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Free Will; A good or bad idea?
Topic Started: 7 Jan 2010, 09:42 AM (1,807 Views)
Luemas
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Why is the universe unchangeable you ask?

It's sort of, an extension of the grandfather paradox.

You know, go back in time, kill your grandfather before your father is born, can you do it?

The answer is no, because you either you wouldn't be alive to kill your grandfather, or you do kill your grandfather, and the universe implodes on itself.
You can't change the past, (Why the universe HASN'T imploded in on itself.) Circular logic. If you change the past, you change the future.
If you can't change the past, you can't change the future.

Think about that.
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Midst Of Vampy
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Barabbas
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Ah, but simply posting this is changing the future. I could have not posted and someone else would have taken my place for this. Also, how do we know that this isn't all just some game and the universe has imploded on itself, and this is what it's become? This could be a universe that was changed and ended up being like this. :)
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Concolor
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Actually, you don't have to change the past to change the future. You can simply change the present, or even the future.

You say you know that you can't kill your own grandfather before you were born, but I sincerely doubt that you have checked :D How do you know that you do not simply continue on living?
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Luemas
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Simple.
The universe hasn't imploded in itself.

Also, we all know that technology is at a point where it is impossible to even attempt to kill our grandfather in the past.

Also Vampira, regardless of wether not you could have posted that, you did.
Because you have, it's set in stone.

The idea is, what happened in the past is bound to happen. To help explain things here is a convenient timeline

<-Paster past---Past---Present--Future--Futurer->

If the actions of the Paster Past change the past, which is the Paster's Past Future, then whatever happened in the paster past had to have happened, in order for the past to happen.

The same idea runs with the Future and Futurer.

Also, I have said Past and future way too many times in this post.
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Midst Of Vampy
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yeah, but the paster past could have ended up differently and so could have the futurer if someone else did something different. So if someone had done something different from what they were supposed to do, they could change the future and the present or past for us if it's already happened. There are many different things you could do to change what is going to happen in the future. :)
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Luemas
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Nope. Sorry.

You can't change the past.
Hence the Grandfather Paradox.

Can't change the past.
If you compare the past and the present, it's no different from comparing the present and the future.

Past is set in stone.
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Ah, you can change the past if it's a future. If I was going to do something like accidentally run over someone, that would be changing the future for his family, or his friends, and me because I ran over him, but then I would have changed the future which would now be the past.
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Midst Of Vampy
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Barabbas
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A better example would be this.

If I edited this post, it would be changing the past, or rather what I said, because Someone, lets say Conc. could come along and see my edited post, and not know what the original was, therefor, the original wouldn't be the past for him, the edited would be, and the original would not be the past for him because he wouldn't know. :)
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Luemas
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Ah, but that's assuming the past can be changed, and as I have proved, it can not.

Now you can change one's perception of the past, but that does not change it.
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Barabbas
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But it does change the past, for that person, does it not?
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Luemas
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Nope!

Changing your post would be like changing the text in a history book.

It would be like saying, instead of John Wilkes Booth killing Abraham Lincoln, Colonel Mustard did with the candlestick in the ballroom.

Just because you change it doesn't mean you change the past.
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GuitarShredz
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You guys are so- I mean you guy...and girl are confusing me. :blink:
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Concolor
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@Lue: You did not prove that the past is set in stone, you merely claimed it :D

What if the event of going back in time would set events off on an alternate timeline? Hence killing your own grandpa would not affect you since you continue on a new, parallel timeline. Or what if killing your grandpa simply makes you disappear. Everyone around you and your gramps are amazed, but that's also all the consequences it has?
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Luemas
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I proved the past was unchangeable because we don't have the technology to change it.

You can't go back in time, because we can't acheive faster than light travel.
(If it's even possible.)
Also, alternative universes do not affect this one, therefore, this universe is still the same.
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Barabbas
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Did you know that when you look at a planet, you're looking at what it looked like a hundred years ago?

Just because we don't have the technology now, doesn't mean we won't sometime in the future.
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