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| Gay Religion; GAY | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 30 Nov 2009, 09:21 AM (8,288 Views) | |
| Deleted User | 14 Dec 2009, 07:00 AM Post #61 |
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just jumping in for the obvious... when it contradicts the Bible- God will not tell you to do something that contradicts his word then Holy Spirit and the wise council of those in Spiritual Authority over you-its quite a good spread of risk dont ya think? Better than empathy alone.... |
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| conradw | 14 Dec 2009, 01:03 PM Post #62 |
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Goliath
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Is that how they knew in old testament times? |
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| Deleted User | 14 Dec 2009, 04:10 PM Post #63 |
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God sent the gift of the Holy spirit after Jesus - pre Jesus they had the Mosaic laws. Typically he spoke to man through a spokes person (even a donkey) by prophesy,confirming miracles,angels,visions,directly etc... etc..-New testament times before they had acsess to God on the inside of them he was carried around in the ark of covenent -Jesus became the link for each individual. God is not resticted in the way he can communicate with his creation -his ways are not our ways thats not a comprehensive list... |
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| conradw | 14 Dec 2009, 05:43 PM Post #64 |
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Goliath
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how did moses know it was God and not his own thoughts and feelings? Does Jesus act as the link for people who aren't Christian? I only ask because I know a fair few people of other religions who know God in a personal way. And before Jesus they didn't have that? does that apply to people of other religions as well? I'm just thinking of all the times that people who "knew" God was speaking to them also found him telling them to do stuff that is forbidden. I guess they didn't use your rubric? |
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| Deleted User | 15 Dec 2009, 08:40 AM Post #65 |
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Exodus clearly says God spoke to the people from Mount Sinai- His messenger who was Mosses -God was at Mount Sinai with Moses and He spoke to the people from there the Bible also tells us that inumerable angels participated. Yes-Jesus is available for all people as for the ppl who were sure they knew God was speaking to them and telling them to do forbidden things i can say they they did not recognise Gods voice..... Num 23:19 (NIV) God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? |
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| conradw | 15 Dec 2009, 12:52 PM Post #66 |
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Goliath
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What about Acts 10 when Peter is told that he can eat any meat he wants to. Might not this then be the desires of his own heart to eat whatever he likes in direct opposition to the Law of Moses? So was that not God's voice then? |
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| Junior | 15 Dec 2009, 03:38 PM Post #67 |
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Brother-in-law of Soul
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When Jesus died, he became the catylist for the law. He didn't do away with it, but he made them unnecessary. The books of law, mostly had to do with Israeli problems. problems that only mattered back then. I'm talking about stuff like the shellfish and pork law. Things that only applied back then. Things like the ten commandments are as relevant now as they were back then. |
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| Concolor | 15 Dec 2009, 10:04 PM Post #68 |
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Barabbas
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And how do we know which things are relevant now and which were only relevant back then? |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Deleted User | 16 Dec 2009, 07:15 AM Post #69 |
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well we have been thru this before on this site......but anyway.... •Jesus taught that "the proper way to keep any commandment was to fulfill the purpose for which it was given." For instance, Jesus taught that the Sabbath was instituted for the sake of people (Mk 2:27), and therefore picking food to eat or healing on the Sabbath was perfectly allowable. (Mk 2:23-3:5). •Jesus' teachings on the Law also focused on inward obedience, or obedience of the heart, rather than outward, legalistic obedience (Mt 5:21-28). Furthermore, Matthew 15:17-20 contains the same teaching that in Mark is explicitly interpreted as saying that all foods are clean (Mk 7:14-23). •"The law is fulfilled ethically rather than ceremonially," which Jesus emphasizes by quoting Hosea 6:6: "I desire mercy, not sacrifice" (Mt 9:13, 12:7). Jesus' fulfillment of the Law applies particularly to the sacrificial system. The requirement of sacrifice in order for sins to be forgiven is still in effect, but the requirement has been fulfilled by Jesus' death. Since the sacrifices described in the Law no longer have to be carried out, people might think that the Law itself has been abolished (e.g. sacrifice was once required for forgiveness, but is no longer a requirement), but Jesus explains that he is meeting the requirement, not removing it. Or rather, the need for us today to meet the sacrificial and ceremonial obligations of the Law is abolished, but not the need for those obligations to have been fulfilled in Jesus. Ephesians 2:13-15 is part of a discussion of the unity of Jews and Gentiles in Christ (Eph 2:11-22), hence verse 14 is emphasizing the fact that the laws which separated Gentiles from the Israelites (e.g circumcision) are no longer in effect. The need for post-resurrection followers of God to follow the ceremonial laws - which formed the barrier between Jews and Gentiles - was abolished; the law itself was not abolished, but fulfilled. It is also worth noting that the Greek word translated as "abolish" in v. 14 is different from the word for "abolish" used in Mt 5:17; the former is translated elsewhere as "fade away" and "pass away," while the latter is only translated as "destroy," "abolish," and "thrown down." (This bit of knowledge is from the NIV Exhaustive Concordance.) Hebrews 7:18-19 refers to the regulations of the Levitical priesthood, as part of a discussion of the priesthood of Jesus (Heb 6:19-8:2). While the regulations served a purpose, ordinary Levite priests could not atone for sin once for all as Jesus did, and in that sense the regulations were "weak and useless." The requirements of atoning for sin through sacrifice that the Levite priests attempted to meet were not abolished, but fulfilled through Jesus. |
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| Concolor | 16 Dec 2009, 08:03 AM Post #70 |
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC: Why does God keep changing his rules? Would it not be better to get it right in the first place? Also, when it comes to translations, I suppose you know the difference between "virgin" and "young woman" ?
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Deleted User | 16 Dec 2009, 03:10 PM Post #71 |
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@Concolor did you just now read any of that? God does not change his rules and anywhere you have missapplied scripture AND SEE YOUR CORRECTION as contradiction in the Bible is a relection of your intention to discredit rather than learn Gods word- What Jesus means by under living Grace not Law- the intent and motive of a crime not the technicality of a word "young women" or "virgin" living under Grace you wont want to use a slight in the law to commit a crime and dont try to say Gods laws are ambigious so ppl wont know what to do define the word evil if you can? |
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| Junior | 16 Dec 2009, 03:37 PM Post #72 |
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Brother-in-law of Soul
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Also, times change. We have clones and automobiles now. God COULD'VE talked about automobiles and cloning, but no one would've understood him 3000+ years ago. |
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| Concolor | 16 Dec 2009, 04:00 PM Post #73 |
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC:Yes, I read all of that multiple times In the old testament people are being stoned for working on the sabbath, I cannot conclude otherwise than that in those days working on the sabbath is a crime punishable by stoning. You then say that "Jesus taught that the Sabbath was instituted for the sake of people (Mk 2:27), and therefore picking food to eat or healing on the Sabbath was perfectly allowable. (Mk 2:23-3:5)". Apparently, after Jesus the rules have changed so that it is now perfectly permissible to work on the sabbath So following God's rules word by word is not the right path? We must rather follows God's intention? How do we know what his intentions are? @Junior: Why do times, and right morals, change if our morals are given to us by a timeless God? Also would it not be a lot more convincing if God HAD included clones and cars in the Bible? Sure, back in the day people would have found it confusing, but then again he put in seven headed dragons there which confuses me even today. And if he felt so restricted to keep everything in line with the time of the writing of the Bible, why did he not keep publishing updated scriptures (in content, not wording) so that people could actually use his scripture on day-to-day situations like they could in the old days (the Bible's full of life tips on what to do in loads of situations that can happen to you if you live in the middle-east 2000 years ago). or perhaps I am talking about the Koran now? |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Junior | 16 Dec 2009, 04:19 PM Post #74 |
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Brother-in-law of Soul
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Ah, but people AREN'T timeless. And the bible's written for the people anyway. Imagine how little would be accomplished if time and culture stayed exactly the same. That's the only way a timeless world would work, if we were exactly the same people as we were millions of years ago. We'd still be drawing pictures on caves. BOOM! God's a cultural catalyst God. I personally find the texts as relevant now as they were back then. Sure, times change, but human nature doesn't. Also, new interpretations are found in the bible all of the time, it's been that way for thousands of years. If he inspires us to find meanings that are more time-relevant he doesn't have to waste paper with printing new bibles. BOOM! He's an environmentalist God too. |
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| Concolor | 16 Dec 2009, 04:46 PM Post #75 |
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Barabbas
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@Junior:I agree, but WHY aren't we timeless? Why did people condone behaviour in the old days that we now find atrocious? Why do we today condone behaviour that people once found to be sinful or appalling? If our moral code comes from a timeless being, one should expect some sort of constant moral code, should one not? Really? Please read the following verses: Genesis 3:16, 1 Corinthians 11:3-9, Ephesians 5:22-24, Titus 2:5, 1 Peter 3:1-6. I don't know about you, but to me they seem to suggest that women should be submissive to men. I hardly find this compatible with our present gender equality-standards. |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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