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| Sanguo Yanyi (Romance of the Three Kingdoms) Discussion Thread | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 18 2011, 06:18 AM (396 Views) | |
| Yeung Hong | Apr 18 2011, 06:18 AM Post #1 |
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Tudi (徒弟)
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Do we have any fans of Luo Guanzhong's epic novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms (Sanguo Yanyi) here? |
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| ghostexorcist | Apr 20 2011, 02:15 AM Post #2 |
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Tudi (徒弟)
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I have the complete Foreign Press edition, but I've never read it. I read an abridged edition of a Qing Dynasty version for a class. I didn't like it very much. It might just be because so many chapters were cut out. We still had to read a little over 400 pages, though. Liu Bei came off as a cry baby who relied on Kongming too much. My favorite character was Zhao Yun. We had to read the Daodejing, Annalects, and The Prince for the class. My final paper compared Liu Bei to what would be Machiavelli's ideal prince. He (at least his fictional persona) fails in many respects. |
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| JohnD | Apr 20 2011, 10:38 AM Post #3 |
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Xian (仙)
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I'm not a fan of Sanguo yanyi, really. I just got mad reading it (I was reading the Moss Roberts translation). Not because of the translation, but because I don't like Liu Bei. I don't think he's a good guy. There was that one town (can't remember the name of it) that he was supposed to give back to the Wu kingdom, but he and Kongming kept coming up with excuses not to return it. Liu Bei said he didn't want to be named king, but that was just a formality, the old "refuse three times, then accept" social necessity that still exists today. And for all his talk about wanting to restore the Han, when he had the chance to take out Wei, he went for revenge for Guan Yu instead, against the better judgment of everyone else, even though he could have gotten revenge afterwards. So in the end, he puts his friendship over his strive to see the Han restored, which was his main goal to begin with, according to what he said. So basically, Liu Bei is fake, and he's always a crybaby, as Ghostexorcist said. Also I don't think Kongming is all that brilliant. Half the time he's not successful because his scheme is so ingenious; Cao Cao's aides figure it out immediately. It's just that Cao Cao won't listen to them, so he gets defeated. Same thing happens with Liu Bei when everyone tells him not to attack Wu to get revenge for Guan Yu. It's a common storytelling device in these novels for a character to completely ignore common sense advice, acting out of character, and I personally find that to be poor storytelling. |
| Kunlun Journal of Chinese Historical Fiction | |
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| Yeung Hong | Apr 21 2011, 12:21 AM Post #4 |
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Tudi (徒弟)
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I have the same edition! (mine is hardcover) I also have a paperback of the Brewitt-Taylor translation. I generally prefer unabridged versions myself, but I actually prefer the unabridged version of Journey to the West (Jenner's translation) than the unabridged version by the same translator (which I struggled to finish, to be honest). I think you should give the unabridged version a try if you have time (since you already own it) you can always stop after the third volume if you're bored by it.
Agreed, if you've seen the TV series he literally is a crybaby, as is his son. I much prefer Cao Cao and Sun Ce as far as rulers are concerned.
It was more than just a town, it was half of Hubei province!
I'm a bit confused here. Liu Bei (in the novel) didn't want to be king at all and only did so under duress. Cao Pi however, did want to become Emperor right away but was persuaded by his officials to formally refuse three times before accepting. Have you got the two mixed up? It may be a little annoying to read about, but it's accurate; I've rarely seen older Chinese accept anything from another person without a little persuasion first.
The only time I can remember this happening was at Chi Bi: When some advisors brought up the possibility of a fire attack against their ships, Cao Cao dismissed their warnings because the wind was blowing in the wrong direction. Kongming sought divine intervention to change the direction of the wind, allowing the attack to be successful. I would say Cao Cao did the right thing in this situation as there is no way he could have foreseen divine intervention.
On the contrary, that is completely in character. Much is made of the relationship between the three sworn brothers and their loyalty to one another, not just to the Han. For example, one of the main reasons why Guan Yu briefly served Cao Cao was because if he died he would have broken his promise to his brothers that they would die on the same day. Similarly, it's established at various points during the novel that both Zhang Fei and Liu Bei care more about each other than their own wives or children (also Zhao Yun). In regards to seeking revenge rather than invade Wei (I doubt he could have "taken out" Wei in just one campaign), not only is this what the real Liu Bei, who the character is based on, did but it's also in a sense what Chiang Kai-shek did in real life under similar circumstances when he chose war with the Communists over an alliance against Japan, despite the fact he made it clear it was his ultimate goal to reclaim Taiwan and Manchuria. Regardless of whether Liu Bei made the right decision strategically, revenge, loyalty, hubris and hatred are very real emotions and errors do happen in real life because people succumb to these emotions. I wouldn't at all call portrayals of such emotions or errors "poor storytelling". |
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