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Disscusion of the Bible Reading Topic
Topic Started: 24 Jan 2010, 08:23 AM (400 Views)
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Barabbas
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This is for discussions relevant to the Bible Reading Topic. It is too disturbing to the reading process to have discussions in that thread, so we'll keep them here.
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC:
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Had the Bible been a human production, had it been written by uninspired historians, the defects of its leading characters would have been ignored
Have you ever read another book than the Bible? defects are quite abundant. Besides, where does the Bible say that these are defects? The only thing I've ever read about Noah in the Bible is that he was a just and righteous man. Nowhere does it say that these acts were bad. That is your interpretation.

In fact, you are reading this verse as if you were an atheist. You are taking your own, human morals and judging the acts of Noah based upon them. Why do you not simple read the verse as it is and take you instructions from the Bible itself, which does in no way label the acts of Noah as bad?
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we see the utter and total depravity of human nature
If man is completely unable to be anything other than deprived, why did God go through all the trouble of "cleansing" the earth by a flood. He must have known that it would take about a week before everything went south again, did he do it for the lulz? And why did he create man like that in the first place? Why not leave a small chance that man could improve?
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It is surely significant and designed as a solemn warning that the first time wine is referred to in the Scriptures it is found associated with drunkenness, shame and a curse
Once again, the Bible does in no way say that this is bad. That's your imposed morals. Since Noah is described as a righteous man, this could just as easily be interpreted as "do it like this". But you do not interpret it that way, because you have morals which are independent of the Bible that allows you to ignore the interpretations that would be immoral according to your human morals.
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Noah’s fall utters a solemn warning to every servant of God
No. All it says is "Noah did this, and then he lived on for 300 more years". As far as I remember, the Bible often said that people who do good are "blessed with a long life". 300 more years is a pretty long life. He must have done awfully good.
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For a child to expose and sneer at his parent’s fall was wickedness of the worst kind, and evidenced a heart thoroughly depraved
No! That is wrong! It is much worse to rape a million babies than to say "look, that guy is raping a million babies." This is blatantly obvious to every moral individual. Also, why on earth do you think Ham was sneering? It said: "Ham, the father of Canaan, saw that his father was naked and told his two brothers who were outside the tent". I can find no better way to interpret this than as Ham running out and asking his brothers to help him cover their father. Which is a good thing. It helps him being less naked.
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In the curse passed upon Canaan we find an exceedingly solemn instance of the sins of the fathers being visited upon the children. In this day of human pride and skepticism, when everything is questioned and challenged, men have dared to criticize the ethics of this hereditary law. It has been termed unmerciful and unjust.
I completely agree with this. According to the scripture. Ham, even if we assume he did something wrong, is not punished at all! The only one punished is his son, who had nothing to do with anything! Consider this for a while and then tell me that your sense of morality is not troubled by this at least one bit :o
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The humble believer does not attempt to pry into things which are too deep for him, it is enough for him that the thrice holy God has instituted this law and therefore he knows it is a righteous one whether he can see the justice of it or no.
:blink: This is the single most frightening sentence I have ever read in this entire forum. This is the reason why I think religions and ideologies can be extremely dangerous. This statement is encouraging blind obedience, to not ask questions when something goes against everything you know is right and just. It is this kind of thinking that allowed certain crusaders to say "Kill them all, let God sort them out!". It is this kind of thinking that allows young men to be manipulated into killing themselves in suicide-bombings. It is simply wrong, and we all know it.
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By tracing the history of Ham’s other sons it becomes evident that the scope of Noah’s prophecy reached beyond Canaan.
This is just silly. I know you did not write this part, ARAZEC, because I know you would never write something as dumb as this. Firstly, it's not really impressive to write a prophecy in a book, and have it come true a few chapters later. Moreover, this is apparently an example that whoever wrote this book this NOT manage to put in a correct fulfillment of the prophecy (as more sons than Canaan are struck with misfortune). Therefore one adds the completely unwarranted interpretation that the curse was for all, or a select group, of Ham's sons. If we are to allow such frivolous interpretation of every verse in the Bible, the book can basically be interpreted to say just about anything.
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yay ! a thread for the bible reading topic !

thanks for your thoughts :thumbs:
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I'll just keep venting in off in here as the issues arise in the Bible reading thread. Right now we're in Genesis somewhere. Noah, the man who is so righteous that God decided to genocide everyone else in order to start a new world based on Noah and his family, has just finished getting drunk and naked and he has also finished judging one of his sons (and all his descendants) to slavery. Then this passage comes:
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4-5 The sons of Javan: Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim, Rodanim. The seafaring peoples developed from these, each in its own place by family, each with its own language.
Funny. And here I was thinking that everyone spoke the same language until the little episode with the tower of Babel, and that this was one of the major points of the story about the tower of Babel. :D
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And then we have this one:
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24-25 Arphaxad had Shelah and Shelah had Eber. Eber had two sons, Peleg (so named because in his days the human race divided) and Joktan.
What exactly did the human race divide into? Two different races? If so, which one are we and what happened to the other one?
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Luemas
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OBJECTION!

Peleg... let's see what it means in hebrew...

And it means divided.
So it doesn't say what. But my version of the bible, (no offense Arazec) says
25 Two sons were born to Eber:
One was named Peleg, [l] because in his time the earth was divided; his brother was named Joktan.

The Earth was divided.
Either that means theres a second earth out there, OR! Think about this. The land mass known as Pangea. Remember, the water was gathered to one place, and dry land appeared.
And it says in the flood, that the wells of the deep were opened up. Whats not to say water wasn't underneath Pangea, and caused ensuing cracks, gigantic fault lines that eventually became our continents?
And as for the languages, Nimrod built the tower of Babel. Look:
8 Cush was the father [d] of Nimrod, who grew to be a mighty warrior on the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD; that is why it is said, "Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the LORD." 10 The first centers of his kingdom were Babylon, Erech, Akkad and Calneh, in [e] Shinar. [f]

Babel, Babylon, do you see the connection?
And this is... Two generations in.
The language division wasn't until 3 generations in!

Therefore, I win :D
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@concolor

i am posting up whats called the "Message Bible" are you familiar with it?

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