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Free Will; A good or bad idea?
Topic Started: 7 Jan 2010, 09:42 AM (1,806 Views)
conradw
Goliath
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Hi guys.
I'm going to offer a topic for discussion in this new year. Its a little bit more abstract and hopefully less flame-worthy.

Is free will a good or a bad thing? Is it good that people have it? Do people have it?

eventually I'd like to get on the topic of 'why do we have it?'

please: share your views :welcome:
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Deleted User
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yes well do you think commiting suicide is a good choice for people to exercise their free will in reacting to their circumstances?
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conradw
Goliath
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ARAZEC
7 Jan 2010, 09:48 AM
yes well do you think commiting suicide is a good choice for people to exercise their free will in reacting to their circumstances?
I don't see how this is relevant :ermm:

are you asking me if suicide is good? That's a different thread.
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Deleted User
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yes well i was reading this boring boring discussion CONFUSED BORING PEOPLE TALKING and decided on excercising my free will :)

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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@conradw:

I see no reason to suppose that we have a free will.

And if you ask, I see no reason to suppose that the world is deterministic either ;)

Furthermore, I see no reason to suppose that the two are mutually exclusive :D
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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conradw
Goliath
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do you see any reason to the contrary? That we don't have free will, or that the world isn't deterministic?
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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And ARAZEC, thanx for the really interesting "boring" link!

It's like reading a discussion between Albert Einstein and Niels Bohr, with Cliff Walker being Einstein and Wayland Dong being Bohr. I think this comparison is rather apt, as Walker seems to be searching for an elusive "randomness" in much the same way that Einstein was hunting for the "hidden variable", and both of them were in my mind ignore the fact that most of the evidence do not point their way.

They are making the most basic, but notorious to ALL humans (even the really smart ones, and also me), mistake of putting emotion before reason when searching for the truth. Fortunately there are people like Wayland and Bohr who can see the beauty of reality even after it's true nature is revealed.

Oh, and the reason why it's "boring" is of course because they agree on basically everything (except the "randomness"), so the discussion is mostly for their own clarification and amusement.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@conradw: I think ARAZEC's link is quite apt for explaining what I mean. I reject "determinism" in the sense that on the basis of our present theories I don't it's theoretically possible to determine the future outcome of every single event (hesienberg's uncertainty-principle).

However, the fact that we cannot determine the future does not have to mean that there is free will.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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conradw
Goliath
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sorry, but i havent the patience nor the inclination to read all of that.
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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Don't worry, you can just reply to my posts. They can stand for themselves :)
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Midst Of Vampy
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Barabbas
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People have some free will in some cases. We don't get freedom of speech, and the politicians want us to think that our votes count, but they really don't. I guess we DO have free will, in a way :)
TIMEY-WHIMEY SKITTLES!
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Luemas
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DELICIOUS!
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If no one voted.. then no one would care.
And when no one cares... the greater evil rises.
He who ignores evil commits the greater evil.

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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably.
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Midst Of Vampy
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Barabbas
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ah, we vote, but our votes don't count.
TIMEY-WHIMEY SKITTLES!
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Luemas
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DELICIOUS!
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You mean how Politicians usually vote for whatever their parties voting, even if they ran saying they wouldn't?
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably.
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Midst Of Vampy
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Barabbas
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no we vote, and they say it matters, but then they completely ignore our votes.
TIMEY-WHIMEY SKITTLES!
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