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| God's image | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 9 Oct 2011, 05:38 PM (2,119 Views) | |
| Midst Of Vampy | 9 Oct 2011, 05:38 PM Post #1 |
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Barabbas
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Homosexuality is considered a sin, yes? Well I have a question, if everyone was supposedly created in God's image, why are there homosexuals? Why are there murderers? why are there miscarriges, and abortions if these things are un-holy? If god created us in his own image, did he honestly want our world to be made up of chaos and destruction, etc? Makes me wonder. |
| TIMEY-WHIMEY SKITTLES! | |
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| Concolor | 10 Oct 2011, 02:05 AM Post #2 |
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Barabbas
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Well I have no answers except for the obvious one
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Babaylan | 10 Oct 2011, 04:18 AM Post #3 |
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Horned Rogue
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Its called "Choices" We have a choice for everything, one does not kill nor one decides to be gay after he woke up. It does not exist upon itself. It goes through alot of trials A murderer was forged from an environment of abuse. A thief suckled from the breasts of hunger. The roots of a homo is still unknown. If its from the genes, then its God's fault, but if its from the surrounding as well, then the root is the true sinner^o) Everyone is to be blamed for the existance of evil for just as what is qouted in Afalsteins profile "Evil happens when good men does nothing". No single sinner grew up without experiencing the cold shoulders from good men Edited by Babaylan, 10 Oct 2011, 04:19 AM.
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All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by frost. | |
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| Midst Of Vampy | 10 Oct 2011, 08:21 AM Post #4 |
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Barabbas
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I did not choose to be bisexual. I did not go through any "trials", I simply started being attracted to a girl at school. There have been tons of killers who had perfectly stable, nice home lives as children. Of course though, if God knows everything, he knows who is going to be a murderer and why. If he knows everything that is going to happen in our lives we have no "choices", we have a path that we follow that god has created. |
| TIMEY-WHIMEY SKITTLES! | |
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| Babaylan | 10 Oct 2011, 02:08 PM Post #5 |
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Horned Rogue
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Wait, your a lesbo "There have been tons of killers who had perfectly stable, nice home lives as children" - As well as being ignored by their own family or being forced to abide by the rules turning them into rebels. Though, there is a genetic disorder where someone cant help but steal things, its a disorder called "Kleptomania" where only God is to be blamed. "if God knows everything, he knows who is going to be a murderer and why." - In school, we are taught a lesson that will prepare us for a test but in life, we are given a test that will teach us a lesson. I wont be able to answer that until it happened to me
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All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by frost. | |
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Luemas
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10 Oct 2011, 02:36 PM Post #6 |
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DELICIOUS!
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Bullocks Vamp. I call bullocks. How many times have you and Cheese lamented over boys? Hence me calling bullocks. You've had bad boyfriends, and thus you turn to the opposite gender. Also, you assume that God has predestined so and so to be gay, or a murderer. Predestination is a difficult topic to approach, as it seems to conflict with free will. But it doesn't. So there. |
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably. | |
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| Concolor | 10 Oct 2011, 03:34 PM Post #7 |
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Barabbas
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Ahahahaha! 10 points for sensitivity there guys (<- this is sarcasm)First of all: Being a "lesbo" means you're only attracted to girls. Vamp used the word "bisexual" which is an attraction to both genders. That means lamenting over boys AND girls. Now to get behind the labels a bit: Gay/straight is not really two options, but more the radical extremes of a continuum. If you are very much attracted to your own gender, and very little to the opposite - you'll usually count yourself as "gay". If you're very attracted to the opposite gender, and not so much to your own - you'll usually call yourself "straight". If you're attracted to both genders by a significant amount, or you switch fairly regularly between the two - you're usually called "bi". Predestination does remove free will, but one does not need to be able to make bad choices in order to have free will - one can merely choose freely between good choices and free will remains intact. @Babaylan: I find it strange that you mention homosexuality in the same context as murder and theft. Is there a reason why you would find them in any way similar? |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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Luemas
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10 Oct 2011, 06:17 PM Post #8 |
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DELICIOUS!
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Sorry, subtlety has never been my strong point. I'd like to challenge you to something you said there. The predestination removing free will. You see, by your logic, that makes God a hypocrite hating etc yadayadayada. Because, in my opinion, I find that to be incorrect, and now I shall prove it. You see, you and God operate on a different plane. God is all knowing, and that includes present, past, and future. So that means God has predestined the future. Now, we as humans, live in the plane of time, so that means that we do not know what the future holds, and merely move from instant in time to another, trying to do the best we can. From God's point of view, everything's already happened and done with. From ours, we're still moving along, day by day. Can those both be equal? I say yes. Because we live day by day, we make decisions in the now. Not God. I am not a robot spewing senseless drivel, as much as you may want me to be Conc. ![]() I know it seems odd to explain, but you get into theory involving different dimensions, and that's no fun. |
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably. | |
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| Concolor | 11 Oct 2011, 12:10 AM Post #9 |
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Barabbas
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I love theories with different dimentions, I've had several university subjects on the topic ![]() I don't see how your scenario removes predestination or allows free will in any way. Just because we are ignorant of our predestined path doesn't mean we are free to deviate from the path - any more than closing your eyes and walking off a cliff allows you to stay in the air. |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Babaylan | 11 Oct 2011, 03:59 AM Post #10 |
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Horned Rogue
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Because both of their existance relies on the support from the chain reactions of the environment. Especially the domino effect of ignoring them Edited by Babaylan, 11 Oct 2011, 12:20 PM.
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All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by frost. | |
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Luemas
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11 Oct 2011, 02:35 PM Post #11 |
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DELICIOUS!
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Walk a cliff and stay in the air? It always worked in the cartoons! So far, most of my theory in multiple dimensions comes from the tenth dimension video blog on youtube. He's a pretty interesting guy. Now, my goal is not to disprove predestination. If there were no predestination, then it would matter not what I did, regardless of what I did, I would go to heaven. If I disproved free will, then as we all know, I'd be a mindless robot, and go to heaven or heck as God fancied. Now, obviously, we have choice. I can choose to pick up my phone and call someone, or I can focus on this post and keep typing. I just demonstrated free will there. Now, God knew I would keep typing, so he predestined me to keep typing. Are not both of those statements true? |
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably. | |
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| Concolor | 11 Oct 2011, 03:57 PM Post #12 |
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Barabbas
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@Babaylan:But if it is predestination you talk about, you could might as well equate homosexuality with the eating of broccoli or the liking of flowers - as their existance relies on the support from the chain reactions of the environment. But you didn't. you chose something vile. Why is that? @Lue: Why? How is this obvious? Now I'll just quote this guy I know: "You see, you and God operate on a different plane. God is all knowing, and that includes present, past, and future. So that means God has predestined the future. Now, we as humans, live in the plane of time, so that means that we do not know what the future holds, and merely move from instant in time to another, trying to do the best we can." If you don't know what the future holds, then OF COURSE you will feel as if you can choose freely. But you just described a scenario where God has determined everything, just hiding the path from your view. This is only a demonstration that you do not know your path, not of free will. Not at the same time they are not. If you are predestined to be typing, then you are predestined to be typing. I don't see why it should matter if you know it or not? |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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Luemas
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12 Oct 2011, 07:33 PM Post #13 |
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DELICIOUS!
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Like I said, we operate on different planes. It doesn't matter to me, if God knows or not, because that doesn't influence my choices, correct? God made humans special of all creation. We aren't like the animals, dumb, and only inclined to reproduce and survive. (well, for the most part) He created us to think, to learn, to grow. To have socialization among others. We were given a choice to eat of the apple. God didn't go down there and make us eat the apple, nor did he zap Satan when he started tempting Adam. He let Adam choose for himself. Did God know the result? Yes. BUT, isn't it also possible, that because God is in multiple dimensions, there was a dimension where Adam didn't eat the apple? So, isn't it possible, that God knows everything that will happen in a certain dimension, but through our choices, we move in and out of dimensions? Actually, maybe it's better to say that God is in fact, outside of all dimensions, and instead looking on through the outside. |
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably. | |
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| Concolor | 13 Oct 2011, 05:23 PM Post #14 |
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Barabbas
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@Lue:False. If God knows then your choices are predetermined, if God does not know your choiches may or may not be predetermined by something else. Have you turned on your TV-set lately? We share an extraordinary amount of similarities with the other animals. Not only most of our DNA, but most of our abilities and behavior. But yes, just as the cheetah runs faster than most other animals, the falcon has sharper eyesight, our brains have a larger capacity for certain kinds of thinking than most other animals. God made Adam and Eve without giving them knowledge of good and evil, he (for no reason) put the tree of knowledge in the garden for them to reach, he made a talking snake that he knew would trick Eve to eat of the fruit, and then he punished them for performing an action he knew they would do - which would not have been possible without God's careful setup - and which he had not given them the ability to understand was an evil act. If that's not rigging the game, what is? And why does he put this test there in the first place? No, that would be an alternate universe. Dimensions are things like up-down, left-right, in-out etc. yet all parts of the same existence. If God creates another universe where other things happen, great for him. But he doesn't need to be a jerk in this universe just because he's nice in another. Are you claiming that God cannot know or control this? If so he is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. Then why doesn't he create only good "dimensions"/universes and let us choose freely between those? Edited by Concolor, 13 Oct 2011, 05:23 PM.
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Midst Of Vampy | 13 Oct 2011, 06:41 PM Post #15 |
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Barabbas
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Lue- Yes, Cheezy and I have, but I'd like to tell you that Cheezy is ALSO bisexual. I liked girls way before I liked boys. I tend to date more guys than girls, but I do date both. Not at the same time, obviously. So I'd appreciate it if you didn't try and jump to conclusions about my attractions and/or thoughts on genders. Concolor- I completely agree with you. Lue again- I have to agree with Concolor, if god knows everything already, past, present, future, everything has been layed out for him to know, therefor we don't actually have free will, we follow a path he knows we are destined to follow. We don't have a choice to change that path because that would have been part of the path set for us. See what I'm getting at? Babaylan- No, I'm not lesbo, I'm bisexual. A lot of people think that we make the choice to like the same gender. Not true. Think like this. A killer chooses to kill his victims. Someone who steals chooses to steal that item. Homosexuals do not choose, it is simply an emotion, or rather, an attraction we can't control. We don't look at someone and debate to ourselves if we're going to choose to like that person or not, it's just like you liking a guy. |
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