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The Random Topic; Come... be Random!
Topic Started: Dec 5 2007, 06:29 PM (35,873 Views)
TheDeepDark
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I don't know as 'escape' is the best term for it though. It's not like the planet vents it into space. It definitely moves around though, good old thermodynamics keeping us above absolute freezing.

All the more reason it was funny that article I read while living in Pacific Grove out in Cali that mentioned the weather being "predictably unpredictable." As far as I can tell because it was less foggy some days, and more foggy other days? temperature was 50s to 60s regardless so that's the only 'unpredictable' I could come up with.
Pretty sure it's still like that there right now.

And to be fair we didn't have as many truly cold days this winter (or so far this swinter) as in years past here.
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Snofox Kari
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well, we do have convection heating :> lol

but let's not nitpick on words >n> technically speaking it escapes the area, doesn't mean it leaves the atmosphere XP

i'd say the weather is normally predictably unpredictable, though :Y how often is the weatherman right? slightly more than the groundhog on groundhog day, but i'd say, not significantly XD

ahh, so overall winters are still warmer than usual in many places (excepting the areas that got hit with the most horrible snow stroms recently)
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towr
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TheDeepDark
Mar 23 2013, 11:36 PM
I don't know as 'escape' is the best term for it though. It's not like the planet vents it into space.
Eventually all heat radiates out into space though. We get radiation heat from the sun, and we radiate out a 'lower quality' heat (i.e. more entropy). The greenhouse effect makes it so that we need to be hotter than before to radiate out as much heat as we get from the sun (plus a bit extra from nuclear fission within the earth and left-over heat from its formation).
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TheDeepDark
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And because it's tenuously related and I still find it funny,
I present the Three Laws of Thermodynamics as explained to me by David Morgan-Mar (here)

DMM
 
1. The First Law of Thermodynamics states that energy is conserved. You can't create energy from nothing, nor can you destroy it. Since heat is a form of energy, you're stuck with it, unless you convert it into some other form of energy or move it away. Since you can't get something for nothing: You can't win.
2. The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that heat will only flow from a region of higher temperature to one of lower temperature. To move it the other way, you need to supply some extra external energy to do the work. So moving energy in any useful direction that doesn't happen naturally requires you to put in additional energy. You can't even use the First Law and say "the total heat content is equal, so just move the heat from the cold place to the hot place" - it won't happen: You can't break even.
However, the efficiency with which you move energy around is related to the temperature. The colder the better. If you could get to absolute zero, you could break even, just. But:
3. The Third Law of Thermodynamics states that it's impossible to reach absolute zero. As you make a system approach absolute zero, the process that you are using to cool it down slows down. It sucks smaller and smaller amounts of heat away (and you're using tons of energy to power this über-refrigerator), and you can never suck away that last bit of heat to get it to absolute zero. Since you can't even get to the place where the Second Law lets you do things with 100% efficiency: You can't get out of the game.
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towr
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I'm not sure that third one is correct..

Besides, recently scientists reached a temperature below absolute zero :lol:
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/science/gas-atoms-cooled-below-absolute-zero-333044.html
(So much for absolutes)
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TheDeepDark
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Heh. Absolutes described by humans are silly. Like we know.

Still, that is definitely interesting.
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Snofox Kari
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i never quite understood why people made such hype over absolute zero...but as i understand it, the part that's impossible to reach is knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are no digits past the decimal point and THAT is what is unreachable since you either get a value below it or above it, but never absolutely at that point... (sometimes scientists obsess over the most ridiculous things....ok, very often)
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TheDeepDark
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I'm still a little, well kind of a lot, unsure of the science saying they passed below absolute zero and actually have this 'infinitely' hot gas - as my understanding of 'absolute zero' that means we still can't get there. Because at absolute zero all motion, even sub-atomic, ceases. And that sounds nothing at all like what those scientists are saying they got.
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towr
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It's quantum mechanics, it's weird.

This article might explain it better.
Basically maximum temperature = maximum entropy; if you force atoms to an even higher energy level, then entropy has to decrease, because there are fewer states for them to occupy. So you can reach a point where heating (adding energy) decreases entropy, the opposite of what happens at normal (positive) temperatures.
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Snofox Kari
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i still can't imagine subatomic particles ever sitting still 100%
but people always invent new ways to look at things XD
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towr
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Due to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle if a particle was absolutely still, it would have to be everywhere at once (or perhaps, rather, it has an equal probability of being anywhere at all).
Great for fast travel ;) If you want to get somewhere quickly, don't move!
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Snofox Kari
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yes, don't move and the world will move around you :D

WARP SPEED AHEAD
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TheDeepDark
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towr
Mar 27 2013, 06:18 AM
If you want to get somewhere quickly, don't move!
At least as long as you don't care where it is you end up.
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Snofox Kari
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are you thinking...6 feet under?

cuz...we all end up there eventually, anyway :Y inescapable, really....

...but i guess slow and steady wins the race? ^^;
Edited by Snofox Kari, Mar 29 2013, 01:01 AM.
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towr
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No, he means that indeterminacy literally means you don't know where you end up. Though considering the universe at large it will likely not be a place hospitable to life. But it's more likely to be somewhere in space rather than under the surface of a planet.
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