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Gundam Tech in GBF; For fun!
Topic Started: Jun 1 2015, 01:23 PM (984 Views)
juncti0n
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A lot of talk lately has centered around weapons, special systems, and other things that could fall under the category of Gundam Tech (generally.) During the latest iteration of this argument Ots brought up the fact that some people just don't know what in the heck any of this stuff does. And that is actually a serious issue. There are several ways to potentially address the issue, and all of them have the same problem: this is anime, and anime loves plot holes. Gundam Tech is plauged by Bandai creating new plot holes, then issuing new materials to explain away the stupidity they created.

I have been debating Gundam Tech since 2003, but issuing a long rant about how Gundam Tech works won't work here on GBF. Build Fighters is in itself a different continuity that pays homage to Gundam Tech but does not replicate every aspect of it. This thread then; exists to explain Gunpla Tech as opposed to Gundam Tech. None of this is official unless Staff bless it - this topic exists as an informal reference for players on GBF to look at so they have a common tech reference for further discussions.

So, without further ado - let's talk Gunpla Tech:

Part 1 - The Plavsky Particle Plot Device

Any discussion of Gunpla Tech must begin with the substance that makes Gunpla Battle possible: the Plavsky particle. What exactly is it? Nobody knows. But we know what it does. It is a wunderparticle that turns lumps of plastic into laser-blastin' bundles of joy. But Plavsky particles require specific materials and environments to do its job. Gunpla are made from specifically treated plastics, and for Gunpla to move at all they must be encased in a Plavsky field. Once Gunpla leave the field they go back to being poseable lumps of plastic. Within that field however the Plavsky particles adapt themselves into whatever form the user demands. This adaptation ability makes it possible for Gunpla to utilize any technology one can dream up.

No wonder why those who master the Plavsky Plot Device tend to rule the Gunpla world.

Part 2 - Gunpla is Freedom

So long as one has the necessary materials to construct it, a Gunpla hobbyist can build their Gunpla to emulate any Gundam technology, or even bring original technologies to Gunpla. The key to influencing what the Plavsky particle does lies in the physical construction of the Gunpla itself. As stated previously - without specific materials to interact with Plavsky particles do nothing. And even among the materials Plavsky particles do interact with not every material reacts in the same manner with Plavsky fields. Why exactly this happens nobody knows, but it is by combining these various materials together to manipulate how Plavsky particles operate that Gunpla fans around the world re-create their favorite Gundam technologies for their own enjoyment.

Part 3 - Materials Science

Once it is treated seemingly any material can interact with Plavsky particles to some degree. However metals and plastics seem to be the most favored choices for experienced Gunpla Builders. Plastics seem to offer the greatest ease in utilizing Plavsky for the lowest cost; while metals are more difficult to control but offer greater Plavsky utilization. A beam rifle made entirely out of Gunpla plastic then would be inferior in quality to an all-metal beam rifle. However the plastic rifle is more mechanically reliable and far easier to replace if damaged in high-level play. Thus most Builders opt for a hybrid approach, using metal components to reinforce armor and act as particle sinks for high-powered Gunpla abilities.

Such Scratch Builds require some degree of skill to build and use, but always result in a higher quality Gunpla.

Part 4 - Why Build Grade Matters

As said previously - Plavsky particles need something to interact with. The more they have to interact with the more things a Builder can do with his Gunpla. High Grade models are perfectly functional for Gunpla battle but they will always have inferior stock performance compared to the Perfect Grade models. Yet the more complicated you make your Gunpla the more difficult it is to control. As they do when choosing what materials to add to their Gunpla; Builders tend to carefully choose their Gunpla model grades so that they're complex enough to do what the Builder wants, but are still as easy as possible for a fighter to control in Gunpla Battle. This is crucial when utilizing original technologies in Gunpla Battle.

Part 5 - Gundam Tech in Gunpla

If performance in Gunpla is related to the quality of construction, then so it should follow that all Gunpla are by design capable of utilizing common Gundam technologies stock. The RX-78's beam rifle is no different from the AGE-1 Normal's beam rifle in Gunpla. If one wanted to bring out the full capability of the AGE-1's DODS Rifle (which spins the beam) then customization becomes necessary. Any Gundam technology that requires a physical part (like beam sabers) are available stock to all Gunpla. However most Gunpla have their abilities altered to meet a common competitive standard since in Gunpla there is no functional difference between Gundam series' individual technologies beyond the physical parts. It is left to each Builder then to decide if they want to further emulate existing Gundam technology.

Part 5 - The Plavsky-Approved Beam Rifle

When Gunpla Battle begins and the Gunpla is placed on its GP Base, there is a moment when the Gunpla is saturated with Plavsky particles. Because Gunpla do not have reactors per se, it is the frame of the Gunpla itself that powers it in battle. Thin, transparent parts have demonstrated exceptional ability to absorb (but not retain) Plavsky particles. In normal Gunpla, a beam rifle simply gathers a bunch of particles together and shoots them out. Experienced Builders however, integrate transparent (for particle absorption) and metal (for particle storage) parts into their beam rifles for better performance and endurance in Gunpla Battle.

Obviously it is difficult to perform such modifications - which is why such Builders are often world-class competitors.

Part 6 - Controlling Plavsky Weapons

Despite the many advantages of transparent and metal parts; in the end it is plastic parts that afford the greatest control over Plavsky particles. A stock ZZ Gundam, for example, that attempts to fire its Hi-Mega Particle Cannon would likely deplete its Plavsky particle stores in one shot if it was made out of plastic. Yet if it was made out of metal its power would be reduced, and if it were made out of transparent plastics it would be unleashed as an uncontrolled burst of particles too diffused to hurt anyone. It is the combination of these components that differentiates a beam rifle from a scattering beam gun in Gunpla. Or a GN Drive-toting Gunpla from an ordinary Gunpla. The better the Builder's skill the more effective in battle a Gunpla becomes.

Part 7 - Plavsky Trans-(Grah)am

The most difficult aspect of Gundam Tech to emulate is things like the EXAM System. In Gunpla AI control is usually downplayed. Moreover there is no way to allow an AI to enhance Gunpla performance without cheating. But these tricks and gimmicks are hugely popular in Gunpla, and so Builders rely on tricks to simulate their effects. Trans-Am, for example, usually employs a great many translucent parts to produce a dramatic flood of particles for extreme power boosts. Someone simulating the EXAM likely has rebuilt their thrusters with metal parts that can provide a performance boost for a set time.

Though these tricks look impressive and make audiences swoon they are nonetheless tricks requiring careful design to reproduce the intended effect.

That's all I got for now, as a starting point. Obviously this is hardly comprehensive at the moment but if this draws interest it can be expanded later.
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Turinu
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Expand it, good sir.
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juncti0n
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Any particular topic you want me to expand on first, Tur?
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Otsdarva
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So if metal, plastic and transparent plastic have different properties and then things like EXAM and Trans Am are strategically placed materials for plavksy particles, then I have a few questions:

For the Gunpla roleplayer here: Build Grade Types come from standard to Master. Scratch implies you have put all sorts of materials in your assembly for "maximum" output of desired plavsky results so I wonder then is it possible for Standard Builds to use EXAM, Trans Am, and all manner of plavsky manipulation gimmicks without the necessary materials? It seems though for special functions to be used requires high build qualities to enact their effects. Trans Am nor EXAM FENRIR require a build type to harness these powers, and the former as stated is a frame issue. So I assume Standard Grade can't use them for the roleplay then? Should weapons also come in grades to inflate their cost or should specials act as the means of enhancing a weapon's functions provided you're paying exuberantly for them?
Edited by Otsdarva, Jun 1 2015, 04:03 PM.
[11:42:01 PM] ajax2287: puru is meh
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juncti0n
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There is nothing stopping Standard Grades from using Trans-Am except Builder skill level. In fact; the Builder achieves greater control by deliberately using the lowest grade possible. However, a stock all-plastic build utilizing special systems suffers significant risks using these gimmicks compared to Gunpla that were scratch built.

As for weapons, that I'm not sure of. Will have to consult Tur.
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Otsdarva
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juncti0n
Jun 1 2015, 04:30 PM
There is nothing stopping Standard Grades from using Trans-Am except Builder skill level. In fact; the Builder achieves greater control by deliberately using the lowest grade possible. However, a stock all-plastic build utilizing special systems suffers significant risks using these gimmicks compared to Gunpla that were scratch built.

As for weapons, that I'm not sure of. Will have to consult Tur.
Then I suppose it's more of a level of efficiency than it would be a requisite. Alrighty. I can see that.
[11:42:01 PM] ajax2287: puru is meh
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juncti0n
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The efficiency issue is pretty much it. Plastic, stock Gunpla are very easy to control but offer limited value to special systems without customizing. It's less efficient that way, but hardly impossible.
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Black Cross
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Quote:
 
Scratch implies you have put all sorts of materials in your assembly for "maximum" output of desired plavsky results so I wonder then is it possible for Standard Builds to use EXAM, Trans Am, and all manner of plavsky manipulation gimmicks without the necessary materials?


Actually - To further elaborate because I think Junction missed it...

Scratch Builds are Builds that are literally completely 100% Original in both look, design etc. and only have a subtle influence based on a single model or a couple different models. There are many (Standard High Grade > Master Grade) model kits that happen to utilize the "Effects" of systems like "Trans-Am" and "EXAM" simply as the positioning of certain aspects to make them possible are dependent on the kit (IE: A Red Visor sticker or hard plastic clip to go over the visor of a GM to make it enter EXAM State, turning a unit from 00 that uses a GN Drive of any kind a soft pinkish-red hue which indicates Trans-Am).

In addition, while junction is correct that in the build fighters world they utilized an array of special materials like hard plastics, metal lining etc, these were not necessarily what gave units the abilities to use said special systems. If a system was already in place (Like Trans-Am) for a unit in the original series, odds are usually it'll be allowed onto the Unit without much issue as the necessary material to utilize it is indeed just the "GN Drive" Piece that takes the place of the propulsion system on the backpack area.
Edited by Black Cross, Jun 1 2015, 05:41 PM.
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Arithion Ashvor
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Black Cross
Jun 1 2015, 05:40 PM
Quote:
 
Scratch implies you have put all sorts of materials in your assembly for "maximum" output of desired plavsky results so I wonder then is it possible for Standard Builds to use EXAM, Trans Am, and all manner of plavsky manipulation gimmicks without the necessary materials?


Actually - To further elaborate because I think Junction missed it...

Scratch Builds are Builds that are literally completely 100% Original in both look, design etc. and only have a subtle influence based on a single model or a couple different models. There are many (Standard High Grade > Master Grade) model kits that happen to utilize the "Effects" of systems like "Trans-Am" and "EXAM" simply as the positioning of certain aspects to make them possible are dependent on the kit (IE: A Red Visor sticker or hard plastic clip to go over the visor of a GM to make it enter EXAM State, turning a unit from 00 that uses a GN Drive of any kind a soft pinkish-red hue which indicates Trans-Am).

In addition, while junction is correct that in the build fighters world they utilized an array of special materials like hard plastics, metal lining etc, these were not necessarily what gave units the abilities to use said special systems. If a system was already in place (Like Trans-Am) for a unit in the original series, odds are usually it'll be allowed onto the Unit without much issue as the necessary material to utilize it is indeed just the "GN Drive" Piece that takes the place of the propulsion system on the backpack area.
Actually you are incorrect about scratch builds.

A scratch build is generally a Gunpla that had to be built from nothing. In other words the parts are all custom designed and made by the creator. They are not taken from other gunpla kits. They are plastic pieces generally cut with a 3d printer or by hand to make the model kit. B-Club resin kits are examples of this, as they are made from scratch and form a kit. Generally a scratch build is not limited to original ideas, they are also sometimes builds of actual canon units.

Kitbashing is the term used when you combine parts from several kits to make something. If you take parts from one kit and apply them to another, you are kitbashing. This goes for original and non original ideas as well. If you want a Stark Jegan and kitbash armor plates from a Alex Gundam to make the Stark Jegan. You are kitbashing two kits in order to a new make one. If you take a real grade frame and graft parts from other gundam kits onto it, you are kitbashing.

This might need to be outlined better in the Build Grades. Since people are mixing up Kitbash and Scratch build pretty badly, and if we follow the idea that "Every gundam has a model kit." in this Roleplay. No one would need to make a scratch build unless the idea is completely 100% original in nature.
Build Fighter - Alex Knight / Gunpla - RGM-79Q GM Quel / Total BG - 121
Build Fighter - Kyle Driscoll / Gunpla - MMS-01 Serpent Custom / GT-9600 Leopard / Total BG - 110

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Turinu
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I should also make mention of this. Taking into the fact the Gunpla Cockpit, I assume there's also actually some programming involved in the functionality of a Gunpla, and this most likely translates through the GP Base. So Builders are actually actively programming their Gunpla on top of designing the parts, for competition.

Otherwise, the options to choose various modes and abilities through the cockpit wouldn't translate well. I also think systems such as the EXAM or Trans-AM can be programmed in, but for things such as I-Fields it actually looks like this is achieved through some special anti-plavsky paint if I remember the episode at the Inn?

Simplifying things, some features can be programmed in, while others take a bit of skill to pull off.
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Arithion Ashvor
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I thought it was obvious the GP Base holds all the information for the Gunpla. This means what abilities you have to choose from, what it shows you on your holographic controls. Likely the GP Base is something you buy, then setup after connecting it to a computer. From there it has a program which you run through and enter the information, along with put in the Gunpla's abilities.

In Meijin vs Meijin, the Gundam F91's mouth shoots a beam out of it. When there is no clear modification to let it do it. Most likely the GP base has the feature listed and programed that into the Gunpla when the match started.
Edited by Arithion Ashvor, Jun 1 2015, 09:39 PM.
Build Fighter - Alex Knight / Gunpla - RGM-79Q GM Quel / Total BG - 121
Build Fighter - Kyle Driscoll / Gunpla - MMS-01 Serpent Custom / GT-9600 Leopard / Total BG - 110

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Superscope
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Actually the F91's mouth can open and fire normally as it is in spec of the orginal. Seabrook used that attack as the finisher against that giant mobile armor that looks like a flower. The build fighter version looked modded however (seemed to be far stronger, charge up time plus a blinding effect).

I agree with the GP base thing by the way. I mean how would you model effects like exam and what not for effective combat. The question i have however is the cost to perform ratio for effects. Different modes would have different effects on particle drain and such.
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juncti0n
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Well, I aimed to start a discussion. Seemed it worked. So, lemme weigh in on a few things in no particular order:

On the issue of Scratch Builds: as I understood it, Scratch Build originally meant any Gunpla that featured a cut or spliced (and therefore original) part. When Gunpla moved away from glue to snap assemblies the common usage of the term changed, but I used the original definition here.

On the issue of AI Control: I assumed that the need to program for special features was intuitive as well. Otherwise there would be zero point at all to the GP Base. However, the Gunpla still has to be built to accomodate the feature. The GP Base provides the software, but the Gunpla itself is the hardware. You can program your software to do whatever you darn well like, but if the hardware can't keep up then you've got nothing.

Particularly this is relevant to GN Drives in Gunpla. 00 MS have a great many translucent parts, and note that the G-Portent made extensive use of GN Fields and had an even higher number of translucent parts. Plavsky particles and GP Base software only enhance what's there. Requiring the GN Drive cone to be present for the GP Base to recognize seems redundant when the Drive already possessed the plastic molding and translucent panels to function under the above outline.

As for performance ratio costs: There doesn't need to be a fixed ratio. Remember this is not meant to be a rule proposal, this thread exists to explain how and why shit works in the Gunplaverse.

However it's not hard to imagine the ratios involved. EXAM involves reaction time increases, and thus would need particle storage near thrusters. Simply using metal thruster joints would permit particle storage that when activated, would be released through the plastic thruster nozzle. Trans-Am has a particular need for quick particle release, so a translucent arm guard could be connected to a plastic fist to get the Tri Burning. So on and so forth.
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Arithion Ashvor
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Superscope
Jun 2 2015, 07:39 AM
Actually the F91's mouth can open and fire normally as it is in spec of the orginal. Seabrook used that attack as the finisher against that giant mobile armor that looks like a flower. The build fighter version looked modded however (seemed to be far stronger, charge up time plus a blinding effect).

I agree with the GP base thing by the way. I mean how would you model effects like exam and what not for effective combat. The question i have however is the cost to perform ratio for effects. Different modes would have different effects on particle drain and such.
That was the F91's venting system, releasing the heat built up in the mobile suit. Since the F91's systems cause alot of heat, the mask opens to help vent that. Which also helps with the forming of the after images. No mouth beam cannon for the standard F91 sadly.

Also are we following Gundam Build Fighters, or Gundam Build Fighters Try? Because in Try, they introduce particle limits and reserves into Gunpla, which is why clear parts are needed to store more particles. Where as in the first season this isn't something that is said, which do we follow? That being said if we follow the plot armor of particle limits and reserves, that would make GN Drive gunpla a must, since they get to generate a infinite amount of particles because of how GN Drives work.

That came to mind since we are talking about how things in Gundam Build Fighters work. But the particle system is quite different from First Season to Second Season.
Edited by Arithion Ashvor, Jun 2 2015, 01:23 PM.
Build Fighter - Alex Knight / Gunpla - RGM-79Q GM Quel / Total BG - 121
Build Fighter - Kyle Driscoll / Gunpla - MMS-01 Serpent Custom / GT-9600 Leopard / Total BG - 110

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Turinu
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GN Drives in Gunpla Build Fighters or Build Fighters Try do not have limitless energy supplies.

That would be the difference between Gundam Tech / Gunpla Tech.

It's something that can be done in universe through Gundam Tech, but something Gunpla Tech can not reproduce. They can be used however as a focal point of sorts for plavsky particles for various systems such as Trans-AM, as well as a storage medium for particles. Compared to other units for sure, they have more plavsky particles due to the GN drive, but not infinite.
Edited by Turinu, Jun 2 2015, 02:25 PM.
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Lord Kazuar
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Seeing as how we're technically working off the same universe as the anime, I'd assume we'd go by Season 2 "rules" appropriately. Although Build Fighters is no different from other Gundams. It's a mix of reality, fiction, and bullshit, so really we can set whatever laws we need :D
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Turinu
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This guy with the shades and a really 70's hairstyle is making some real sense.
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Superscope
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I'm also guessing that weapons would be using equiviant values between the metaverse to avoid power creep in the worse ways, otherwise everybody would simply play 5th Gen GN drive Gundams and overpower any noobs in early UC era suits or people in Turn A's rocking it with moonlight butterflies and black hole powered weapony, pretty much killing creativity right there and then. GN Rifle would equal Beam Rifle, GN Buster Rifle would equal a High-Output Beam Rifle, etc.
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Hoji Namukara | Gunpla - KoS-12 "Crusader" | Total BG - 104

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Turinu
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Well, that technically applies to the Gunpla themselves. We've seen early UC units go toe to toe with units that would be far superior to them. Here, you can't just exclaim "Oh that Exia is going to wreck that GM Command because tech differences." There isn't actually much difference between the two, technically, in terms of kit construction. Performance levels actually only start differing when customization and detail come into play. The more detailed and well-made your Gunpla, the higher its performance becomes.

I actually made this as an example (though ultimately didn't use it) in the early stages of the board in regards to how details and such play an effect on Gunpla performance:

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Took it from actual screenshots of the anime and then just molded it all together.

Might work on this again in the future. Who knows.

Oh yeah, also made cool stuff like this:

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Edited by Turinu, Jun 4 2015, 08:06 AM.
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ajax
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tur i need a gp base for asami now :3
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