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I don't get it
Topic Started: 28 Jun 2010, 02:48 PM (5,631 Views)
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Barabbas
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@redang: thank you, but the way I read that passage it seems to me to set up a clear distinction between "faith" and "human wisdom" (which I would call "justified belief"), in the same manner as I explained earlier. I do not, however, see that this faith is in any way related to believing in sunrises or the ability to walk.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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redang2424
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Crab King
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How about walking by faith???? (cute huh lol).... But once I understand some of what God has taught me which I was allowed to do because of my faith in him, I realize that I walk because it is his will that I walk... First you have to have faith in something, that something allows you to have beliefs in it as a result.... For example, I have faith that I can walk, I then walk, because I walked, I believe I can walk...
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Barabbas
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but to belive that a rock will fall when I drop it, or that the sun will rise tomorrow, all I need is "human wisdom". If not, then what is this "human wisdom" that your verse describes?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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redang2424
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Well I would disagree that "all you need is human wisdom"..... You would need faith that in whatever brought you to that human wisdom was correct..... Faith can be placed in many things, and as a result many things can be believed in (this human wisdom). BUT it is only faith grounded in God that can lead to belief of the truth.
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Barabbas
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But the very verse you pointed me to said that human wisdom and faith are oppositions. I cannot see how the definition of faith in the verse is the same as the definition of faith you use in your posts?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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redang2424
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Human wisdom can still derive truths that are in fact true by merely making worldly observations, God's truth is that absalute.... BUT no matter how hard they try they will never understand the truth because they are not grounded in God's truth. They are grounded in the world, and the world is of sin, sin by the very definition is to be without God..... Thus faith from God, and human wisdom are opposite.....
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Barabbas
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ah, now we're getting somewhere!

You differentiate between "faith from God" and "human wisdom". Now I understand a bit more what you mean :)

Now let's see where we can fit the rubber band in the box into this. The belief that the box has a rubber band in it is not "human wisdom" as it is not based upon observations of the world (I don't even know if you have a box). Also, assuming that it is not God who says there is a rubber band, it is not "faith from God" either. So what do we call it? My preference would be "unjustified belief", but what would you call it?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Concolor cunning conciously crafting cumbersome conundrums
calculating clear cases,coming close cleverly combining clues...
catching christians !
*cough,cough*
casual correlations
combining carefull crossreferences
caution !!!! :P
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Barabbas
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ARAZEC's alliteration, although an awesome array affirming ARAZEC's aptitude, absents aptness after advanced analysis -and also askewly amisses atheists ;)
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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:D :D :D

Concolor ! Couragously carrying conflict !
Controling careless comments...
Carefull ! casualy contemplating causing confusion
Could cause commotion...
'cause cowards cuss Christs communion :)





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Barabbas
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Amiable ARAZEC :D Again, amazing artwork! Actually, ardent analysis' are accepted as accurate and admirable :)
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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redang2424
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Conc, are we not all human???? Because if we all are humans then any belief made is a human belief no???? (unless little green men told you about the rubber band...)
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Barabbas
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human belief, yes. Human wisdom, no.

The verse you showed me contrasted beliefs we get from observing the world (human wisdom) with beliefs we get from God (faith from God). Yet it does not mention beliefs that neither comes from observational evidence nor from God, such as the belief that the box contains a rubber band.

My question to you is how would you label such a belief?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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redang2424
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human belief, or the holy spirit, or lieing take your pick
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Barabbas
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ah, well lying is not really a belief, more a method for making someone believe something which is not true.

Now if we group the holy trinity (father, son and holy spirit) in to one unity and call it "God". We now have three different types of belief:

- Human wisdom: Based on observations of the world.
- Human belief: Not based on observations of the world, and not from God.
- Faith from God: From the father, son or holy spirit.

What do you think of these groups? Is there some type of belief that would not fall into one of these groups?

Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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