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| Xenophobia; The Problem With Religion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 22 Aug 2010, 12:33 AM (788 Views) | |
| dragonshardz | 22 Aug 2010, 12:33 AM Post #1 |
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One thing I have always asked myself about Christianity, and monotheistic religions in general, is why people are so sure that their way is the only way to eternal life, or salvation, or whatever post-mortem reward is used as a psychological motivator for good behavior. I believe it all routes back to xenophobia, the unreasoning fear or hate of that which is different from oneself. Everyone experiences it to some degree: The popular kids who shun the nerds have a mild xenophobic reaction to people with glasses, which is expressed socially (i.e., ostracizing) and created by social pressures. It is my belief that the ONE AND ONLY WAY dogma is originally created in a religion by a religious leader who wants people to fear, mistrust, or hate those who do not follow the religion. Of course, that is not necessarily the reasoning used or believed by the religious leader, but that's what it boils down to. This has various effects, the most obvious being the Judeo-Christian-Muslim tensions. Fun fact: Before the advent of the monotheistic religion, the levels of religious persecution were much, much lower. ONE AND ONLY WAY is a core tenet of the three most major monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam). I also believe that is it fundamentally wrong in a moral and spiritual sense. Morally, it is not acceptable to me to persecute and/or ostracize people because they do not believe as I do. Spiritually, I think it would be unintelligent for a Creator being to give humans complete free will, and then remove that same latitude when it comes to immortality or whatever. What is your stance on this? Spoiler: click to toggle |
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I lurk a lot on this forum, and am very busy in real life, so don't be surprised if I take a couple days, or even weeks, to reply to your post or PM. GENERATION 11: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any other forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment. | |
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| cheesebug | 22 Aug 2010, 02:07 AM Post #2 |
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Ultimate Threadkiller
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Honestly, for me, I don't care what other people think. Let them believe whatever, I don't think anyone is wrong. Because the people with xenophobia only hate other beliefs because they are for certain that they are right. I believe nobody can ever really know what truth is, and so I embrace all opinions. BUT it can be vice versa! (get your confused face ready) Some people with xenophobia, in my most likely incorrect opinion, don't like other foreign beliefs because they aren't sure of theirs. If theyre having problems with their own religion, they probably don't want to mix with others. But it seems a bit rare. For the one and only way thing, youre right, its a huge part of the xenophobe society. i think people like saying that about their religion because it's like a support thing, like wearing a dodgers shirt to one of their games. |
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http://masochistic-goddess.tumblr.com/poetry "You will hear thunder and remember me, and think: she wanted storms." | |
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| Rose | 22 Aug 2010, 04:12 AM Post #3 |
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Zombie
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I have a religious friend, who'd still say her religion is the one and only- and that is since she is very religious, she believes God said some very specific things, and that people should follow it because that what he says, and since God doesn't exactly say the same thing in each religion, she doesn't accept other religions and other ways. I understand her but I don't believe the one and only attitude is right. But that's only since I am not religiouslike her- if I were, it would be very hard for me to accept the idea that all the religions are right, since these are different in some parts. But currently I respect any religion, since it's people's right to believe what they want- as long as they don't hurt and respect others. And if they all love God and others in their own special way- that can't be less than great. |
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| Concolor | 22 Aug 2010, 09:50 AM Post #4 |
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Barabbas
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@dragonshardz: I do of course agree with your thoughts on the ONE AND ONLY WAY (which is radically opposed to the scientific idea of the MOST USEFUL WE HAVE FOUND SO FAR). I also think your discussion is touching on something very central to the nature of the human psyche. Could it be that our feelings of belonging to a family, team or group, our need to protect those who are close to us, could be a double-edged sword in this sense? |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| millegas08 | 1 Nov 2010, 05:53 PM Post #5 |
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Horned Rogue
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xenophobia stems from fear, i think as to y Christians claim they r the only true religion, i refer u to these passages in Scripture, which we hold to be true, for they r spoken by God: Isaiah 45:19c - I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right. John 14:6 - Jesus answered, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 17:3 - "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." the last one is when JC is in the Garden of Gethsemane b4 he is betrayed by Judas and sent to the cross to die for everyone's sins |
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| Concolor | 2 Nov 2010, 12:00 PM Post #6 |
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Barabbas
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I think perhaps what the OP is asking is why you are so sure in the first place that this was spoken by God and not just written down by man? |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| rillegas08 | 2 Nov 2010, 06:02 PM Post #7 |
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Crab King
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No one can explain why one religion is better than the other in the hopes of persuading others to believe the same thing. For one thing, people are too strong-minded and aren't usually persuaded very easily. For another thing, there's no way we can prove that it's right. We can only rely on personal experience, letting others know what we experienced so, at the very least, they may understand why we believe it. On the other hand, if you can prove that a particular belief is definitively wrong, say with science, then that person is too hard-headed to believe in anything remotely ocntradictory with his beliefs. |
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I am Dan McNeely. www.immorgamsicsgambit.weebly.com www.armor-gamsees.wikispaces.com www.rilly08.deviantart.com "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall | |
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| millegas08 | 2 Nov 2010, 10:35 PM Post #8 |
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Horned Rogue
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and i answer with 2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful in teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness." if everything was indeed written by Man, then over 100 writers, living at different times, couldn't possibly have been consistent with everything in it. it had to have had Heavenly origin. when u write in a notebook, is it u or the pencil that's doing the writing? the pencil is the tool, just as Man was the tool that God used back then to write down wat he wanted to be said |
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| Afalstein | 14 Nov 2010, 09:57 PM Post #9 |
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Mountain Gnome
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Amen Millegas. The Bible shows a remarkable consistency, voice, and logic for something written by many different people of many different times and circumstances. It takes a lot of believing that all that is coincidence. Concolor, in a larger sense, it's quite simply not an option to be a Christian and not believe the Bible. Or at least it makes no sense. It you only take the sections you like or agree with, then you might as well not be calling yourself anything. You're simply following your own whims. Now, onto the logic question of why the Bible can realistically make such claims, I would think that's self-evident. It's not as though there are several ways the world can work. There are no two, equally valid ways for a ball to fall to the ground, there are not two, equally valid explanations for a disease, underlying facts are facts. So, when you're looking at a monotheistic religion, or really ANY religion that takes itself seriously, of course they think theirs is the only way. They think their religion is the true explanation of why the world works the way it does (if they didn't, they would hardly be in that religion to begin with), and as it is true, there is no other, equally valid explanation for cosmic order. If Allah is the supreme being of the universe, then appealing to Shiva makes no sense, because Shiva doesn't exist. If Shiva DID exist, then the point of Allah would be lost--he obviously wouldn't be supreme--so trusting in him wouldn't do a whole lot. Really, if you consider all religions equally valid ways to reach heaven, then essentially you consider no religions to be truly valid ways to salvation. So really, the point of any serious religion precludes the option of 'other gods' or 'other paths.' It's simple logic, xenophobia is largely irrelevant. Converts, who drop their old religion to pick up a new one, are probably the least xenophobic people in the world, but if they didn't consider the new religion to be valid and the old not, there would be no reason for them to convert in the first place. |
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"Evil Triumphs when Good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke | |
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| Concolor | 15 Nov 2010, 05:48 PM Post #10 |
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Barabbas
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I dare you both to find a book that is less consistent than the Bible (Kafka-novels not included) If the book truly is so self-consistent, why have scholars struggled since the early days to reconcile the different scriptures? Why is there no consensus between branches of Christianity as to which texts should be included? Why are there not two people on the face of the earth with the same image of God, Heaven, Jesus, and what you have to do to get saved?How did Judas die? How many people saw Jesus arise from the dead? If you want a consistent holy book, I recommend the Qu'ran where Allah explains how the sons of Abraham completely messed it up with all the scriptures and decided to write one book to end all holy books ![]() Also, you speak of the Bible as if it was written down solely by men who had no contact with others than themselves and no knowledge of any other scriptures over thousands of years, completely ignorant of each other, and then it was magically combined into a book. This overlooks both the fact that most of them did have the ability to read or be told the prior parts of the texts, as well as the many editorials (and competing editors) that made one of the final Bibles that people read today. @Afalstein: Well, that depends on what kind of person you are. I agree with you, that if you say that parts of the Bible can be explained or interpreted away, that some parts are less important or "the style of the time", then you are not using the Bible as a basis. Then you are using yourself as a basis, and you're simply cherry picking from the Bible whatever fits your own, self-made world view. And if you're only using the Bible to pick out stuff you already agree with, then you could might as well do it with the Qu'ran, Star Wars or the latest copy of the Mickey Mouse magazine. If the Bible truly is the word of an almighty creator, who are we to cut and paste as we like? But my point is that some people are not concerned with whether or not their beliefs are true, only if they are comforting. They have no desire to follow the Bible to the point, as they deep down inside don't truly believe in it, it just makes them feel comfortable to point to a book or a tradition rather than to take the ordeal of reshaping their life after what the facts are telling them they should. I honestly think this is the case at some level with most people. I don't fully agree. The "exclusion of all other Gods"-principle is, as far as I understand it a fairly recent thing mostly limited to the three largest of the middle-eastern religions (namely Judaism, Christianity and Islam). Other forms of worshiping Gods puts the Gods more as a part of nature rather than above it. The God of your tribe might not be the only God, but surely he was the strongest of the Gods! Again others might have the perspective that the divine is unknowable, and that the different religions are only different human attempts of explaining the same divine presence, and rather than one being more correct than the others, they are all equally futile attempts of explaining the inexplainable. Then again you have those who really don't care, like many parts of Vietnam where they have a Buddha in one corner of the living room, some tao Gods in the other, a shrine for worshiping a deceased relative and a crucifix on the wall for good measure. - But I guess that might be what you're addressing when you speak of religions who are not being taken seriously. Edited by Concolor, 15 Nov 2010, 05:52 PM.
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Deleted User | 16 Nov 2010, 09:03 AM Post #11 |
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Deleted User
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how so? the koran teaches 4 wives while Muhamed had 12 ? Islam teaches that the Holy Spirit is Gabriel but if thats true how can Gabriel live in us? Islam teaches that what the previous prophets taught was true,but that Muhamed was the greatest and only prophet to worship,so if what Jesus said was true why would Muslims not beleive Jesus was God in flesh? Islam teaches that the other holy writings are the Pslams,first 5 books of mosses and the books containing the teachings of Jesus but they are "lost" so are superceded by the Koran-yet they accept whatever agrees with the Koran from those books is "true" however there are over 25,000 ancient manuscripts of the New Testament so how could Jesus teachings be lost ? Islam teaches the Koran was given to Muhammad directly from God therefor the Koran is surpreme because its an original document,but how can this be a consistent holy book when Muhammad couldnt read or write ? Thats just a few reasons why I would not agree with your opinion about the Koran Another is from what i see and have experienced of the nature of mankind in relation to rules & laws & standards-namely its illogical to suggest that we humans are capable of acheiving & sustaining the level of performance required by Allah. If what Allah said thru the prophet Muhhamed is true then Allah hates anyone that is not Moslim,why should I serve a God who hates me? If you are a follower of Muhhamed my purpose here is not to offend you or to be intolerent of your beleifs,the people I know who are of your faith are devout & honest people whom I hold in high esteem & with whom I freely share my faith with and have no intention to disrespect. On the question of Judas-he died by hanging -hanging is the cause of death in another scripture it adds he fell & his guts spilled out-yuck-no one must of took him down after he hung himself and he eventually just fell down from the noose or branch or whatever it was-what a sad image ! |
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| Concolor | 20 Nov 2010, 09:03 PM Post #12 |
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC:Firstly, does it say that men can only have four wives, including the prophet, or else they will not have eternal salvation? Secondly, whatever Muhammed chooses to do does not affect the contents of the Qu'ran. If one part of the book had said "you shall have 4 wifes, no more and no less", and another part had said "you are permitted to have 12 wives" THAT would have been a contradiction. If the Qu'ran says one thing and Muhammed does something else, then that's just too bad for Muhammed. The same way that God and Jesus can of course ![]() Islam teaches that the stuff in the Bible is correct only insofar as it does not contradict any teachings of Islam. If something in the Bible doesn't fit then that's just one of the things that the Jews and Christians confused over the years (which the Qu'ran says they did). He had scribes. Any other problem with the delivery can simply be solved by labeling it "a miracle" ![]() Allah does not hate you. He is beyond such petty, human emotions ![]() You good intentions are of course highly appreciated, but what you say is not only blasphemous but highly offensive to both Allah and the prophet. Not that I think that counts as a reason for you not expressing it, I'm merely pointing it out. Acts 1:18 (KJV): "Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out." I see no hanging there, just Judas buying a field for the money he got, falling headlong as he steps into it and bursting asunder as a punishment for his wickedness. |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Deleted User | 21 Nov 2010, 07:26 AM Post #13 |
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"Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." But they said, "What is that to us? See to that yourself!" 5And he threw the pieces of silver into the sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself." Mathew 27 - it tells us how he dies. Acts tells us what alsohappened most likely after he hung himself-its further details added not substituted-the Bible speacifically names the cause of death. It would not be uncommon to find the body -espeacially if its a suicide from hanging - fallen on the ground-I doubt long term structural strength wouldnt be a priority in choosing a branch.....
its 4 wives thats preached in Islam-it does sound odd that if what Muhammed claimed is true,and Allah spoke the Qu'ran to him as the LAST prophet that he would blantently disobey Allah.....its not logical ??? I mean the bible has many examples of God working thru man-and of course these people made copious mistakes-but the bible teaches JESUS was WITHOUT SIN - we worship Jesus -among all the other valid reasons,he practiced what he preached ! Islam teaches the Koran was given to Muhammad directly from God therefor the Koran is surpreme because its an original document,but how can this be a consistent holy book when Muhammad couldnt read or write ? Although Islam teaches the Koran was given to Muhammad directly from God yet the Koran says that it was the angel Gabriel that visited him and told him to record the words given In comparison -JESUS TOOK INSTRUCTIONS DIRECTLY FROM GOD THE FATHER - (John 14;16) So what evidence is there that the Koran was compiled and completed in Muhammad's lifetime? If what Allah said thru the prophet Muhhamed is true then Allah hates anyone that is not Moslim,why should I serve a God who hates me?Allah does not hate you.
Apparently he is not as evidenced here from the Koran "Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and messengers, to Gabriel and Michael,- Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith" 2:98 Yusuf Ali |
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| Concolor | 21 Nov 2010, 08:25 AM Post #14 |
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC: I disagree, Acts 1:18 clearly states that he used the money to buy a field, so I don't think you are right in claiming that he threw it into the temple. Also I think that hanging himself would be important enough that the Acts should mention it. The acts shows the greedy Judas buying a field for his blood money, but when he walks into his reward to enjoy it he is divinely punished for his acts.Muhammed is not without sin, he is merely a prophet. Also, Allah gave him specific permission to marry all those women. It's right there in the Qu'ran, Sure 33:50: "O prophet, we made lawful for you your wives to whom you have paid their due dowry, or what you already have, as granted to you by GOD. Also lawful for you in marriage are the daughters of your father's brothers, the daughters of your father's sisters, the daughters of your mother's brothers, the daughters of your mother's sisters, who have emigrated with you. Also, if a believing woman gave herself to the prophet - by forfeiting the dowry - the prophet may marry her without a dowry, if he so wishes. However, her forfeiting of the dowry applies only to the prophet, and not to the other believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses or what they already have. This is to spare you any embarrassment. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful" The Koran is supreme because Allah gave it as a final correction to all the prophets that had been misunderstood before, not because of how it was written. Muhammed used scribes, and the fact that he was illiterate just shows what a miracle the whole thing was ![]() That has nothing to do with the consistency of the book. And I don't think it was compiled into one book during his lifetime, but within the next generation. As Allahs intention with the Koran was to write a perfect holy book, it is reasonable to assume that he made sure the compilation and completion resulted in exactly what he had in mind, him being all-powerful and that. Allah is the one who instructed Jesus to say "love your enemies", so of course he still loves me even if I am an enemy of him for not having faith
Edited by Concolor, 21 Nov 2010, 08:27 AM.
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Deleted User | 21 Nov 2010, 09:15 AM Post #15 |
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so the Gospel of Jesus obviously was not corrupted ,as taught by Islam. On what basis do you beleive Acts should mention the cause of death when its revealed to us in Mathew ? There is no contradiction -the hanging happened the falling happened - are you trying to imply they both cant be true ? they both occured and thats why they are both mentioned - unless someone takes down the corpse its quite plausable to think of it falling busting open and spilling its decomposing guts on the ground
EXACTELY ! I rest my case If there was any greater evidence that the inspiration for the Koran was from Muhammad's mind I think you"ve got it right there I mean c'mon ~!!!! if you are gonna make up your own religion why stop at 4 wives ? ha,ha,ha I asked you this question "What evidence is there that the Koran was compiled and completed in Muhammad's lifetime?" and your reply was I agree if Allah was God- which brings me back to my original challenge to your comment that if we want consistancy we should look at the Koran - which i did and found much the same as you have -he claimed to receive the revelation of the Koran from Allah which means that at that time the Bible which was in existence could not have been corrupted as stated by Allah - God's word cannot be corrupted. The Bible exsisted at the time of Muhammed as he was alive between 570 - 632 When then was the Bible corrupted ?? if Allahs words in the Koran state that the Gospels along with the Koran are true & that Allahs words can not be changed -then how can the Gospels be changed ? |
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(Kafka-novels not included) If the book truly is so self-consistent, why have scholars struggled since the early days to reconcile the different scriptures? Why is there no consensus between branches of Christianity as to which texts should be included? Why are there not two people on the face of the earth with the same image of God, Heaven, Jesus, and what you have to do to get saved?

I mean c'mon ~!!!! if you are gonna make up your own religion why stop at 4 wives ? ha,ha,ha 
6:42 PM Jul 10