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| I don't get it | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 28 Jun 2010, 02:48 PM (5,632 Views) | |
| Concolor | 15 Feb 2011, 05:19 PM Post #166 |
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Barabbas
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Ah, see I'm used to those words meaning two different things: Belief (to Concolor): something believed; an opinion or conviction. Regardless of the reasons for holding that belief Faith (to Concolor): A belief held without or contrary to evidence. So to me, faith is a special type of belief. This probably explains some of the confusion. This does of course not mean that my use of the words is the only "correct" one, but it's useful for us to know what we mean by different words. The way I see it, different types of beliefs are very different in how justified they are. Let me give you an example of two beliefs where I think one is sound and the other is not: 1. The sun will rise tomorrow 2. There's a rubber band inside your box 1) Why would I think the sun will rise tomorrow? Well, besides the fact that the sun has risen every day in my life and I can find historical records saying that the sun has risen for pretty much every day in human record, I have something much more reliable at hand: I can measure the movement of the earth relative to the sun for several days and calculate the physics that affect the earth in it's motions. From this i can calculate when and how the sun will rise for several days, and verify by observing the sunrise each day to confirm or correct my calculations, until I finally make the prediction that the sun will rise the next day. The belief is supported by evidence. 2) Why would I think there's a rubber band inside your box? No reason at all. I have no way of knowing what is inside your box. In fact, I do not even know if you have a box. For all I know the box could have been something you made up to make a point. Such a belief would not be supported by anything. There could very well be a rubber band inside the box, but there are also nearly an infinite number of other possibilities and I have no way of knowing what it could be. Is it absolutely certain that the sun will rise tomorrow? No, that's why it's a belief and not an absolute truth. I've rested my prediction on the assumption that the laws of physics will not break down tomorrow. Again, that's a well supported belief, but not an absolute certainty. Still, I think my belief that the sun will rise tomorrow is a lot more justified than a belief that there is a rubber band inside your box. I call it the difference between justified belief and faith, but what do you call it? Edited by Concolor, 15 Feb 2011, 05:23 PM.
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| redang2424 | 15 Feb 2011, 06:27 PM Post #167 |
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Crab King
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Ahhh, yes but the laws of physics DONT have to break down for the sun not to rise tomorrow..... You say faith is a special type of belief, I say belief is a result of faith. In other words faith -----> belief. I believe that I can walk because my body allows me to do so. Then I get hit by a car and the doctors tell me I have a less then 10% chance of even moving again. But my faith tells me I have the will power to get back up and walk again... Some people would have BELIEVED that the odds were in favor of me never walking again, but they had faith I would never give up...... It is my faith that ALLOWS me to believe in God and the holy spirit and that what comes from his truth and rightousness.... |
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| redang2424 | 15 Feb 2011, 07:25 PM Post #168 |
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Crab King
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I understand having your own interpritation of each word.... But there is some danger in that.... For instance when the Bible uses each word what do they mean????? Whats the purpose of each word used in the bible and their meaning.... That is why it is important to have on understanding of what any given word should mean.... |
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| Afalstein | 15 Feb 2011, 08:30 PM Post #169 |
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Mountain Gnome
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Okay... you may need to qualify that statement for me. I more hold that believing in nothing is realistically impossible. I can't quite understand how the theoretical position of believing nothing is actually a belief in something. @Concolor I actually don't see a lot of difference between the two. Like the sunrise, my faith in God is corroborated to me by historical records, scientific data, and personal observation. The one is, I will grant you, more controversial than the other, but I consider both to be justified forms of faith. |
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"Evil Triumphs when Good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke | |
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| redang2424 | 15 Feb 2011, 09:28 PM Post #170 |
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Crab King
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Lol, afal we mean the same thing for sure..... My point is that for someone to believe in nothing (note how you had to believe to not believe) is to believe in something... Thus making it impossible to do lol.... Sry was being perhaps too cute with words |
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| Concolor | 16 Feb 2011, 05:52 AM Post #171 |
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Barabbas
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@Afalstein: you made that jump too early ![]() You see, you didn't really adress the box itself, you made the assumption (correctly) that to me the belief in a spesific deity would be like believing in one particular content of the box. But you forgot that that is not how YOU see it, and so you did not adress my point itself but jumped ahead and thereby missing my main argument. You see, if I understand correctly, you see your belief in the God of the Bible as nearly as well grounded as my belief in the sunrise. I.e. Your belief does not require "faith" the way I defined it earlier, it is merely the logical conclusion of the evidence you have found. In that respect you and I are in perfect agreement, we simply disagree on the evidence. But what do you think about the belief that there is a rubber band inside the box? |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Concolor | 16 Feb 2011, 05:55 AM Post #172 |
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Barabbas
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@Redang: I agree that it is really important to be clear about what words mean. So what would you call the difference between believing that the sun will rise and believing in the rubber band inside the box? And do you agree that there is a difference? |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Deleted User | 16 Feb 2011, 06:55 AM Post #173 |
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Though the definition of Faith in the dictionary says that we dont need evidence to have faith it just so happens that Christians do happen to have evidence of our Faith. Just because evidence exsists does not mean evidence is required. Thats part of why Athiesim is classed as a religion in America. There is no evidence that disproves the exsistence of God is there? It takes faith to beleive there is no proof of a God anyway...srry again oppsy ! silly me wrong topic The Bible describes faith like this ......(heres a few translations of the same verse) "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." "Now faith is the reality of things being hoped for, the proof of things not being seen." "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." The evidence is in the Faith from which we claim proof Now......... regardless of the amount of faith you poscess if you put faith into the wrong things its useless much like having faith in..........rubber bands being in a box |
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| redang2424 | 16 Feb 2011, 01:35 PM Post #174 |
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Crab King
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@araz please qoute verse you're using @conc there is one point I would like to find out before i answer, why do you think theres a rubber band in the box? are u saying i told you or are u saying you're just guessing? sorry but its kinda important on how i answer =( |
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| Deleted User | 16 Feb 2011, 06:00 PM Post #175 |
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Hebrews....11.....waaaa !!! now i forget
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| Concolor | 16 Feb 2011, 06:31 PM Post #176 |
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Barabbas
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@redang: Very interesting that you should ask that question. Let's start with the situation that I, based on your mention on the box and nothing else, believes there is a rubber band in it. Let's say for now that you have not made any statements about the contents of your box. |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| redang2424 | 16 Feb 2011, 09:28 PM Post #177 |
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Crab King
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dude now i need to see the box lol, but i digress.... I would say that it would be highly unlikely that you could make a beliefe about the sun coming up always off observation and then based on nothing you guess that there is a rubber band in the box. Your faith is what drives you to come to certain decisions and you believe certain things based on those decisions. I know this isnt the answer you're looking for but its all I have to be honest. I would say that faith makes us question beliefs. God wants us to KNOW him, and to know him you must be based in the truth of the word. If your beliefs are made just off a hunch with no connection to your morals or core values I would argue that your faith isn't very roch strong at that time. But if your faith is strongly grounded then your beliefs will all come from the same place. My faith is completely in God the Father. I holy trust in Him. As such I believe in predestination, but this is gonna rock some people when I say this, I struggle with pre destination an find my self wanting to believe in free will. But my faith allows me to know that there are probably some things about God I will never understand... And although sometimes I find this frustrating, the truth of the matter is that its a probably a good thing I dont understand everything about God.... I mean he's all powerful and knowing, and amazing. I dont deserve what he has given me, to be honest I probably would have never forgiven me for my sins, but thats what makes God, well God lol.... He's amazing, I'm his son, and I know even when I stumble he's there for me.... I know this may be too back in the day for you youngins but imma go listen to some old school dc talk now and listen to "what if i stumble" (i highly suggest it for you cool cats out there bwahahahaha)... See no matter what happens if I keep my faith in God, my beliefs will be moral and true.... and thats alright with me! |
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| Midst Of Vampy | 16 Feb 2011, 10:46 PM Post #178 |
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Barabbas
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Hey Redang! ![]() Welcome to the forum! I am too tired to read all that right now so I'm just gonna leave it at that. ![]() |
| TIMEY-WHIMEY SKITTLES! | |
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| Concolor | 17 Feb 2011, 03:23 PM Post #179 |
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Barabbas
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@Redang: I must admit that the more you use the word "faith" the less I understand what you mean by it. But do you agree that my belief that the sun will rise tomorrow is more justified, than the belief that there is a rubber band inside the box? |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| redang2424 | 17 Feb 2011, 05:22 PM Post #180 |
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Crab King
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1 corinthians 2 (all of it).... thats faith explained use NASB..... most acurate translation Edited by redang2424, 17 Feb 2011, 05:22 PM.
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wrong topic
6:44 PM Jul 10