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Gay Religion; GAY
Topic Started: 30 Nov 2009, 09:21 AM (8,284 Views)
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ooowww this is great !!!

@Concolor you are thinking of the right story- let me know when you have read it :)
then tell me what you think

btw -the son wanted his portion and then left the father once he got what he wanted
-in those days the father would have likely sold land to divy up the portions -thus losing half of his overall wealth - an inheritance is meant for after the death of a person.
That a son should reject his father for material things and what wealth can buy would have been a huge disgrace for the father in the communities eyes-

so yeah,thats even before he squandered it ....

Poor Father....

But after you read it -tell me- What do you think of the brother who stayed with the father and did good works -up untill his brother came home- but ended up rejecting his father.....?

btw Concolor-i like how you explained people watching and am interested on your observations-perhaps you will share your insight on a new topic i am posting titled FAITH....


Wow Concolor you have been talking to Christians on this particular forum for a while so your post quoted bellow REALLY interesting....
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When answering (or dodging) my questions about their Gods (or political ideologies), believers tell me something very important about themselves, their minds, and how they interact as a group and with other groups. It tells me about the phenomenon of faith, how it affects people and how it arises or disappears.


so if you dont want to name names just share about what you have learned about MY *lack* lol of mind and i hope to f|||| my faith comes across as simple and childlike.
you could always just change names....










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Midst Of Vampy
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Barabbas
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Afalstein
13 Apr 2010, 09:35 PM
Homosexuals are sinners. Bible makes that very plain. So are an awful lot of people in the world. Drug addicts are sinners. Prostitutes are sinners. They're also victims of self-destructive lifestyles. In my view, that's actually what a lot of homosexuals are.

In the cosmic sense, all of us, including you, me, and Pastor Jim, are sinners. The difference lies in how they address that sin. Christians are supposed to struggle against their sin and ask God for forgiveness. They're not supposed to revel in it, claim it's 'okay' and demand special rights to recognize that their sin isn't a problem.

I have no problem with people who struggle with homosexual feelings. I don't even really have a problem with homosexuals who hate what they're doing and try to break free from it. They are sinners in need of God's grace just as you and I are. I DO have a problem with Homosexuals who flaunt it in people's face and dare them to do something about it. Maybe that's unchristian of me and I ought to turn the other cheek, but there it is.
Excuse me? WHAT? Homosexuality is NOT a sin. I am agnostic,BTW. God,"Supposedly", is supposed to be forgiving. If he was so forgiving, then why did he go tell people to go kill cities, and families? If you do not believe me, read the old testimant. In KINGS, 42 children were killed by bears god sent down, because they made fun of his bald head. Does that sound forgiving? I don't think so. I actually do not believe in God, personally, but i try to see how other people do. Just because someone wrote the Bible makes everything in it true? No. If people are sinners, why wouldn't we all go to hell? If God made us, then why would he make us sinners? Because he is imperfect. Everything, and everyone is imperfect. Including God. God is nothing more than a murderer. He has killed thousands and thousands of people, according to the Bible. That makes him a Saint? If god is real, why have we no trace of him? If homosexuals are sinners, so are straight people. If god wanted us to be perfect, He would have made us so. But we are not.
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Afalstein
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Vampira7426
21 Apr 2010, 10:48 PM
Excuse me? WHAT? Homosexuality is NOT a sin. I am agnostic,BTW. God,"Supposedly", is supposed to be forgiving. If he was so forgiving, then why did he go tell people to go kill cities, and families? If you do not believe me, read the old testimant. In KINGS, 42 children were killed by bears god sent down, because they made fun of his bald head. Does that sound forgiving? I don't think so. I actually do not believe in God, personally, but i try to see how other people do. Just because someone wrote the Bible makes everything in it true? No. If people are sinners, why wouldn't we all go to hell? If God made us, then why would he make us sinners? Because he is imperfect. Everything, and everyone is imperfect. Including God. God is nothing more than a murderer. He has killed thousands and thousands of people, according to the Bible. That makes him a Saint? If god is real, why have we no trace of him? If homosexuals are sinners, so are straight people. If god wanted us to be perfect, He would have made us so. But we are not.
That's all very nice, but I fail to see how that applies. You're arguing that God is not forgiving, which really does not contribute to your argument that homosexuality is not a sin. Like it or not, the Bible DOES say that Homosexuality is a sin. God's mercy or lack thereof does not really change that fact.

This is the gay religion thread. Not the atheist/agnostic thread. If you want to argue about the logical contradictions of God's mercy, make a thread to argue about that, otherwise your post has little to no bearing on the argument.
"Evil Triumphs when Good men do nothing."
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:ermm: i think she was saying unless you beleive the Bible is Gods word Homosexuality is not a Sin in the same way you are saying its a Sin because the Bible says so ??? and that even if it was Gods word than the God of the Bible she sees and knows of seems imperfect to her ?

but thats just what i thought Vampira7426 was saying.... :unsure:

@Vampira7426 you seem a pretty cluey person what do you define Sin as? if you know what its not then what is it?

btw Christian ! but a muchly forgiven one.......

Who of the agnostic thieists do you relate your beleifs with mostly? i always get confused and end up not really knowing what u you actually beleive/unbeleive ? :blink:
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conradw
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Okay. for one thing I thought I was the Christian counterpart to Concolor (maybe for different reasons).

The prodigal son thing: the message of it is for us to be like the father - love one another as God loves you. If you see it from that perspective, it makes a bit more sense.


but the main point of my post is this: Homosexuality is not a sin.
Why? because love is never a sin.
If the Paul thought homosexuality was a sin, then Paul is wrong. If the author of Leviticus thought homosexuality was a sin then he was wrong (also wrong about shellfish too).
As the Bible says - God is love. If God is love then love is not a sin. Therefore homosexuality and homosexual love is not a sin.

As I have said many many times before: don't let Paul's bigotry get in the way of your love.
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Afalstein
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conradw
23 Apr 2010, 07:43 AM
Okay. for one thing I thought I was the Christian counterpart to Concolor (maybe for different reasons).

The prodigal son thing: the message of it is for us to be like the father - love one another as God loves you. If you see it from that perspective, it makes a bit more sense.


but the main point of my post is this: Homosexuality is not a sin.
Why? because love is never a sin.
If the Paul thought homosexuality was a sin, then Paul is wrong. If the author of Leviticus thought homosexuality was a sin then he was wrong (also wrong about shellfish too).
As the Bible says - God is love. If God is love then love is not a sin. Therefore homosexuality and homosexual love is not a sin.

As I have said many many times before: don't let Paul's bigotry get in the way of your love.
Whoah! What the hey? Paul is a bigot? Love is a universal "Get out of Jail Free?"

Dude, you just said that one vague, out of context reference disproves basically anything else in the Bible that disagrees with it. (I notice you didn't look up either denouncement).

But even outside of that... Love makes everything okay? Pedophiles love kids. A number of rapists love their victims (in a twisted manner). Amnon loved his sister Tamar. Some people love barnyard animals. Does the fact that the love is unrequited make it invalid? In some cases, like the kids, siblings, and animals, its wholly possible the matter is consensual.

Mind you, I'm not necessarily saying that homosexuality is equal to any of these things. But your statement "love is never a sin" brings up all sorts of problems.

People love money. People love power. Some people kill, cheat, lie, and rob for perfectly consensual love. Others commit adultery because they are in love with other women. Is all this okay just because "God is love?"

I don't doubt that many homosexuals truly love each other. But that doesn't make it right.
Edited by Afalstein, 23 Apr 2010, 08:30 AM.
"Evil Triumphs when Good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
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Concolor
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@conradw: Don't worry, we can all be each others counterparts :)

Actually, I strongly disagree with your point (also I count homosexuality as an act of love, not love itself).

I think the Bible is quite clear that homosexuality is a sin. To me it seems like homosexuality is portrayed as almost the most abominable sin in the book (worse than rape, and incest is practically condoned, as well as slavery). You say that this would contradict the part of the Bible saying that God is love, and I agree. But this is hardly the only point where the Bible contradicts itself, apologists write pages and even books trying to reconcile the contradictions in the Bible and between the Bible and reality. So why do you find this contradiction any more difficult to ignore than the rest?

In order to not count homosexuality as a sin you would have to believe that particular part of the Bible to be untrue - as you do in this case. But how do you know that this part is untrue and not the part about God being love?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

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Concolor
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@ARAZEC: Yes, please do start a thread on faith where we can discuss the matter further.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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conradw
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Just before we count concolor's vote as one of support for Afalstein's position, I'd like to ask our resident Secular Humanist one question - putting aside everything your positions on evidence and reality for just one moment, do you think that the Bible's position on homosexuality will make you (a) more likely to become a Christian? or (b) less likely to become a Christian?
I've deliberately left out other possibilities just to understand which side of the fence you actually come down on.
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Afalstein
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Concolor
23 Apr 2010, 11:23 AM
I think the Bible is quite clear that homosexuality is a sin. To me it seems like homosexuality is portrayed as almost the most abominable sin in the book (worse than rape, and incest is practically condoned, as well as slavery).
Agree with a lot of your post, except I still don't consider this a "contradiction," but that's a whole another can of worms.

I just wanted to address this one point--homosexuality is not considered the worst sin. Actually, again technically there is no "worst" sin, they're all equally bad, but homosexuality is only mentioned a few times. Definitely as a sin, but not as the worst one. If you were talking in terms of outrage to God, blasphemy is probably more offensive. The absolute worst--called the unforgivable sin--is actually somewhat abstract, its quite simply rejecting Christ's grace.

By the way, I've been meaning to ask... how did you find this site, Concolor? I mean, it's cool to find someone who doesn't follow the same assumptions as most of the others here, but I'm just curious why a secular humanist hangs out around a place like Godlimations.
"Evil Triumphs when Good men do nothing."
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Midst Of Vampy
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Afalstein
21 Apr 2010, 11:08 PM
Vampira7426
21 Apr 2010, 10:48 PM
Excuse me? WHAT? Homosexuality is NOT a sin. I am agnostic,BTW. God,"Supposedly", is supposed to be forgiving. If he was so forgiving, then why did he go tell people to go kill cities, and families? If you do not believe me, read the old testimant. In KINGS, 42 children were killed by bears god sent down, because they made fun of his bald head. Does that sound forgiving? I don't think so. I actually do not believe in God, personally, but i try to see how other people do. Just because someone wrote the Bible makes everything in it true? No. If people are sinners, why wouldn't we all go to hell? If God made us, then why would he make us sinners? Because he is imperfect. Everything, and everyone is imperfect. Including God. God is nothing more than a murderer. He has killed thousands and thousands of people, according to the Bible. That makes him a Saint? If god is real, why have we no trace of him? If homosexuals are sinners, so are straight people. If god wanted us to be perfect, He would have made us so. But we are not.
That's all very nice, but I fail to see how that applies. You're arguing that God is not forgiving, which really does not contribute to your argument that homosexuality is not a sin. Like it or not, the Bible DOES say that Homosexuality is a sin. God's mercy or lack thereof does not really change that fact.

This is the gay religion thread. Not the atheist/agnostic thread. If you want to argue about the logical contradictions of God's mercy, make a thread to argue about that, otherwise your post has little to no bearing on the argument.
How would forgiveness not apply? God is supposed to forgive everyone, so he should forgive Homosexuals. If God did not want Homosexuals, he would not have created them. If he put them on this earth, then why is it a sin in the first place?
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conradw
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I go one step further. While God forgives all sins, being gay is not something you need to ask forgiveness for. Similarly, being Australian is not something you might ask forgiveness for

In fact I'll go further.

The Bible tells us God is Love. It also tells us that of the three things which are eternal, Love is the greatest. Surely God, being eternal and ever so great could not therefore be anything but Love.
When people love each other, it is not just as Concolor described it, an act of love. It is an act of God. A beautiful thing. A miracle.
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Luemas
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God forgives everyone who comes to him and believes that Jesus Christ, was God's own son, died and rose again, for the remission of sins. There are also extensive verses devoted to denouncing Homosexuality as a sin. I'm not saying a homosexual can't be a Christian, but that they should try, like everybody else who has sin, to cast it off.
Anger, that's a sin. Pride (Guilty) Cast it off. Lust, (I think most men, myself included, are guilty of this.)
Homosexuality is neither the worst nor the best sin. It is merely, deserving of being cast off. And you assume God created Homosexuals. This is not true. There is no verse that says God created homosexuals, in fact, verses to the opposite, Romans 1:27 (7In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. He goes on to list all the things that are deserving of death. Gossip, strife, murder, anger towards parents etc.
But my main point here is , received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion A perversion, by definition, is the perverting, the twisting of something originally intended for good. What was the original intent for good? Man and wife. That's why he created Adam and Eve, who would rule together over their household.


Sorry If I'm harsh, I get a little rant-ish when it comes to religion and faith. I tried to speak out of love, but I find I often don't.
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:D GOD is LOVE

can you be love?

Humans can show love,be in love,display love,make love,be loving,express love.

to be loved by love itself ;) the ultimate ! fall in love with God :thumbs:

The Bible says making love (as in having sex) with the same sex is a sin-
as is making love (as in having sex) with animals- as is making love (as in having sex) unmarried-the bible says a lot about sex....

i cant find where the bible says God does not love people who are sinners?

God loves everyone :) God doesnt love sin.

i love people who happen to disagree that same sex sex is not a sin - fortunately they love me back and dont hate me because i beleive same sex sex is a sin which is unusual because a lot of ppl blow up and hate you if you say you beleive homosexuality is a sin- :blink: so yeah human love falls short of GODS love.....

Nowadays homosexuality is viewed as a normal and positive variant of human sexuality.
The homosexual varient does not fall within certain limits in place about sex in the bible nor does positivity come from practising something forbidden in the bible -so i dont hold the same view on Homosexuality :)












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Luemas
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Never mind this...
Edited by Luemas, 25 Apr 2010, 09:05 PM.
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