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The Random Topic; Come... be Random!
Topic Started: Dec 5 2007, 06:29 PM (36,002 Views)
Jack
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Same...so long as it's not pasteurized. Tastes horrible after they do THAT to it.
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Kari
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Jason
Mar 3 2009, 06:06 PM
Same...so long as it's not pasteurized. Tastes horrible after they do THAT to it.
yeah... i don't know why people ruin things like that :-/

:rolleyes: it's all better as is (most of the time) :unsure: :lol:
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Jack
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Right...most of the time. Raw milk is better than the storebought stuff too, to go along with the other 'most of the times'.
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Jason
Mar 4 2009, 06:01 PM
Right...most of the time. Raw milk is better than the storebought stuff too, to go along with the other 'most of the times'.
do you live or know someone who live on a farm? or works in one? :blink:
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Jack
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Used to. Started drinking raw milk and liked it better than the storebought stuff.

Come to think of it, I haven't been sick nearly as much since I started drinking it either...
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Jason
Mar 4 2009, 08:40 PM
Used to. Started drinking raw milk and liked it better than the storebought stuff.

Come to think of it, I haven't been sick nearly as much since I started drinking it either...
they tend to take out some vitamines when they get rid of the fat...

that nasty non-fat stuff...
we joke at home and call it aqua leche because it's so watered down

i don't why anyone would drink that...just drink water people! or real milk(but not tinted dirty water)

we don't drink that stuff but i know someone who does
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Jack
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LOL...'agua leche'? That's a pretty apt name...water milk. Well, the thing with raw milk is it has beneficial bacteria in it. The stuff you get at the store doesn't have any of that, and they also add substances that are known carcinogens...
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towr
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Last time I checked there was no scientific research to back up such health claims of raw milk, though. I think it was the opposite; but don't believe that either until you see a reference to back it up.
And at least around here, I'm pretty sure they don't add any carcinogens to milk. I know America is a bit more lax with adding weird stuff to food items, but it still sound like urban myth perpetuated by people that don't think a better taste is a good enough reason to prefer one food item over an other.

Also, the longer you life, the greater the chance you'll get cancer; so anything that makes you life longer also increases your chance of cancer :P
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towr
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Also, come to think of it, where do those supposed beneficial bacteria come from? The mammary glands of the cow should be sterile, unless she has infected udders. As secretions go it should be as sterile as urine is.
And I wouldn't expect any beneficial bacteria perse to grow in the milking machine if someone forgot to clean that. And generatio spontanea has been out of fashion since Pasteur. (But of course he's clearly evil for inventing pasteurization ;) )
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Jack
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BGH - bovine growth hormone to the uninitiated - has detrimental effects on the human body.

The milk itself perpetuates the growth of bacteria, both beneficial and detrimental. The beneficial bacteria gets to the intestine, where it becomes a part of the digestive system; the detrimental bacteria is attacked by the body's immune system.
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towr
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Jason
Mar 4 2009, 11:09 PM
BGH - bovine growth hormone to the uninitiated - has detrimental effects on the human body.
It gives girls big udders?
Well, it's illegal to give cows extra hormones here (the whole of the EU, even, I think). But either way, it's not a difference between raw or pasteurized milk. So it comes a bit out of the blue to mention it.

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The milk itself perpetuates the growth of bacteria, both beneficial and detrimental. The beneficial bacteria gets to the intestine, where it becomes a part of the digestive system; the detrimental bacteria is attacked by the body's immune system.
The body attacks beneficial and detrimental bacteria alike. If they enter the body (rather than remain in the intestinal tract, which is really just still the outside) they're all detrimental. And the acid in the stomach takes care of most of them fairly indiscriminately. And the ones that do reach the gut are outcompeted by the flora already there and so tend to have little to no effect on a healthy person with a healthy gut.

Considering the type of pathogens -- e.g. Campylobacter, E. coli, Listeria, Salmonella -- often found in raw milk, I'd rather have it pasteurized. But I only like it as an ingredient anyway, so it usually gets cooked in one way or another.
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nrd
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towr
Mar 4 2009, 10:29 PM
Last time I checked there was no scientific research to back up such health claims of raw milk, though. I think it was the opposite; but don't believe that either until you see a reference to back it up.
And at least around here, I'm pretty sure they don't add any carcinogens to milk. I know America is a bit more lax with adding weird stuff to food items, but it still sound like urban myth perpetuated by people that don't think a better taste is a good enough reason to prefer one food item over an other.

Also, the longer you life, the greater the chance you'll get cancer; so anything that makes you life longer also increases your chance of cancer :P
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger ;) :lol: :ninja:
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Jack
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towr
Mar 5 2009, 09:21 AM
Jason
Mar 4 2009, 11:09 PM
BGH - bovine growth hormone to the uninitiated - has detrimental effects on the human body.
It gives girls big udders?
Well, it's illegal to give cows extra hormones here (the whole of the EU, even, I think). But either way, it's not a difference between raw or pasteurized milk. So it comes a bit out of the blue to mention it.

Quote:
 
The milk itself perpetuates the growth of bacteria, both beneficial and detrimental. The beneficial bacteria gets to the intestine, where it becomes a part of the digestive system; the detrimental bacteria is attacked by the body's immune system.
The body attacks beneficial and detrimental bacteria alike. If they enter the body (rather than remain in the intestinal tract, which is really just still the outside) they're all detrimental. And the acid in the stomach takes care of most of them fairly indiscriminately. And the ones that do reach the gut are outcompeted by the flora already there and so tend to have little to no effect on a healthy person with a healthy gut.

Considering the type of pathogens -- e.g. Campylobacter, E. coli, Listeria, Salmonella -- often found in raw milk, I'd rather have it pasteurized. But I only like it as an ingredient anyway, so it usually gets cooked in one way or another.
The milk we get is off cows that haven't been treated with BGH.

The trick is, beneficial bacteria help force out the growth of pathogenic bacteria, so it's not in there. And the beneficial bacteria that make it to the intestine aren't forced out by the bacteria already there; they become a part of it.

I'm not saying that raw milk will cure all your ills and make your life far better - it's probably only really good for you if you don't have great health to begin with. But, if that's the case, you might as well drink kefir and forget about it.

:lol: I hate kefir.
Edited by Jack, Mar 5 2009, 01:16 PM.
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towr
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Jason
Mar 5 2009, 01:13 PM
The trick is, beneficial bacteria help force out the growth of pathogenic bacteria, so it's not in there. And the beneficial bacteria that make it to the intestine aren't forced out by the bacteria already there; they become a part of it.
How would that work exactly?
Milk is a very rich environment and hence there is little competition (not before it has turned solid, anyway). Therefore there's no cause for one species to force out another, good or bad. And on the contrary the intestines are a very competition rich environment, where established colonies of bacteria have absolutely no reason to accommodate newcomers (either good or bad, since it's not a distinction relevant to them). If all the space is taken, they have no place to go forth and multiply.

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I'm not saying that raw milk will cure all your ills and make your life far better - it's probably only really good for you if you don't have great health to begin with.
It seems like a particularly bad idea to me if you haven't got good health; what with the pathogens that science has demonstrated are in there 13% of the time. It's only slightly better odds than Russian roulette if your immune system is not up to dealing with them.
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Jack
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What you don't realize is that the human body can handle those pathogens.

It's what I tell people - don't bother washing out a scrape; let it bleed out. Let the body heal on its own, with as little outside intervention as possible. You end up stronger in the end.

I apply the same rule to vaccinations - because they have quite a nasty infection rate.
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