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System Revisions
Topic Started: Feb 11 2015, 11:47 AM (1,279 Views)
Turinu
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System Revisions
Changes to Build Grade
With some people voicing their minds in regards to the Build Grade system, mainly pertaining to "Oh, even if I build this Gunpla it won't have access to all of its stuffs cuz' not enough BG", One of the revisions going into play is the elimination of BG cost for features that should be standard to a Gunpla.

How this will work with SD units is still not devised. However chances are gimmicks that are listed as "Special Moves" will still cost BG. Gimmicks such as transformation will not cost any BG, but may still have AP costs to initialize.

This will be applied to all current Gunpla. It will also have a heavy affect on the future cost of BG, either increasing the cost of special features or decreasing the starting amount of BG one has available to them.

Also, I'm contemplating removing the mandatory Weight category and replacing it with something else, that will still be mandatory and affect action points. Any suggestions would be great.

Changes to Attributes
Attributes are going to be changing for Gunpla to make it a bit more balanced and make a bit more sense. Also, Power will finally be filled in with a description. The changes will not affect any of the currently approved Gunpla; old attributes are grandfathered in and will only be changed when and if an upgrade submission is placed. Any new Gunpla you request will be subject to the new changes.
Edited by Turinu, Feb 11 2015, 12:36 PM.
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Barzam
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Sounds good to me. As you well know I've been rather vocal with my thoughts on the topic of suit approvals.

I have something I'd like to put to you if we are talking about revisions.

Beam shields.

If your suit comes equipped with a beam shield it will automatically be granted 3 defence and 3 Speciality under the rules you currently have listed providing it with an additional 2AP in combat. The only issue I have with this is because it costs 0BG to have and is essentially a "freebie" that you get based off of suit preference. Placing a cost on a piece of Beam Shields that allow for an additional 2AP would bring them into line with other special systems that have a similar effect but for a cost of up to 25BG.

The argument that VSBR is a hard counter is not a very good one as that in itself cost 10BG to equip and the shield still remains free. Achieving the same effect with an I-Field would cost more than 10BG minimum (as evidenced by the pseudo I-Field Build grade listing). Like the Beam Shield the I-Field is an incomplete defence that is vulnerable to physical weapons that come with no additional costs and are much more common. In short Beam Shield: cheap and effective. I-Field: Expensive and not as effective. That argument kind of falls on it face if you look into it too much so stop reading now.

The goal here is to make it so that all suits have equal footing and can be competitive. If we leave things as they are anybody who looks at Gunpla creation like I do will immediately seek out suits that have beam shields for the perks they give vs suits without.

TL;DR. Beam Shields provide too many bonuses for something that doesn't cost any BG to use, putting a BG cost on them that is equivalent to their bonuses is something that I think needs to be done.

With regards to weight I have absolutely no idea what you could do there.
Edited by Barzam, Feb 11 2015, 01:11 PM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIdfonmaKgc

SpitfirePlus: I <3 Barzam Thu Feb 5, 5:54:28am
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Turinu
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Aye, don't worry. Beam Shields are being moved from the 3 Defense / 3 Specialty ratings to the new standard levels for Defense and Specialty (1), since these are basic equipment for some Gunpla.
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Seraph
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I think that just a straight up armor rating would work better than than the weight if the weight classes are removed.
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Spitfire
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Maybe go with roles instead of weight?
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Lord Kazuar
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What Spit said. Perhaps replace the weight idea with an orientation.

Keep the +1 Offense, -1 AP from 'Heavy Weight (Offense)' but say the machine is heavily weapon-oriented. Something like this,
Weaponized 0 BG Your Gunpla is outfitted with numerous or heavy, powerful weapons. It gains a bonus to Offense, but loses 1 AP.
Edited by Lord Kazuar, Feb 11 2015, 05:46 PM.
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Turinu
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Lord Kazuar
Feb 11 2015, 04:36 PM
What Spit said. Perhaps replace the weight idea with an orientation.

Keep the +1 Offense, -1 AP from 'Heavy Weight (Offense)' but say the machine is heavily weapon-oriented. Something like this,
Weaponized 0 BG Your Gunpla is outfitted with numerous or heavy, powerful weapons. It gains a bonus to Offense, but looses 1 AP.


This, I like.
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Black Cross
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I thought Beam Shields (GN Fields Etc) Had an AP cost associated with activation ontop of the AP spent on Defense + the field itself costing BG to purchase. If not, remember that for some of those you only can block two or so consecutive hits before it is disengaged for two post rotations.

Soooo AP+1 for activation of shield +2 for Blocking = 3 x2 = 6. 6 AP for a use of the field and then it has a two post rotation cool down....I'm concerned about how changes will effect thing such as this in either a better or worse scenario as the cost to do so is already steep
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Turinu
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I don't remember giving Fields an activation cost for the most part... If I did I forgot. Teehee. P:

I always saw them functioning as slightly better shields, if only for the fact they don't break and can be recharged (Unless the emitter is broken in the case of beam shields or the I-Field Generator is damaged... GN Fields get an easy break since that's internalized).
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Seraph
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I think a number of cool specializations for 0 BG that provide AP or other stat bonuses would be cool.
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Barzam
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Does this apply to special systems like the zero system, psycommu and bio-computers or will they still have a separate cost?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIdfonmaKgc

SpitfirePlus: I <3 Barzam Thu Feb 5, 5:54:28am
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Spitfire
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Maybe mass productions should get a discount on custom systems like adding a bio-sensor compared to adding it to a prototype, this would go for limited as well but not as much of a discount compared to mass productions.
Edited by Spitfire, Feb 12 2015, 12:53 AM.
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Lord Kazuar
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Barzam
Feb 12 2015, 12:21 AM
Does this apply to special systems like the zero system, psycommu and bio-computers or will they still have a separate cost?

I'd keep those as separate costs and bonuses. The idea with these is to kind of categorize the Gunpla's basic strengths and weaknesses. Similar to the above example would be things like high mobility (+AP, - Offense/Defense), heavy armor (+ Defense, -AP), and basic (no bonuses or handicaps). As for Tur's thought of eliminating BG costs for equipment that should exist on a Gunpla, personally I'd keep that to at least a straight body builds.

Spitfire
 
Maybe mass productions should get a discount on custom systems like adding a bio-sensor compared to adding it to a prototype, this would go for limited as well but not as much of a discount compared to mass productions.

I... don't really see the reasoning for that. Mass production units already have a 50 BG lower cost compared to prototype units to balance out the performance difference.
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Turinu
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The "BG Cost = 0 for systems on units" Is exactly like you describe, Kaz. It'll only be for features that are on a straight build, that carry over into a custom model.

For instance, you can technically view Spit's Hexa as a straight build, though professionally done. So all of the current features on there would cost 0BG and Spit would have actual room to customize.

The differences between custom builds based off of other units and scratch builds would become more apparent as well. Like the Yojimbo, it would most likely be classified as a Scratch Build instead of a Limited Production build, as even though it draws inspiration from the G-Bouncer, which could be considered a limited production unit, 95% of the unit is pretty much original in design, with GN systems thoroughly integrated into the design.

Also no. Making things cheaper for Mass Production models would be a horrible mistake. They already cost so little and with this change in the system, they'll have far more room for customization. Making things cheaper and doubling the amount of customization on a mass production model would be insane.

Instead, it's going to go like this:

Mass Production Models have the edge in the beginning, as they cost less in the official system allowing room for more customization in exchange for lower stats. So in the short run, they're someone's best bet. Whereas Prototype Models have high base attributes and little customization options outside of aesthetics, as BG is unlocked they'll become even more powerful. So in the long run, they'll be better.
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Seraph
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The Yojimbo technically IS a G-Bouncer with the GN system slapped in. Some superficial customization has been done to the aesthetic but it is a G-Bouncer at the core. I did that specifically to have wiggle room since my original design cost more than the 100 BG starting limiting. Removing its production classification would completely make me unable to use the Yojimbo and start from scratch, again, and I'd rather not do that.
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Turinu
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"Technically". But it's a highly original unit with a GN Drive integrated throughout its entire frame, and a unique appearance that hardly harkens back to the G-Bouncer, with even the most remote similarities maybe being the "Bunny Ear" styled protrusions on the head. Claiming it as a Limited Production Model is really just a cop out so you can take advantage of the system to squeeze your stuff into it. I mainly allowed it because I wanted to go easy on the first wave of Gunpla applicants. Despite all that though, you're grandfathered in. So unless you decide to upgrade the Yojimbo (Or make a new unit from scratch), the system changes, for the most part, will not apply to you.

Still, it wouldn't force you to start from scratch. You'd just have some features "locked" in this case, if changes were to be applied to the Yojimbo that knocked out its ability to use its special features. At that point, it'd just be boosting your BG to unlock those features again. Though again, such changes will not be affecting your Yojimbo; I was just using it as an example in this case on what the changes could do if applied across the board indiscriminately.

That and, the new changes aren't written in stone yet. They mostly were yesterday, but then I made the mistake of accidentally clicking a link in a browser during work for work purposes and all my hard work was erased. Fuggin' Internet Explorer needs to lrn2savepriortabdata.
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Seraph
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Ah okay. I was worried v.v

Its fine though because I don't plan on upgrading the Yojimbo since its just a testbed for Aida's actual gunpla once I have some more BG wiggle room to make it.
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Turinu
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Curious question. Do you guys feel the board needs physical descriptions of each location, or are the pictures self-explanatory? I guess it would only matter if people joining are not familiar with the series are roleplay in general but... just a question. Was thinking of making each section have a scale-able background image for each area, so it also works well on smaller screen sizes, with no text.
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I have no problem getting my imagination to work in a location then again I can see why some *lazy* people would want accurate descriptions of every location.
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Black Cross
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I don't think it would hurt to have physical descriptions of the arenas and or the enviroment shifts.
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