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| I don't get it | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 28 Jun 2010, 02:48 PM (5,637 Views) | |
| Midst Of Vampy | 10 Aug 2010, 08:35 PM Post #91 |
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Barabbas
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Yes, it's a good thing. And since when are all these posts so long?
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| TIMEY-WHIMEY SKITTLES! | |
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| Zeo | 11 Aug 2010, 04:23 AM Post #92 |
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You see that shadow in the distance?
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They are long because you are asking theologin questions. in all truth it is so simple to explain yet.....you can never quite grasp it. Here is my reasoning. Can you show me love give it to me hold it out in your hand and pass it here.....oh you can't.. well love does not exist then, and then none of your other emotions would either. so then how do you know it exists? why did we worry about cheesebug? because we love her! oh but you can not show me that love and physically pass it too me so we must just be trying to protect natural order or some other %$&$# of scientific $%&&#(^%%&!!%# I am sorry But as it pans out if science was right then why can we feel? are our emotions just some brain function of endothments or some primal impulse? no we feel for greater purpose our emotions save us from great harm and used wrong can cause great harm. Why do you think robots and all robot prototypes can not feel? oh sure scientists put response emotions in robots but they only copied the things from a human to a portable disk and downloaded things like (if you are praised then smile and say thank you) why is it humans radiate warmth in emotions because we have souls! that alone destroys the evolution theory the thing is if we came from an ape then why is it we are not doing the simple things an ape can do like sense danger from a storm or threatening behavior from another animal? in fact why is it we feel guilt if someone we love gets hurt even if the reasons are just? an ape would rip it's opponent to shreds if it needed to with little or no remorse and if one of the apes from the group threatens another ape or does not behave right then they are killed or thrown out of the group left to die. Why do we not do that to every disabled or mental or retarded person? if we still had the ape emotions then we would be doing that. and evidently emotions can not evolve so the conclusion is reasonable......all beings were created for their own species we were all made separate and wonderful in all our own ways. so we can indeed conclude that there was a creator. but please don't take my word for it. go on let's go back to the jungle....lets try to survive lets put our "humanity" and "emotions" behind us. after all they must just be illusions they can not be real if we are just evolved apes why do we put ourselves ahead of them let's all strip naked and run wild! oh you can't? why not? oh are you ashamed? don't worry shame does not exist! in fact while I am on a role here why do we put ourselves above animals if we are only primates? lets lock ourselves up in zoos or free all the animals! why because we are above them not as abusers but as friends sharing God's bounty so let us all share in God's gifts. We can not hold God i our hand and pass him too you. It is just like love. we show it we feel it we believe in it This is why believers have lasted for so long. we are not just grasping for thin air we believe something solid and real. just as you believe in love and joy and sadness we Believe in God we can not show him in physical form but we can show him in goodwill in Kindness charity love and forgiveness. God shines through people like love shines in a married couple, they married because love is possible so Now I ask you. if love and all other emotions are possible why can God not be? |
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| Concolor | 11 Aug 2010, 03:38 PM Post #93 |
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Barabbas
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@Vampira: The long posts come from addressing multiple points in every post. As you can see, each individual argument is rather short, but since all these issues are discussed in parallel that adds up to pretty long posts. |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Concolor | 11 Aug 2010, 04:54 PM Post #94 |
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Barabbas
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@Zeo: Hey Zeo! Thanx for joining the debate I disagree. Seeing things and holding them in your hand are not essential for things to exist. I can't hold light in my hands, yet it exists. I can neither see nor hold in my hands the magma inside the earth, but it also exists. All we need to say that something exists is enough objective evidence. Take emotions (like love) as an example. When I feel something, my heartbeat changes, perspiration, breathing, pupil-dilations etc. all indicate what emotion I'm feeling. Brain-scans will show different activities in my brain, blood samples will show different hormone-concentrations. My actions towards people I have special feelings about will often be different depending on which feelings I have for them. All these are evidence showing that I'm having a particular emotion. In fact, every time you look at someone and understand if they are scared or happy, your mind is observing their behavior and expression and comparing this with previous experience with the instant result of you knowing what they feel. We have good reasons to say that emotions are real. That doesn't mean that what the emotion points to is real. I can see something in the dark and be very afraid, but then it turns out it was just my sock. Now the feeling is still absolutely real, no one can deny that I really was afraid. But the source of the feeling (the creature I was afraid would attack me) was still not real. I can also imagine that I am in a relationship with a girl, and I can get the warm and fuzzy feeling you get from being in a relationship where you both love each other very much. The feeling is real, even if it only lasts the short few moments where you manage to forget what the world is really like and really believe for a minute or two that you are together with this girl. But the source of the feeling, the relationship, is not real. In fact the girl does not even have to be a real girl, perhaps she is a character from a book, or a movie. Likevise, the feeling of experiencing or being close to Gods, or demons, ghosts, angels, unicorns etc. can be absolutely real, but that is not in any way evidence that the source of the feeling is real. You seem to be cursing a lot when talking about science. Does the scientific method make you angry? That is very interesting. What thing about science is it that makes you angry? As I explained, the results we get by using the scientific method are in perfect agreement with the fact that we have feelings. Why are you saying "just"? Is a railroad-track "just" a long piece of metal? Well, it is a long piece of metal, but it is also the basis for transporting people over large distances without polluting as much as a car. It is also the reason why Johnny met Lisa, because they sat on the same train, and this particular part of the track had a slight bump in it, so Lisa lost her book and Johnny picked it up for her. It is still a piece of metal, but that is no reason to say that it's "just" a piece of metal. So maybe emotions is a function of biological chemistry in our bodies, but we don't have to think of them as "just" that. They are the glue that binds two lovers together even though they are on opposite sides of the planet. They are the force that helps a mother save her child from a blazing house fire. Unfortunately, they are also the reason why some humans inflict pain and torture on each other or even themselves. Sure they may be a function of biological chemistry in our bodies, but that is no reason to say that they're "just" that. Because their construction does not allow them to have emotions. They are controlled by circuit-boards, not biological chemistry. Interesting. What is a soul? Are you saying that you don't understand that danger is approaching when a storm is coming? And that you don't understand that a barking dog is threatening you? Because I have these special ape-powers! And I think that many other people do too. I don't know. How is this related to the question at hand? You might be shocked to learn this, but in some nations (like the USA and Iran) people who really don't behave right can get a death penalty = get killed. Just like the monkeys do. And if you don't think humans are capable of ripping our opponents to shreds with little or no remorse, you have not studied any wars, or the Roman Empire for that matter. We do. All the time. In many parts of the world these people are killed even as infants. Even in Norway, in the viking days, disabled kids were put out into the woods. It is horrible, but some times we humans are horrible. yup. Not only apes though, loads of animals behave like this. Why cannot emotions evolve? I agree that we are all unique and wonderful, but variation is an essential part of the evolutionary process, and not in any way incompatible with it. In fact, if we were all identical there would be no evolution. On what basis? You mean just like all those people in the world who live in the jungle every day? It seems to work quite well... I don't thing you can put humanity or emotions behind you. Unless you are a psychopath, and they're not very nice. Yes they can. Yeah, like on a nudist beach Sure I can! Nope, I have recieved several compliments while being naked. I think my body is pretty cool Sure it does, I've been ashamed several times. I agree, it makes no sense to put ourselves above other animals. Each animal deserves respect in it's own right. I think we should free those poor animals who are locked up for no good reason! I'm with ya Zeo! Friends are not above other friends. Friends are equals. Except that love is an emotion, but God is a supernatural entity. And so they are not similar at all. Are you saying that every belief is true? Are the hindu's right? UFO-believers? People who believe the earth is flat? Some of these beliefs are really old, does that make them more probable of being true? In my opinion you are not showing God, you are showing kindness, charity, love and forgiveness. These are independent of God. Because they have nothing to do with each other. Rocks are possible, but square circles are not. Gravity is possible, but building-sized ants are not. Love and other emotions are possible, but the God of the Bible is not. Other supernatural entities are possible, but not the one described in the Bible. |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Concolor | 11 Aug 2010, 05:12 PM Post #95 |
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC:Why do you say "comprehend"? I'm not understanding anything about the nature of the leprechauns, I'm just making up poor excuses for how the leprechauns are supposed to be able to be at the (nonexistent) "end" of the rainbow. Yes. In fact it is quite possible that I am just a brain in a vat somewhere, or a human battery in the movie "the Matrix", and this is all an illusion. But I have no way of testing that, so I cannot know if that is true or not. So I must stick to what I can use. And regardless of whether this is an illusion or not, the physical laws are coherent and so if I use them as a basis for predicting the results of different actions I have a greater chance of getting it right than if I don't. And so I will be more successful in this world whether it is real or an illusion. Actually, I think neuropsychology is doing quite well at mapping the connection between experience and cognitive functions. He's not banned from entry, he's just standing in a very long line of competing deities all so eager to enter that they are stuck in the doorway. Why? Okay, I propose "conscious" as in able to use the senses to gather and process the information (as in awake, not asleep). I propose "experience" as in registering an event with the senses and process the information. What am I, a paleontologist? Besides, don't you mean to ask "How do you think we evolved to have either"? That's great! So you're actually out there looking at rainbows and making people look for the pot of gold at the end? What results have you got so far? |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Midst Of Vampy | 12 Aug 2010, 01:51 PM Post #96 |
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Barabbas
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I agree, emotions do still exist, even if we can't physically HAVE that emotion. We can however, feel that emotion, which proves it does exist. Your light argument- very nice Concolor.
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| TIMEY-WHIMEY SKITTLES! | |
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| Concolor | 12 Aug 2010, 03:26 PM Post #97 |
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Barabbas
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Thanx Vamp And thanx for the backup
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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Luemas
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12 Aug 2010, 06:59 PM Post #98 |
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DELICIOUS!
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I blame emotions on chemicals in my brain. Because I can't see inside my brain, (My eyes don't work that way) They must therefore not exist. But wait, if I know chemicals cause them, then they must exist, but I can't see the chemicals. The case of the missing cause? And U are the only one who can solve it. Get it... Case... Cause... U. It's a pun. Hahah. |
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably. | |
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| Concolor | 12 Aug 2010, 11:58 PM Post #99 |
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Barabbas
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I don't get it (and that's a pun on the topic's title, by the way) |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Deleted User | 13 Aug 2010, 09:38 AM Post #100 |
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Deleted User
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Very logical approach Concolor -so you are saying that physical laws exsist? what makes a thing considered a law-isnt it that they are meant to be absoulute ?The laws of logic for instance that you so often remind me of (begging the question,circular reasoning Blah,blah) are conceptional -they are always true all the time they are absoulute regardless of space and time they arent properties of people cause then they would change person to person and they arent physical properties either-so you beleive in something thats supernatural not part of the physical universe and thats absoulute something that transends time and space-just like the God of the Bible is absoulute and transends space & time ~! You still breathe when you are unconscious so therefor your definition cant be accepted-think or google again "Experiance" defined as thought, feeling etc... are just programmed responses to stimuli ? Then an atheist cannot really claim to have meaning in life-So having an "experiance" cant just be what you get from a process -because you do that all the time WITHOUT processing anything in your thoughts its automatic.I propose "experiance" implies being affected by what one meets with and the reason we have "experiance" rather than just a programmed response is because we were created to have relationship with God. |
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Luemas
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13 Aug 2010, 11:14 AM Post #101 |
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DELICIOUS!
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I do admit I was rather abstract, so I shall attempt to be more straightforward. We disagree on existence of God, fair. Most likely, I couldn't find anything to sway you, and most likely the same for me. I know this, because we've been at it, a very long time. By a case for a cause, I implied there was a effect. The effect we can see. The effect is life, the universe, and everything. (Hitchhiker's Guide, or 42) We have a disagreement over the cause. You say natural forces. I say God. And I said, only you can solve the case. It's up to you to figure it out. God willing
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably. | |
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| dragonshardz | 13 Aug 2010, 03:31 PM Post #102 |
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Troll
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Vampira: RE: Your first post: "We're all mad here..." |
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I lurk a lot on this forum, and am very busy in real life, so don't be surprised if I take a couple days, or even weeks, to reply to your post or PM. GENERATION 11: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any other forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment. | |
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| Concolor | 13 Aug 2010, 06:40 PM Post #103 |
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Barabbas
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@Luemas: You speak of a cause, but the cause of what? Our universe, or all of existence? Or of matter? Or of time? The cause of the natural world, or the supernatural? How do you know that there needs to be a cause? Or if there does, how do you know that there is just one, perhaps each of the things I listed has their own separate cause? You see, the law of causality is a law that is based solely on observations within our universe (quite naturally as we have not found a way to get out of it, or even to know if there is an outside to get to), and so we cannot say whether such a law is valid for anything which is not inside the universe. Since the universe itself may not have been inside itself before it began, we cannot say if the universe itself needed a cause or not. Edited by Concolor, 13 Aug 2010, 06:41 PM.
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Deleted User | 14 Aug 2010, 05:55 AM Post #104 |
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you skipped answering my post Concolor - ? ? ?Do beleive in Logical absoulutes? |
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| Concolor | 14 Aug 2010, 11:31 AM Post #105 |
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Barabbas
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@Arzy: Didn't skip. Lue was shorter to answer. Time is of the essence. Will answer yours shortly. |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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you skipped answering my post Concolor - ? ? ?
6:44 PM Jul 10