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| Round 0; The birth of Korok and Kokiri | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 4 2015, 02:15:32 PM (268 Views) | |
| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 02:15:32 PM Post #1 |
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Princess of Bugs
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Okay, so here is the first 'big thoughts' discussion thread, which I'll break down into Rounds. This round starts at the opening of the Hyrule forum, and ends at the start of the first challenge. After discussion, I'll pipe in the questions from other threads, and I'll cap it all off by taking a full set of screenshots of all my PM discussions so far. Hoping to make this a habit, and do one of these threads each round, but it may instead be a weekly habit, and encompass any rounds that occurred during that week. We'll see where I find the time. Now, first let's discuss the only real mechanics question I can see: having two tribes of 12 in a game for 24 players. Additionally, starting the game off with a full 60+ hours to just get to know our tribe, which is more than twice the usual time. Now, it's been suggested that the extra time is just to make up for how huge our tribes are, or to compensate for the game popping up out of nowhere in the queue, filling so quickly, and the desire to time the first challenge when everyone can be around, namely a Sunday afternoon. That's definitely a possible explanation and I can't discount it. However, in a game of Survivor, simply taking the simplest explanation, and refusing to consider others does you a disservice. You don't want to fall down the rabbithole of baseless speculation, I get that -- but if you don't consider the game from a 'how does this suit the mechanics and twists planned in the game' standpoint, you're just setting yourself up to be taken entirely unawares by them when they happen. And yeah, I think we all heard that this game will be twist-lite, but let's look at the situation we have: already, at the very start of the game two unusual things are happening. When has there ever been a tribe larger than 8 that wasn't unusual? The only case I can think of in the show was Heroes vs Villains, and that was still smaller than our current set-up. There is clearly something going on here. Even if it's just a simple matter of the twist being really really ridiculously big. So why not consider other possibilities? Okay, so with that rambling explanation of why I'm looking so indepth when others may not, let's look at my two theories on the tribes: 1 - This entire round 0 phase is a mash of two other games' round 0 phases, namely Game of Thrones, and Mass Effect. In Mass Effect, we started the game with 24 players, and no tribes at all, with some time to get to know everyone. The first challenge was a live 'pick up your buffs' challenge where everyone scrambled to sort themselves into a group that they could survive and compete in. In Game of Thrones, there were three tribes that lasted only until the first challenge. During the first challenge, each tribe chose 3 players to compete on their behalf, and the winning three players (okay, I don't remember it that well, so this is kind of a guess) ended up winning some sort of reward, and then the tribes were broken evenly into a new set of three tribes? If you cut those two down the middle, you get a similar fake-out/meet your competition phase. It's less overwhelming than Mass Effect, but also less surprising for an early swap than Game of Thrones. Overall, if this twist goes as I'm expecting, I'd like to say that this is a really good call by the modding team. Getting to talk to players who will end up on other tribes for most of the game is a great way to create the bonds that prevent pagonging bs. Not forcing players to have to do this from the whole playerbase makes it more likely that they'll reach out further than a small circle of friends anyways. As long as we don't end up choosing our own tribes during the inevitable swap (because I really don't like how that ended up in MES, mostly), we'll have a game where players all start out with bonds on each side of the tribal lines, and only more can occur with each swap that happens as the game progresses. The other possibility is that we're looking at being in these tribes for a few rounds, and the idea behind it is to try out the novelty of having really big tribes. If that's the case I'll be a little disappointed, and how can I not be after just gushing about my other theory, but this will still be an interesting case to pursue. Honestly, though, if I'm just to look to how this tribe is shaping out, I think that we could probably attend around 4 tribal councils before an interesting discussion ends up happening. There are that many players on the lower end of the scale that each of the higher players will likely work with each other to be rid of them, and no real conflict will occur for awhile. But I guess I'm not complaining about that -- I'm sitting in one of the best possitions to just ride it out, as far as I'm aware. |
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| Bomber | Jan 4 2015, 02:23:25 PM Post #2 |
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![]() So you think you are going to be put in other tribes now? Does that affect your current strategy? Are you going to try to make some strong bonds before the potential swap or just wait and see who your new tribemates will be, if there's a swap? |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 02:33:40 PM Post #3 |
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Princess of Bugs
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Making bonds now, as I'll detail in a second (busy typing up another big post), but yeah, I'm keeping my eye open for the likelihood that a swap is incoming today or soon after. |
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 03:34:24 PM Post #4 |
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Princess of Bugs
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Sorry if these are all really boring. The easiest way for me to do these is to just type and type as I'm thinking, and not really go back and edit, or I'll end up never hitting 'submit'. Anyways, now let's talk about each of the players in my tribe, and maybe a few key ones in the Koroks. (In rough order of how strong I feel the player is in this game) - The high-tier players Anju - It feels like most of the 'main 6' of the tribe really like Anju and would likely choose to work with her closely. She's certainly approachable and seems to have a solid head for game discussion. Doesn't have the personality that really draws you in that Tetra has, but that works in her favour a bit too. A more generic appearance means you have less of a target on your back and helps you to drift into the shadows if needed. I think Anju has some real flexibility to either be in power, or to let those in power just work the way she wants by joining in the discussion and steering it in ways she likes. I've already seen her working an angle like that, when she likely hid her involvement with Tetra from me when we were still in that 'getting to know you' phase before an alliance was brought up. It's a close call as for whether she or Tetra are the stronger player, but I think I'll give the edge to Anju for now. My solution: It will be difficult to enact any plan to take Anju out. She's well-liked all around, but not in a way that people are gonna think of her as a jury threat yet. Later in the game, I expect her to have a solid powerbase around her so that she'll be unassailable by the time people start worrying about her. I'm taking any steps I can to infiltrate into her closest circles. When the time comes, I'll be the one to expose her weakness by becoming that weakness. Tetra - She's a girl that could win this game. But I dunno. Her strength here is her weakness, too. Now, she's had a day or two of time where she wasn't on much, so it's very possible she doesn't have the strongest bonds with a lot of players, but I know Volvagia had yesterday that she wasn't around at all, and I've had time here and there where I wasn't responding too quickly as well. And Navi, for that matter. It's not an uncommon occurance, and I think that's largely because no one's rushed to do all their talking at once when we had such a huge deadline. Anju's the only big player I think who's been on her game the whole time. However, while Anju has reliablility in response time and volume, Tetra has more bang for her buck in quality. Tetra has the sort of personality that just grabs you. You'll see it when I post PMs. She grabbed me right away, and I wanted to work with her from our first messages. Of course, I also saw (and expected) a similar reaction out of anyone that I talked to about her. She is magnetic, in a way. Which makes her a clear threat. She's the OTP personality of the tribe, and ignoring me, probably the main one. If she grabs power, she's likely to keep it fairly easily. If she ends up in a moment of weakness, it's likely others will fall upon her and tear her up. It could go very good or very bad for her, this game. My solution: I'm handling her and Anju similarly, which really helps that the three of us are allied together. I'm actually a bit cautious that it's a Tetra/Anju core, with myself on the first ring, and Volvagia on the second ring, but at the very least, I'm pretty sure Volvy's acting as a buffer for me, should things fall apart in the alliance. In addition to the 'stay close to your enemies' mantra I'm following here, I've been making it clear to everyone just how well-liked Tetra is. And why. I think it'll be apparent to anyone who plays that Tetra has to go before long. She's the target that keeps attention off of me. She's doing me a big favour, right now. Largely, I need to have Anju out before her, because I can't hide behind Anju's less threatening appearance. But I'll take either one, if the moment comes. Volvagia - She started out very strong with me. Easily could have topped my list, but the past couple days she's never really been on. Like with Tetra, she had a good reason. Real life issues come first. However, that doesn't really do much to dissuade from the impression that she may have just benefitted from an early burst of manic energy. Here's what I know about her though: she's got a good ear for discourse. Conversations with her feel the most natural, even though we rarely talk game. I think she has a sort of underrated social game. She may never be anyone's top ally, but she'll be in your closer circle every time. My solution: This one happens to be as simple as never forget that she's there. I think Volvagia is just the sort of player I could forget about and let tag along until she either makes a move, or is seen as a goat. Not that she's playing a weak game, I'm just not sure if she has the strategic head on her yet. Either way, she's likely to have the smallest target of all the higher-calibur players. I dunno. I'm not great with UTR players, and I think that's what she may be playing. (Or not. Again, I am terrible with them, so this could easily be a case of gross misidentification!) Navi - Navi is overlooked by other players. Even so, I think she's deservedly on the same level as the ones I've already mentioned. She's a bit fluffier than the others, but I think she's always thinking about the angles, and I expect to see her show off her chops soon. My solution: Navi, I think, makes the best ally to stick with that I can see from this tribe of players. I can't tell whether she's likely to be the sort to stay loyal or not, so that's my first concern right now, but I performed a little test where I voiced some suspicions I had had of her, and saw how she reacted. She did well, by first producing a little evidence of her loyalty (though I can see how it could be easily tampered with, let's be honest) and then immediately downplaying the paranoia and progressing without showing any resulting distrust. I did this at a time where I knew I had the fall-back plan of my Anju/Tetra/Volvagia alliance should Navi be soured by that move, but if it worked, I could be a little more certain of my trust in her. For now, she's the player I'm working closest with. I'm hoping to see a lot of good come of it. Epona - Epona... I'm not sure about, to be honest. There are inklings of some real cleverness going on, but a lot of it is obfuscated by how she's responded to me lately. I figured there were one of two things going on here - either she's playing a laid-back game for now, and not investing much in the early social game, or she's got someone on the side (or more likely, I'm her someone on the side). It really does feel like I'm not getting her full attention, and that I'm a bit of a distraction for her. We talk about trivialities, almost entirely. But let's be honest, here: if that's the case, it's entirely mutual. She's second, both to my bigger alliance with the power players, and even in our small alliance with Navi. Navi is the player I wanted to work with because I trust her capability and hope for loyalty with. Epona is the player I don't expect to make a big move or fall out of the alliance for a grab of power. My solution: Well, all I feel I needed to do, with regards to Epona, is to keep a weather eye on her. If I can figure out if and who her other partner is, I can cut that tie before it's an issue for me. If there is no tie, then keeping her around only benefits my and Navi's game from here on. (from here, we're getting into subjective guessing) The mid-tier players Barinade - I can't decide if Bari is a potential high-tier playing a very soft game, or if maybe he's running in another circle, or if he's just got a weaker social game. He's not bad, by any means, but he's lacking certain cues and behaviours that the strongest social players have. He doesn't make efforts to push a conversation through into continuation himself. He doesn't appear to be solidifying any of the bonds he's created so far. Maybe he's playing a slow-start game. For now, he's just something to watch in case he starts playing harder. Shiek - I think I know who Shiek is. He doesn't seem to have much of a care for the social aspect of the game, and this is the main thing that will bite him in the ass. You cannot win on challenge performance. It will never happen, unless you bolster your social and strategic games, as well. Shiek is this high, because some of his comments have led me to think that he's slowly learning this, and after the first challenge, he may pick up his messages and make a greater effort to play that aspect of the game. At the very least, he's playing one part of the game, which isn't something I can be sure about the low-tier players I'll bring up soon. No need to discuss my solution to this guy, because I've been burned trying to work with this sort of player in the past, and I don't see him doing anything to upset my game in the near future. I'll use him as a vote if I can, but after that he's quite expendable. Low-tiers (sorry, but there's not much to say about any of these players) Bow-Wow - likely first boot. No contact with so far. Kafei - has ally in Navi. Otherwise, very weak social game. One-liners, doesn't bring up gametalk. Happy Mask Salesman (or HMS Creepy Am I just jealous that he got the character choice I was hoping for, and he's not really using it as well as I think I would have? Maybe. Others seem to like him okay. Meh. Mido - Meh. Not as bad as some other low-tiers. Not good enough that it matters. |
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 03:38:26 PM Post #5 |
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Princess of Bugs
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LOL, I meant to type OTT. I think that freudian slip is all the proof you need that I really like Tetra. |
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 03:41:02 PM Post #6 |
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Princess of Bugs
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Okay, let's look at the Koroks. Overall, this is just a guess as to their ranking, and it's mostly based on post-count. Dampe - very likeable Ruto Link - much less likeable. Very OTT Zelda Midna Colin Eldin Tingle Medli Auru Skullkid Vaati |
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 03:42:40 PM Post #7 |
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Princess of Bugs
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Okay, that leaves me with an hour and such to answer all your questions! One sec as I get them all lined up! |
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Bomber | Jan 4 2015, 03:48:21 PM Post #8 |
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![]() Just kidding that was very interesting keep it up <3 |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 03:53:22 PM Post #9 |
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Princess of Bugs
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If that were true, I would have to take your side. None of that looks interesting enough to read, from my perspective. I cannot blame anyone who gets shit of my rambling bullshit and decides to skip it. <3 |
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 03:54:43 PM Post #10 |
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Princess of Bugs
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*gets sick FUCK AGITHA GET YOUR SICK TOGETHER |
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Bomber | Jan 4 2015, 03:59:52 PM Post #11 |
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Don't say that, it was an amazing read. We only get information from confessional posts and that one contained a lot of information so it was really great. BUT STILL GET YOUR SICK TOGETHER |
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| Farore | Jan 4 2015, 04:00:42 PM Post #12 |
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Goddess of Actually Doing Things
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| Farore's rich soul created all life forms who would uphold the law. | |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 04:31:42 PM Post #13 |
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Princess of Bugs
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#1) Well, I think I've done this question justice above. Even so, here's a small summary: I like Tetra, but she's a clear threat. I like Anju, but she's a subtle threat. I like Volvagia. I like Navi, and she's my choice of ally. I like Epona, but she feels like she's distracted. Little bit using her as a goat. I don't know what Barinade's deal is. Seems like he's only half-playing the game. I think I know what Shiek's deal is. He's clearly not putting enough focus on the key aspects of the game. The rest of them are fodder. #2) I really don't know yet! I've suggested that this round 0 phase is a psych-out for an early swap, and I expect a second swap to occur to keep that effect strong. Or, maybe the theme of this game is a big tribe! That would also be interesting. Other than that, I can't really tell enough from the flavour/theme or any clues left so far. We're currently in tribes based on the same native peoples, but at different stages in time. Could that mean something? There's weirdly 4 or 5 (depending on if you count the graphic on the right side of the banner) triforces in the banner. And they're left-centered, so the number seems significant. What does that mean? Ooo, there's a lot to do with timelines and split branches in the LoZ universe. Could the twists be drawn from that? I don't know, but I'll be keeping my eyes open for mor clues. #3)Honestly, I was initially looking for a character I thought exist. I thought there was a little girl that started the Poe-collecting quest in TP. But there's just Agitha, and that statue dude. I must have mixed them. Still, she suited the 'recognizable, yet containing a bit of personality demand that I have for my characters'. I was also hoping to draw from the contrasting cute/creepy vibe she has. But to be completely, honest, I think I was hoping to get the Happy Mask Salesman. He's kinda my favourite LoZ character. I have theories that he'll be back in some future game as a big bad. He's just so almost-definitely evil! And it looks like his arc in MM is just a foreshadowing for something soon! *nerding so hard r/n* 1. The plan right now is twofold: expect something unexpected, and something expected. Prepare for both. How I'm doing that is by getting close to all the power players, and dividing them into two groups by threat-level to me. Then, once seperated, I align with both groups, and put myself in a position where I'm fairly well suited to recover after any swap, or remain unassailable if no swap. No swap would be a bit boring, but safe. Swap would be a bit riskier, as I could get just the worst sort. I'm probably a bit better suited to creating ties in the lower tiers, too, but that's boring and I DUN WANNA. 2. Kinda did this. Just read my player-centred post and focus on Tetra, Anju, and Navi. Maybe not in that order? Maybe Tetra, Navi, and Anju, then. 3. YEPYEPYEP. Moving on. 2. As long as it's amusing, I don't mind a lot. Otherwise, I can googlesearch all the fanart I want. It's a bit of a distraction, so you gotta make it a distraction worth having. Quality over quantity. I may be a total hypocrite, though. 3. Link. You all know why. It's just too uncomfortable, and I'm really hoping he's gone before we end up on a tribe together. Not that I don't sympathize, but I'd much rather not have to deal with that ick. First of all, what a dumb name for the sake of alliteration. Try harder, please. I'm settling in just fine. I think I'll be safe until a swap, and for how I play, that's gonna suit me just fine. I think I'm fairly well-liked. I'm less annoying than I've been in other incarnations, but I'm hoping that Tetra is casting a big enough shadow that I'm not an obvious social threat. Also, is anyone else in the game in two strong alliances? I doubt it. But then, I have literally no idea how Korok is shaping up. Mad speculation, here. I'm really hoping I'm not at the top of the list. I've been trying to measure that out, and I'm hoping that I'm second or third, right now. I know there's been a lot of variance over the mid/low tiers, but for the high tiers, I think it might go like: Tetra Anju/Agitha Epona/Volvagia Navi Barinade Okay. This is easy, and the top boot is so simple, I wouldn't even have to think about it, or worry about it being messed up by a lack of discussion. Bow-Wow Mido HMS Kafei Shiek Barinade (get rid of the weak before a swap) Anju Tetra Volvagia Epona Navi (once a first swap happens, these Anju/Tetra jump into the fore. This is when I have to worry about how strong they are, or will be soon) |
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 04:32:40 PM Post #14 |
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Princess of Bugs
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RE: any questions where you ask me which is my favourite Mod or Spectator - My fave will automatically be the one who doesn't ask me that question. |
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 04:34:50 PM Post #15 |
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Princess of Bugs
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I'll get to the screenshots later. Very little time before the challenge. |
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Bomber | Jan 4 2015, 04:38:31 PM Post #16 |
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![]() Jk jk that was really interesting again. Would you consider yourself a leader or a follower? |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 04:40:00 PM Post #17 |
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Princess of Bugs
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Leader. I don't follow so well. It's a personal failing. |
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 06:15:18 PM Post #18 |
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Princess of Bugs
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Read each of these from the bottom, up. TETRA ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 06:16:48 PM Post #19 |
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Princess of Bugs
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You can open those in another window or whatever to read them better. |
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 06:35:57 PM Post #20 |
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Princess of Bugs
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ANJU![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 06:38:29 PM Post #21 |
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Princess of Bugs
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Are those completely illegible for you specs, or should I continue? |
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Malon | Jan 4 2015, 09:38:12 PM Post #22 |
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8LUH 8LUH
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I can read them! Please, carry on! |
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| Agitha | Jan 4 2015, 09:55:00 PM Post #23 |
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Princess of Bugs
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Okay, one more for tonight, and then I'll do some more tomorrow. VOLVAGIA ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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I know you have bugs... Check out some music! | |
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| Din | Jan 5 2015, 10:45:04 AM Post #24 |
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Goddess of Love and Peace (lol)
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This is legendary. |
| Din's strong flaming arms cultivated the land and created the red earth. | |
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| Saria | Jan 6 2015, 12:32:33 AM Post #25 |
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Never seen this done before Saria is really pleased! |
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