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The Random Topic; Come... be Random!
Topic Started: Dec 5 2007, 06:29 PM (35,867 Views)
TheDeepDark
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You should correct that really, Mulan is one of the good ones. I could really leave Little Mermaid - though at least Eric is actually useful.
Edited by TheDeepDark, May 23 2013, 01:16 AM.
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Elystriana
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Yeah, I wasn't all that fond of The Little Mermaid either.
Mulan's on my bucket list of things to watch.........my currently rather long bucket list of things to watch.....
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TheDeepDark
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Unfortunately it's difficult for it to shrink faster than it grows too.

I need to watch The Princess Bride again. it's been a good long while
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Elystriana
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Yeah- especially since I don't have much free time for watching them right now... :unsure:

The Princess Bride is a good one- and one of the few (in my opinion) where the movie is better than the book.
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Snofox Kari
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i have all those except tangled...never woulda guessed any songs from it XD

reflection is among my favorite songs, though o: i remember liking the movie just for that XD
just be warned watching Mulan, disney doesn't do too much research and it can be hard to tell if they're Chinese or Japanese at times XD (it's supposed to happen in China, though)
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TheDeepDark
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<snerk> Yes, well.
Just so long as you don't confuse the two around any chinese or japanese, it's not Too bad...
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towr
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Snofox Kari
May 28 2013, 12:37 PM
just be warned watching Mulan, disney doesn't do too much research and it can be hard to tell if they're Chinese or Japanese at times XD (it's supposed to happen in China, though)
Can you give any examples of supposed mistakes they made?
Because a) I think Disney actual does do a fair bit of research, and b) from the small bit of googling I did so far, the only things I've seen people point out as mistakes weren't*. And mostly c) I'm curious.

* Mostly I've seen comments that the style of dress, hair, armour etc looks more like what we now consider Japanese than what we now associate with the Chinese; but the Japanese borrowed that style from the Chinese in the first place. It's accurate with respect to the time the story is set in (i.e. Disney does better research than many of its audience).
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Snofox Kari
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yeah, those things confused me since i was little...and various Chinese (yes 100% from China) friends have actually criticized those points to death, so i don't know where you're getting your own information, but i take mine from the source: people who have studied their own heritage

in the end Chinese, Japanese, and Korean cultures have all borrowed from each other at some point, just as plenty other adjacent cultures have done, but they do regard their differences with what is important to each as a distinct culture even with the similarities (i guess you could call same difference there, but even the slightest difference in the similarities is of great importance)

besides some of what you mentioned, a really big one (even if a small detail) is number of claws on a dragon...Mushu has 4 on his hands and 2 on his feet, all of which should be 5 (but it's a cartoon and most cartoon creatures have less than 5 digits anyway, so it's not really as big an issue lol )

but yes...all of the above, and from more direct sources
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towr
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Snofox Kari
May 29 2013, 03:13 PM
yeah, those things confused me since i was little...and various Chinese (yes 100% from China) friends have actually criticized those points to death, so i don't know where you're getting your own information, but i take mine from the source: people who have studied their own heritage
From random people on the internet! Who can, however, name the Chinese and Japanese variant, so it is possible to check. e.g. Is Mulan wearing a Hanfu (chinese) or Kimono (japanese)? We can check that; and we can check that they're similar.*
I put little stock in people from any country to know their heritage, unless they actually do study it. I like verifiable facts; opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and they all smell.


* convenient reference
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towr
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Snofox Kari
May 29 2013, 03:13 PM
besides some of what you mentioned, a really big one (even if a small detail) is number of claws on a dragon...Mushu has 4 on his hands and 2 on his feet, all of which should be 5 (but it's a cartoon and most cartoon creatures have less than 5 digits anyway, so it's not really as big an issue lol )
Stone dragons in a temple in Fuzhou can clearly been seen to have 4 claws on their forelimbs. (And wikipedia has more examples of it.)
So, yeah, not buying the "always five" rule.

I would find it rather surprising if such an immense country would be consistent in such a matter, to be honest.

Let's also note that it's very, very easy to claim someone or other hasn't done their research without doing any research of one's own to find out whether that's actually true or not.
For example to prove whether Mushu is depicted wrongly (now that we have established that 5 claws is not an axiom of Chinese dragons) would require finding out how dragons where represented in the time and place where Disney has placed Mulan. Which is easier said than done. And it'd be easier to prove he's correct (if he is) than that he isn't (if he isn't); because you only need to find one that matches to prove he is, and you need to find a representative sample of many to credibly claim he isn't.
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TheDeepDark
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And I don't mean to decry anyone's work, but Kari it also occurs to me-

Chinese people are very loathe to admit any similarity to Japan. I have been shocked more than once by discovering that otherwise perfectly rational amazing friends start seeing red and looking for the torches and pitchforks cuz I mentioned connection between them and Japan.
Though there could be any number of far less tasteless reasons for the discrepancies being actively discussed as well. I'm not stupid enough to assume that because I know some Chinese people who are, that all are by any means. I also know a handful who deliberately moved to Japan to work or study, so.
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Snofox Kari
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but see, that's my point, even if there is only a very small difference, it's an important one culturally

heck, everyone in the world borrowed from someone else, that doesn't make everyone the same culture, some are more distinct than others.. but for ones with fewer distinctions, those tiny differences carry more weight, you can't just lump them all in the same bin because they share similarities

and yes, it is 5 claws for Chinese dragons...then, if i remember correctly, Koreans have 4, and Japanese 3

it's important because Japanese see more claws for higher status, so if you mistakenly add claws to your dragon and you're just a lowly citizen, you will run into issues LOL

some say you add claws as you go west, others look at it as subtracting claws as you go east...same idea, though
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towr
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Snofox Kari
Jun 3 2013, 03:02 PM
and yes, it is 5 claws for Chinese dragons...then, if i remember correctly, Koreans have 4, and Japanese 3
Fuzhou IS in China (and quite a way from Korea and Japan, for that matter), which you might have checked before simply ignoring the counter-example. So, sorry, but no.

Additionally, to quote wikipedia on Chinese dragons:
Quote:
 
Historically, the dragon was the symbol of the Emperor of China. In the Zhou Dynasty, the 5-clawed dragon was assigned to the Son of Heaven, the 4-clawed dragon to the nobles (zhuhou, seigneur), and the 3-clawed dragon to the ministers (daifu). In the Qin Dynasty, the 5-clawed foot dragon was assigned to represent the Emperor while the 4-clawed and 3-clawed dragons were assigned to the commoners. The dragon in the Qing Dynasty appeared on national flags.
So I don't know how it was in Japan (haven't checked, might be the same), but this is the way it was in China. So there were 5-clawed, 4-clawed and 3-clawed (depictions of) dragons in China.
Mulan wasn't an imperial princess, so contrary to your claims it wasn't a mistake that Disney didn't give Mushu 5 claws on his hands.


I just don't get it. Why not just check before making a claim? And if not the first time around, why not at least the second time around when it's already in dispute (and, in fact, disproven)?
I just, really, don't get it.
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TheDeepDark
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FuZhou. Now there's a place - FuZhou city I think must be populated entirely by grandparents and toddlers, everybody between in some other country working and sending money back to them.
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Elystriana
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*completely changing the topic*

Sometimes I hate automatic upgrades. My computer upgraded from IE 9 to IE 10 between yesterday and today. There's not too many changes (except on one site I visit that had formatting problems in IE 9), but it's still annoying. :(
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