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The Random Topic; Come... be Random!
Topic Started: Dec 5 2007, 06:29 PM (35,925 Views)
Elystriana
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Guardian and Healer of the Silyena Woods
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Mmmm....not so good, then. And I can't do turn undead spells either. I suppose I could make walls of earth and they could wander mindlessly in there. I don't know...can they climb?
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Snofox Kari
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i don't think they have brains enough to think of climbing, they just walk straight into their food and wander about
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towr
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Defender of the pie
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Yeah, they're terrible climbers. The only thing to look out for is if there are so many they can form a ramp of trampled zombies. So while a high wall is a good protection, patrol it regularly to make sure they're not piling up.
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Elystriana
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That can be taken care of by burning the zombie pile-up into ashes. ;)
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TheDeepDark
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Where light goes to die
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Why must the world have this thing for $^&#%$ zombies!! I once tried to come up with a story about an unwilling necromancer...
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Snofox Kari
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Protector of the Winter Forest
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do tell o:
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towr
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TheDeepDark
May 30 2011, 09:18 PM
Why must the world have this thing for $^&#%$ zombies!!
Ewww..
Oh wait, which expletive did you mean there?

People just seem to have a thing for the undead in general; zombies, mummies, vampires, Jesus... :rolleyes:
Come to think of it, though, reanimated skeletons don't seem to be that popular (which isn't to say you don't encounter them plenty in RPGs, but I don't think I know any stories about them).
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Elystriana
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I actually prefer skeletons to zombies- less messy.

It's just, undead aren't...living. Which means I have no problem 'killing' them.
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towr
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Depends on what you mean by living. It's not an issue for most zombies or skeletons, but most vampires definitely count as sentient beings, even if they are undead. So killing them would still raise moral questions if they weren't typically evil to the core.
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Snofox Kari
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Protector of the Winter Forest
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you forgot ghosts :O


they'd have to have the 5? signs of life in order to be considered living

ahem

let's see if i remember the list D:

1. cells (check for all but ghosts)

2. homeostasis (i doubt any have this, though some might argue vampires could? maybe after meals, but i doubt changing temperatures bother them much)

3. reproduction (even if vampires can make people turn into other vampires, that can hardly be considered reproduction since their own DNA is not being reproduced, even if they make the other person mingle their blood, it's not the same...so looks like that's out)

4. resperation (i'm growing short on my list here, i dunno if there are 5 or 7 now, i just remember that i always come up short XP )

5. cell reproduction?

6 and 7? i have to check all these again XP
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TheDeepDark
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Snofox Kari
May 31 2011, 12:55 AM
do tell o:
Yeah, I had this whole thing where he'd be constantly torn because the world he existed in necromancy was pure evil, without question, but he'd keep finding himself in situations where'd be saving even hundreds of lives but the only way he could do so was by using necromancy (like raising a long-standing community's entire cemetery to fend off an army)
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towr
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Snofox Kari
May 31 2011, 08:01 PM
you forgot ghosts :O
Hmm, yeah. There's probably more (maybe from other cultures), but ghosts are a pretty big one to have missed.

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they'd have to have the 5? signs of life in order to be considered living
As far as I know there isn't really a scientific standard for what life is. Not one that scientists agree on, anyway. (For example some include viruses, others don't.) It's terribly easy to be chauvinistic about life having to be "our kind of life". Like saying it must have cells and DNA. But there may be thousands of other kinds of life somewhere out there in the vast universe.
Personally I'd be happy to recognize anything that clearly has a mind and purpose of it's own as alive. (Which is an entirely different criterion than biological ones.)

Wikipedia provides the following list (after the disclaimer that "it is still a challenge for scientists and philosophers to define life in unequivocal terms"):
-Homeostasis
-Organization
-Metabolism
-Growth
-Adaptation
-Response to stimuli
-Reproduction

Of other, proposed, definitions on that page, I like this one best:
"Living things are systems that tend to respond to changes in their environment, and inside themselves, in such a way as to promote their own continuation"
Although it may be a bit too broad.

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2. homeostasis (i doubt any have this, though some might argue vampires could? maybe after meals, but i doubt changing temperatures bother them much)
Vampires, ghosts and skeletons are pretty homeostatic, I'd say. Though only vampires are actively so (sustaining themselves by feeding and healing damage). Zombies just fall apart over time and don't do anything to keep that from happening, so they're out at least. Skeletons might possible be sustained through magic, returning to a steady state even if knocked apart. As for ghosts you can't really push them out of their steady state (say, damage them), so homeostasis doesn't really seem to apply to them.

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3. reproduction (even if vampires can make people turn into other vampires, that can hardly be considered reproduction since their own DNA is not being reproduced, even if they make the other person mingle their blood, it's not the same...so looks like that's out)
But DNA isn't what makes the vampire, so it's not what matters for reproduction of a vampire. (Well, unless it's the type of vampirism caused by a virus: there you do have transfer of DNA/RNA. That also goes for viral zombies, btw.)
Additionally a lot of stories of vampires I know use the concept of lineage, with a direct connection between the vampire who was 'created' and the one who sired him/her. With possible consequences for inherited supernatural powers.
I'd tick the box here for both vampires and zombies.

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4. resperation (i'm growing short on my list here, i dunno if there are 5 or 7 now, i just remember that i always come up short XP )
I think this applies to vampires, since they need to feed to stay 'alive'. (Where respiration is understood as actively taking some 'resource' from the 'environment' and through using it up sustaining oneself.)
It doesn't seem to apply to the others. Zombies may hunger for the flesh of the living, but in most variants they don't actually need to eat to sustain themselves, I think. (In any case, according to the zombie survival guide they don't. Anything they eat just rots inside of them, since their digestive tract is inactive.)
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Elystriana
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I think for me it would be more like being able to think and reason for themselves.
....though there are some animals (ex. kitties) that I think far too cute to be killed.
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Snofox Kari
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some animals don't even have brains, they're living :c they grow and ...live
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Elystriana
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you mean like all those bacteria things?
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