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Gay Religion; GAY
Topic Started: 30 Nov 2009, 09:21 AM (8,287 Views)
dragonshardz
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Jumping in:

About Wrath as a sin, Jesus in the temple, etc.:

Anger itself is not a sin. UNREASONABLE anger (wrath) IS. Wrath = hate. End of story.

Jesus did NOT hate the moneychangers in the temple, he was angry that they used HIS FATHER'S HOUSE as a place to conduct business instead of worship.
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I lurk a lot on this forum, and am very busy in real life, so don't be surprised if I take a couple days, or even weeks, to reply to your post or PM.

GENERATION 11: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any other forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
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conradw
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Okay,

But the Bible says anger is a sin... :(

Am I the only one who cares what that book says?
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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I care too ;)
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Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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dragonshardz
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I care as well, but if anger is a sin then God's a sinner too.

Anyone else remember "wrathful God" being in the Bible somewheres?
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I lurk a lot on this forum, and am very busy in real life, so don't be surprised if I take a couple days, or even weeks, to reply to your post or PM.

GENERATION 11: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any other forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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Uh...no comment... :whistle:
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Junior
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It was in the bible constantly, but I want the verse that says anger is a sin.
Call it what you want
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conradw
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Gal 5:20

OMG Concolor, you crack me up! There's something so wonderfully laconic about those last two posts. Well done!
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the bible says "be angry but do not sin"

Gal 5:20 talks about fits of rage in some versions -it does not say fits of anger -but even if it did you need to look at the verse IN CONTEXT

read the proceeding verse from Galations-

Life by the Spirit
16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

WHEN jESUS OVERTURNED the tables in the synagog it was not because he was pridefull or conceited it was because the sacred place was being used more for making money then anything to do with praise,worship,pray, resourcing ppl for Kingdom purposes etc...etc...

@Condraw -Just a question- were you reading the Bible and happened to come across that verse from Galatians and THINK FOR YOURSELF ohhh that sounds a bit how ya going OR did you just read it from some internet site that talks about Bible Contradictions or from an Atheist site or something....
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Concolor
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@ARAZEC: Whoa! Did you just say that Gal 5:18 advocates lawlessness? "But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law." Which law is this? God's law or other laws? How do we now if someone are truly led by the Spirit and not just deceiving us?

Also, why didn't Jesus just turn the other cheek in the Synagogue?

@conradw: Thanx, but it's mostly because I keep getting these wonderful passes and all I need to do is stretch out my foot and the ball hits the goal with no real effort at all. :)
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...or so it seems to you....

i hope my question gets answered.......
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Concolor
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Yes, that's exactly the way it seems to me. And I see no more consistent way of interpreting it.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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conradw
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To answer your question:
The first time I encountered this text I remember thinking 'well I don't really do any of those, so I'm alright.' and didn't think of it any further.

The next time I came across it i think it was in a discussion about what constitutes sexual immorality.

After that, I remember hearing a talk about Greek Othadox beliefs including the notion that in order to share truly our humanity, Jesus had to take on our sinfulness as well (not to do so would mean he isn't completely human).

I couldn't remember the chapter and verse off the top of my head so I looked it up. I probably found it on Bible Gateway, but I wouldn't be surprised if I found it on SAB.


Finally I have a gripe to get off my chest:
I am sick of people stating I am quoting out of context when they can't even clarify what that context is. If you think the context I supplied was wrong, then the onus is on YOU to supply that context.

Now, that being said, in this particular case:
Quote:
 
16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
If you took the time to understand the context of what is being said, the answer to Concolor's question becomes immediately apparent.
This passage is saying "Be lead by the spirit, and not sin. Sin leads you to do all those bad things, but the Spirit leads you to do good. If you are lead by the Spirit, you are not bound by the Law, because there is no law against any of those things which the spirit leads you to do. Even though we are of the Spirit, we must be on our guard lest our sinful nature return"

Does that answer your question Concolor?
Edited by conradw, 21 Dec 2009, 07:39 PM.
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Quote:
 
Finally I have a gripe to get off my chest:
I am sick of people stating I am quoting out of context when they can't even clarify what that context is. If you think the context I supplied was wrong, then the onus is on YOU to supply that context
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onus ? what about the preponderance of the evidence !!!

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Concolor
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@conradw: Thank you, that does answer one of my questions :)

It does raise a couple of other ones though:
- If all that really matters is to be led by the Spirit, what on Earth are all those laws and rules for? How about a golden post-it note saying "Follow the spirit"?
- Also, how do we now if someone are truly led by the Spirit and not just deceiving us (or probably even themselves)?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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conradw
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what about the preponderance of evidence?

Until you give some evidence that I am wrong and your interpretation is right, preponderance of evidence is not an issue. (in other words, we'll worry about how much is required when we actually have some to work with).

Concolor: Law may be for people who are not lead by the spirit? In this sense, I agree with Paul: in a perfect world, we wouldn't need the law. If everyone did what was right, and all the laws were good, we wouldn't need the law. It think instead of the golden post-it note we a have the Golden Rule.
- Presumably we'll know whether or not they are lead by the spirit by whether or not they are any of the things mentioned in verses 19 to 21.
If they fit into the 22-23 category, that means they are lead by the spirit.

I guess Paul is insinuating that a deceitful person would not be able to hide all their sinful qualities for long...
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