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Is the world getting better or worse?
Topic Started: 8 May 2010, 11:53 AM (1,696 Views)
Concolor
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Barabbas
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In Norway we refuse to bow down to the Roman empire! Saturday is Laurdag (Laundry-day)! (Old spelling)
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Luemas
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DELICIOUS!
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Well, I do all my laundry on Monday. What does that make me?
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably.
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conradw
Goliath
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I do laundry when the pile gets too large to walk around. What does that make me?
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Luemas
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DELICIOUS!
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A procrastinator/Budgeteer?

Whatever saves money...
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably.
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conradw
Goliath
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i don't have to pay for laundry at my accommodation. :)
procrastinator is more likely to be true
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conradw
Goliath
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After seeing the outcome of this poll to be 50-50% I'd like to share something that I have seen with you guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f9R9MtkpqM

if its too long for you, he talks about different points of view based on different world views, which he bases on our sense of family values (starting mostly at the 8:00 minutes, but he only really gets to the point at about 14:00). He contrasts the more conservative, authoritarian family to the more progressive, nuturing family. (he talks about the topic of nuturing family at about 25:20)

He supposes that it's part of this that leads to much of the misunderstanding between us in our perspective. This is relevant because it argues that the difference in our world views isn't that we see the world as getting better or worse, but in fact the way we see the family.

Obviously, he does take a liberal point of view, and is a bit disparaging of conservative values, but I honestly think he's trying to be balanced and clear about it. Also, he's American, speaking to to other Americans so he's bound to take a particularly American belief.
What do you guys think of Lakoff's perspective? If you think he's wrong, or missed the point, let me know.
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Deleted User
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that makes you a poor bastard
and before you move to report me you can call an australian supreme court judge a wanker in court and not be in contempt :)

moving along........"with all the progress made so far" is being sarcastic

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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@conradw: I think his talk was really interesting and in many ways an eye-opener. I think the family-analogy is a useful image for explaining difference between the way of thinking that separates many conservatives from many liberals. I wouldn't count this as the only, or ultimate description though as he also points out himself that many don't fall strictly into any one of the categories, and some may have a strong father-model, yet still share liberal values politically (I think he's stretching it a bit when he tries to use both models at the same time).
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Afalstein
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Mountain Gnome
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Worse. It's simply entropy, things fall apart as time moves on. Even most secular philosophers have given up on the world getting better, most think we can never get anywhere.
"Evil Triumphs when Good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
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conradw
Goliath
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Simple Entropy. But the world isn't a closed system. We get buckets of energy, most of which isn't even used.

Can you give any examples? I've never heard any secular philosophers talk about this point - religious people talk about it all the time though.
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Afalstein
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Mountain Gnome
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Oh, Neitzche said the world was going crazy, Foucault thought that human societies were slowly becoming more and more dominated, Hobbes considered man little better than an animal (though he might be old enough to be considered religious), Bakhtin felt the world was falling apart. Take your pick.

There ARE optimistic philosophers, but they tend to be wrong. Jefferson felt that once allowed complete freedom, there was nothing the common man could not do. And then there was the French Revolution. Marx felt that if compelled, people would unite in love of a common society and work for the collective good. And then there was the Soviet Union.

Outside of philosophers, there's also writers. Joseph Conrad considered humanity empty and meaningless, with society just a pretense. H.G. Wells, an agnostic, had a very low opinion of mankind's abilities and tendencies. The atheist Aldous Huxley Jr. wrote a VERY scathing portrayal of humanity and society in "Brave New World." And those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
"Evil Triumphs when Good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
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Deleted User
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and just imagine if we could think with our entire head !
if past behaviour is a predictor of future behaviour then lucky we are limited to the portion we use :)

just think if evoulution is dependant on the envoirment it competes in - in this change toward a global society just what will the hungary do to survive? and what will the populations whose lives involve well not much :ermm: exercise do to adapt?

:unsure:
:unsure:

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Luemas
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If you want to get biblical, look at Lamentations.
But yeah. I like Alf. He's a good historian/book nerd.

Which is only a treatment I bestow with highest respect.
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably.
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conradw
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Afalstein
26 May 2010, 04:07 PM
OThe atheist Aldous Huxley Jr. wrote a VERY scathing portrayal of humanity and society in "Brave New World."
You clearly have no understanding of Huxley's work. Brave New World is to serve as a warning. Island is to serve as an aspiration. He in no way suggests that mankind is damned to the world of Brave New World.

Jefferson's idea of a government has served as an extremely successful model for nations all around the world, especially in adopting secular morals and ideals, fair and tolerant societies, and governments ruling only at the behest of the people. Marx similarly showed that the wealthy have no intrinsic right to rule, and that all people regardless of their birth are to be afforded dignity, education, care, and support: again he, like Jefferson, argues rulers (this time economic rather than political) are to rule at the behest of the workers.

And as for being ultimately wrong, I'm sure Concolor will be able to tell you what happens to a nation, such as Norway, which has both a strong socialist and libertarian tradition - some of the highest living standards in the world.
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@conradw: Yes I would, but now you stole my point. You point stealer you.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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