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| Global vs. Local | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 9 Feb 2011, 10:01 PM (409 Views) | |
Luemas
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9 Feb 2011, 10:01 PM Post #1 |
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DELICIOUS!
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BECAUSE I am famous for not checking the archives for information referring to past/present debates that may or may not relate to this... I am making a new debate thread. However... it relates much less towards famous debators as Concolor may care... It is not about creation vs. Evolution, we've been there... and agreed to disagree. Or something. It is about A global flood Versus a Local Flood. With 100% More Capitalization. I've always been raised on global flood basis, but I am curious to hear the opposing arguments. It would also be interesting to go with Old Earth Creationism Versus Young Earth Creationism SOOO.. Let the flood commence. (Get it? Get it?) |
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably. | |
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| Deleted User | 10 Feb 2011, 07:55 AM Post #2 |
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Deleted User
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we talkin noahs ark here ay? oh & btw there was a general consensus that GOD CREATED MAN ETC...
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| Concolor | 10 Feb 2011, 01:36 PM Post #3 |
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Barabbas
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Hahahahaha! You crack me up Arzy ![]() Great initiative Lue! As predicted I have few stakes in such a debate, but I may come around with some questions later. |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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Luemas
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10 Feb 2011, 04:19 PM Post #4 |
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DELICIOUS!
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You're always welcome Concolor. I recently, (To my chagrin) discovered about Old Earth Creationists, and I liked the cut of their jib. And I have a paper to write on global vs. Local flood arguments, and I find the best arguments usually come from a real dynamic argument. Not that I'd steal arguments, but it's always interesting to see points being made. There. Now you know my secret. |
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably. | |
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| Afalstein | 10 Feb 2011, 08:07 PM Post #5 |
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Mountain Gnome
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Global. The Bible says the flood covered the tops of the highest mountains and so forth, so it's not like it could have been contained anywhere. Also, Noah's Ark makes no sense if the Flood is local, because Noah could have simply moved out of range of the Flood in the time it took him to build the thing. God could have guided animals out of the region instead of sending them to Noah. The whole Ark would have been extraneous. That's the Biblical side. From a more rational/scientific perspective (which I'm by no means an expert in), many fossils show signs of being quickly buried, indeed, they would HAVE to be in order to avoid rotting. Sedimentary layers too, correspond roughly to what we expect to be thrown up in a flood. These are things found the world over, not just in some localized area. Also of global scope are Noah STORIES, where a man makes a big boat to survive a catastrophe. That's my take. Begin debate. |
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"Evil Triumphs when Good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke | |
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Luemas
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10 Feb 2011, 08:17 PM Post #6 |
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DELICIOUS!
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Well, also from a rational point, there wouldn't be much of a need for a global flood. Think about it, early humans are notorious for being repetitive. God told them to fill the Earth. Yet we see after the flood, that they do the whole Tower of Babel thing. Would it be too far fetched to assume they wouldn't travel very far apart? Also, for the global stories, because we're assuming the common descent from Noah and his people, wouldn't it make sense for the stories to be spread out, because of the common descent, regardless of the scale of the flood? (This is weird, arguing with Afalstein. He's usually my friend in debates... I do like to be the Devil's Advocate though...) |
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably. | |
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| Afalstein | 10 Feb 2011, 08:27 PM Post #7 |
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Mountain Gnome
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It DOES feel a little weird. But hey, that's what debate sections are all about. Can hardly expect to agree on everything. Ahem. Good points, both. If humanity was kept in a small space, there would hardly be any reason to cover the WHOLE earth. Only humanity had sinned, after all. And definitely, the universal stories would come from the common descent of Noah regardless. Then again, humans WERE the keepers of the earth, so perhaps their sin became the Earth's. That's a stretch, though. I suppose it comes down to man's dispersion. There was a Loooooong gap between Creation and the flood... over a thousand years, I believe. And people didn't die easily back then either, they lived up to six hundred years, according to the records. Given that, we can assume a fairly large population, that probably would have spread out a good deal. Perhaps over the whole world, particularly if the continents were all together back then. It's not impossible. |
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"Evil Triumphs when Good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke | |
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Luemas
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10 Feb 2011, 09:00 PM Post #8 |
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DELICIOUS!
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That is true. I see it this way... people seem to have about 800 years to have children after they start having children. If they had a child every year... That's quite the population explosion. So we're kind of at a theoretical point now, because the bible doesn't talk a whole lot about how humans spread. |
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably. | |
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| Deleted User | 11 Feb 2011, 08:12 AM Post #9 |
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Deleted User
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ive had jack of floods nd cyclonesalthough- i have been praying for inspiration recently - the bible sections been a bit slow of late even by our forum standards* Whats the signifigance either way ? besides doing Lues research |
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| Afalstein | 11 Feb 2011, 10:49 PM Post #10 |
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Mountain Gnome
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Largely because of the desire to reconcile the Bible with scientific observation. If there is no evidence for a global flood, then the question of whether the Bible is only describing a local flood becomes rather important. Also, if the flood was global, it probably impacted all regions. History should match up with the Bible, by comparing the two we should get a good idea of what happened. Oh, by the way, another thing is, God said in his covenant to Noah that he would never send such a flood again. There have been plenty of local floods since Noah's day, but no global ones. That underscores the other reason this sort of thing is important--to defend the consistency and logic of scripture. You should know what the Flood is when you're talking about it. |
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"Evil Triumphs when Good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke | |
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Luemas
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12 Feb 2011, 01:55 PM Post #11 |
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DELICIOUS!
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While there have been several local floods since, have there been floods that have reached the scale of destroying entire civilizations? Of climbing to the tallest mountain top? Of destroying all peoples and civilizations in a country? I mean, there have been some pretty big floods. Like the indonesian Tsunami back in 04, 05 I want to say? But there were still people living there. It wasn't like one day people were alive. The next day, none. |
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably. | |
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| PsychoKitteh | 12 Feb 2011, 02:31 PM Post #12 |
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Horned Rogue
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Oh, the debates of Christianity. I think Global. Even though I do not necessarily believe everything the Bible has to say, I do believe based on the debate, that it was global. Though, Luemas does make a good point. There has not been a flood that would wipe out entire civilizations, none close to that. Think of it like this. If God, lets just say, wanted us off of the earth for all of our sins that we would never be able to atone, don't you think he would have made a huge flood that WOULD have wiped out the entire human race? Or, If he just got angry at a particular area of the world or something, then he might have just created a flood to wipe out that one particular spot... |
| Duh dah duh doooo haaaaaaa laaaaa!!! lii tiii doooo!! | |
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ive had jack of floods nd cyclones
6:42 PM Jul 10