weight*

@virgin bedder Condraw....or what was that you call yourself?
i am one of those LOUD christians you annoyingly spoke about that believes Jesus when he says verily verily :) its important important

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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@conradw: Let's exaggerate a bit, so my point comes out clearer. Let's say that I consider myself to be God. Would you then consider me to be God too?

Or to look at it differently: You ask how I would solve the "problem" of being a non-theistic Christian. Well I (for the sake of this example) define a Christian as a guy with the same hair-color as Jesus. Hence I am a Christian.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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conradw
Goliath
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I don't think i could accept you being God just on your say so (for any meaningful/relevent definition of the word God). A few miracles would be nice but not necessary - more importantly you could share some of your wisdom, and I'll decide whether I think that's something God would say.
I realise that's probably a little circular.

@Arazec: "truly they have received their reward" Matthew 6...
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@conradw: And in more or less the same way do I have problems accepting you being Christian just on account of you saying so (for what I would consider meaningful/relevant definitions of the word Christian). This is sorta what I'm getting at: You're willing to accept any internal definitions of a Christian coming from someone who calls themselves that, but when it comes to the word God you demand (to a certain degree) compliance with an outer standard.

I require such a standard for both. Of course we could discuss exactly what a meaningful standard would be for a Christian, but I would call it special pleading to demand that there should be no external standard to label yourself as such when we demand this from basically every other label out there.
Edited by Concolor, 16 Nov 2009, 04:40 AM.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Deleted User
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@conradw :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: o.k forgive me :)
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conradw
Goliath
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Wow arazec, I think we just shared a really cool moment there. much more than those our words would have suggested. :)

concolor: I think suppose I could give a bunch of other reasons why you could say i'm a christian (although, to me, these are less important). I was raised as a Catholic, baptised, had my first communion, and last year I was confirmed (although into the Church of England). I was the chapel clerk at my college for the past two years, and although I don't do that anymore, i still attend as regularly as I can.
So if I say I'm a christian, its not as if I'm making it up: its not as if I said 'now I'm a Raelian,' out of whole cloth.
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Deleted User
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@conradw-yes i hope so

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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@conradw: Let's look at it the other way around. Let's pretend I just converted, I wholeheartedly started believing in the God of the Bible and his son Jesus as my savior. I praised him in my heart and devoted my life to follow him.

Could I still call myself an atheist because that's how I grew up?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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conradw
Goliath
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well no one's going to stop you, especially seeing as how you don't have a pope in atheism.

I'm assuming you're not changing your rationalist or secular beliefs in this great conversion are you?
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