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Noah's Reaction To Dusty's Murder?
Topic Started: Jan 18 2008, 01:34 AM (565 Views)
Longtime

bubbles
Jan 19 2008, 11:29 PM
Ok, on a serious note. Why is everyone assuming Winston was always abusive to Noah? I think Winston was strict and he had rules. i mean let's take out the psychotic parts. But my father is strict. I've only seen my father cry once. He doesn't think men should cry. I haven't seen my husband cry a lot either. So besides Winston telling Noah not to cry at 2 and be a man. What do we know what he did to Noah as a child?

Sure Winston had a hard time accepting Noah for who he is but so did Lily. Holden did too. He was glad that Luke was with Jade. So much that he was bending over backwards to keep Jade at the house. So he pushed Luke towards his *beard* too.

I just don't see this abuse that everyone sees. Noah said Christmas with his father was orderly. that's not abusive to me.

The only way I know of to put it is, that Noah seemingly wasn't allowed to like what he wanted or decide what he wanted to do...and he did say he never had any friends because they all knew they moved around a lot, and he was afraid of getting close to anyone because they would before long move away and leave him.

We know Noah had to sneak out just to watch a movie, and that he wasn't allowed to even read comic books - stuff boys everywhere ought to get to do. I guess this kind of stifling to me is some form of abuse....strict would be setting a curfew, but I can't fathom not being allowed to really...just.....do things at all.
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bubbles
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LoTr1985
Jan 20 2008, 04:34 AM
bubbles
Jan 19 2008, 10:29 PM
Ok, on a serious note. Why is everyone assuming Winston was always abusive to Noah? I think Winston was strict and he had rules. i mean let's take out the psychotic parts. But my father is strict. I've only seen my father cry once. He doesn't think men should cry. I haven't seen my husband cry a lot either. So besides Winston telling Noah not to cry at 2 and be a man. What do we know what he did to Noah as a child?

Sure Winston had a hard time accepting Noah for who he is but so did Lily. Holden did too. He would glad that Luke was with Jade. So much that he was bending over backwards to keep Jade at the house.

You just said it right there "let's take out the psychotic part." That kind of violence doesn't just "pop up." Not to mention how unbelievably afraid of his father Noah is. He's dropped multiple hints throughout his time in Oakdale about how his father has treated him.

I think one of his most telling moments was actually with Maddie when they were in the hotel room, drying off. He told her about applying to Northwestern and how excited he was about being accepted and finally being out on his own, doing his own thing but "just when I thought I had escaped, he sets another trap for me." That doesn't sound like a dad who's just strict.

But you are filling in stuff that wasn't even shown.

Noah saying that comment could be just him being upset his father wasn't doing what he wanted him to do. I mean I've made similar comments about my parents. My father is very strict. But I know he loves me and I've been scared of him many times. I dunno.

I just think they made the Col into a cartoon villain. I mean Noah talked about the fishing trips him and his father used to take. I do think his father loved him but couldn't accept him. They wrote the character the way they do to elicit sympathy from the viewers. Nothing more, nothing less.


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bubbles
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Longtime
Jan 20 2008, 04:39 AM
bubbles
Jan 19 2008, 11:29 PM
Ok, on a serious note. Why is everyone assuming Winston was always abusive to Noah? I think Winston was strict and he had rules. i mean let's take out the psychotic parts. But my father is strict. I've only seen my father cry once. He doesn't think men should cry. I haven't seen my husband cry a lot either. So besides Winston telling Noah not to cry at 2 and be a man. What do we know what he did to Noah as a child?

Sure Winston had a hard time accepting Noah for who he is but so did Lily. Holden did too. He was glad that Luke was with Jade. So much that he was bending over backwards to keep Jade at the house. So he pushed Luke towards his *beard* too.

I just don't see this abuse that everyone sees. Noah said Christmas with his father was orderly. that's not abusive to me.

The only way I know of to put it is, that Noah seemingly wasn't allowed to like what he wanted or decide what he wanted to do...and he did say he never had any friends because they all knew they moved around a lot, and he was afraid of getting close to anyone because they would before long move away and leave him.

We know Noah had to sneak out just to watch a movie, and that he wasn't allowed to even read comic books - stuff boys everywhere ought to get to do. I guess this kind of stifling to me is some form of abuse....strict would be setting a curfew, but I can't fathom not being allowed to really...just.....do things at all.

Well, me and my husband are really strict. My kids don't watch t.v. They read books. They don't get to go to sleepovers.etc. I dunno. I guess I'm used to strict. My father was in the Army and I know about those rules.
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Longtime

bubbles
Jan 19 2008, 11:42 PM
LoTr1985
Jan 20 2008, 04:34 AM
bubbles
Jan 19 2008, 10:29 PM
Ok, on a serious note. Why is everyone assuming Winston was always abusive to Noah? I think Winston was strict and he had rules. i mean let's take out the psychotic parts. But my father is strict. I've only seen my father cry once. He doesn't think men should cry. I haven't seen my husband cry a lot either. So besides Winston telling Noah not to cry at 2 and be a man. What do we know what he did to Noah as a child?

Sure Winston had a hard time accepting Noah for who he is but so did Lily. Holden did too. He would glad that Luke was with Jade. So much that he was bending over backwards to keep Jade at the house.

You just said it right there "let's take out the psychotic part." That kind of violence doesn't just "pop up." Not to mention how unbelievably afraid of his father Noah is. He's dropped multiple hints throughout his time in Oakdale about how his father has treated him.

I think one of his most telling moments was actually with Maddie when they were in the hotel room, drying off. He told her about applying to Northwestern and how excited he was about being accepted and finally being out on his own, doing his own thing but "just when I thought I had escaped, he sets another trap for me." That doesn't sound like a dad who's just strict.

But you are filling in stuff that wasn't even shown.

Noah saying that comment could be just him being upset his father wasn't doing what he wanted him to do. I mean I've made similar comments about my parents. My father is very strict. But I know he loves me and I've been scared of him many times. I dunno.

I just think they made the Col into a cartoon villain. I mean Noah talked about the fishing trips him and his father used to take. I do think his father loved him but couldn't accept him. They wrote the character the way they do to elicit sympathy from the viewers. Nothing more, nothing less.

The one that made me really feel for Noah was at the Police department, on Winston's last day:

Noah: "I just came here to tell you what I think of you."

Winston: "It doesn't matter what you think."

To me, that exchange told me quite a bit.
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bubbles
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Longtime
Jan 20 2008, 04:44 AM
bubbles
Jan 19 2008, 11:42 PM
LoTr1985
Jan 20 2008, 04:34 AM
bubbles
Jan 19 2008, 10:29 PM
Ok, on a serious note. Why is everyone assuming Winston was always abusive to Noah? I think Winston was strict and he had rules. i mean let's take out the psychotic parts. But my father is strict. I've only seen my father cry once. He doesn't think men should cry. I haven't seen my husband cry a lot either. So besides Winston telling Noah not to cry at 2 and be a man. What do we know what he did to Noah as a child?

Sure Winston had a hard time accepting Noah for who he is but so did Lily. Holden did too. He would glad that Luke was with Jade. So much that he was bending over backwards to keep Jade at the house.

You just said it right there "let's take out the psychotic part." That kind of violence doesn't just "pop up." Not to mention how unbelievably afraid of his father Noah is. He's dropped multiple hints throughout his time in Oakdale about how his father has treated him.

I think one of his most telling moments was actually with Maddie when they were in the hotel room, drying off. He told her about applying to Northwestern and how excited he was about being accepted and finally being out on his own, doing his own thing but "just when I thought I had escaped, he sets another trap for me." That doesn't sound like a dad who's just strict.

But you are filling in stuff that wasn't even shown.

Noah saying that comment could be just him being upset his father wasn't doing what he wanted him to do. I mean I've made similar comments about my parents. My father is very strict. But I know he loves me and I've been scared of him many times. I dunno.

I just think they made the Col into a cartoon villain. I mean Noah talked about the fishing trips him and his father used to take. I do think his father loved him but couldn't accept him. They wrote the character the way they do to elicit sympathy from the viewers. Nothing more, nothing less.

The one that made me really feel for Noah was at the Police department, on Winston's last day:

Noah: "I just came here to tell you what I think of you."

Winston: "It doesn't matter what you think."

To me, that exchange told me quite a bit.

The Col. is used to giving orders.

But didn't you just say Noah didn't know what right and wrong was? So that's why he acts the way he does.

Well, the Col is trained to give orders. My father served in the Army and I know what it's about he told me. So These men are trained a certain way so it's hard to not bring that same strict regimen to their home life. I still don't know if that's abuse.

His father was definitely homophobic but again the military is like that as well.

I just think the Col. had potential but they made him psycho to make people justify Noah's actions.
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LoTr1985
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bubbles
Jan 19 2008, 10:42 PM
LoTr1985
Jan 20 2008, 04:34 AM
bubbles
Jan 19 2008, 10:29 PM
Ok, on a serious note. Why is everyone assuming Winston was always abusive to Noah? I think Winston was strict and he had rules. i mean let's take out the psychotic parts. But my father is strict. I've only seen my father cry once. He doesn't think men should cry. I haven't seen my husband cry a lot either. So besides Winston telling Noah not to cry at 2 and be a man. What do we know what he did to Noah as a child?

Sure Winston had a hard time accepting Noah for who he is but so did Lily. Holden did too. He would glad that Luke was with Jade. So much that he was bending over backwards to keep Jade at the house.

You just said it right there "let's take out the psychotic part." That kind of violence doesn't just "pop up." Not to mention how unbelievably afraid of his father Noah is. He's dropped multiple hints throughout his time in Oakdale about how his father has treated him.

I think one of his most telling moments was actually with Maddie when they were in the hotel room, drying off. He told her about applying to Northwestern and how excited he was about being accepted and finally being out on his own, doing his own thing but "just when I thought I had escaped, he sets another trap for me." That doesn't sound like a dad who's just strict.

But you are filling in stuff that wasn't even shown.

Noah saying that comment could be just him being upset his father wasn't doing what he wanted him to do. I mean I've made similar comments about my parents. My father is very strict. But I know he loves me and I've been scared of him many times. I dunno.

I just think they made the Col into a cartoon villain. I mean Noah talked about the fishing trips him and his father used to take. I do think his father loved him but couldn't accept him. They wrote the character the way they do to elicit sympathy from the viewers. Nothing more, nothing less.

Well, of course Noah loved his father! Most ppl who are abused love their abusers and they can talk about the good times more than they can talk about the bad, even if the latter happened more often. That's typical. It doesn't mean it didn't happen and it doesn't mean that it was okay.

Talking about parents setting traps is not healthy and Noah didn't say it in some passing fashion. It was a remark that rang true throughout the rest of his dad's stay in Oakdale. You don't visibly shake and act like you've just swallowed garbage when your dad walks in the room if you have an okay relationship with him or if he was just strict.

I can't speak to anything about your family but I had males exactly like Col. Mustard in my life and they were evil. Pure evil. So it goes both ways.

And I'm not quite sure what the writers setting Noah's dad up as a villian has to do with anything. They wrote him as a villian for a purpose...to explain Noah's closet. That's what soap writers do. And we may never get a full backstory on Noah but the inference of abuse is there.
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LoTr1985
Jan 20 2008, 12:53 PM

Well, of course Noah loved his father! Most ppl who are abused love their abusers and they can talk about the good times more than they can talk about the bad, even if the latter happened more often. That's typical. It doesn't mean it didn't happen and it doesn't mean that it was okay.


That's not true, at least not for Noah, he talked about his dad's bad more than his good.

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na00na
Jan 19 2008, 11:02 PM
LoTr1985
Jan 20 2008, 12:53 PM

Well, of course Noah loved his father!  Most ppl who are abused love their abusers and they can talk about the good times more than they can talk about the bad, even if the latter happened more often.  That's typical.  It doesn't mean it didn't happen and it doesn't mean that it was okay.


That's not true, at least not for Noah, he talked about his dad's bad more than his good.

I said "and they can talk." It was a contraction.
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bubbles
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I still don't think Noah was anymore abused than any soap character.

And even if he was abused, I guess for me it's so what. He's a grown ass man. We can't blame our childhood for everything. Parents aren't perfect. We screw up all the time.

while Noah is trying to figure himself out maybe he shouldn't be in the relationship then. I mean if he can't help but hurt people because he's screwed up.

I feel sorry for troubled kids but I always tell them they are responsible for their actions.

Just like you said about Luke or anyone else in a wheelchair, just because they are in a wheelchair doesn't give them the right to treat people like shit.

so that's my basic thing I've had with Noah and his fans is whenever we talk about the shitty things he's done it comes back to "well , look at how he was raised" um, again I say so what.

I feel he gets cut too much slack just because his supposed past growing up with his father.

But oh well. :song:
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CodeNuke
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Luke/Noah stalker
i like Noah but he as done some bad thing. he feel bad about what his dad done toLuke and now he trying to find himself. just glad that he love Luke.

In my story i have my Kevin Hit Noah and call him a jerk.. and my kevin knows he been a jerk too.
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Luke & Noah Fan thread
Jake Silbermann/ Noah Fans - aka Jake party thread for ATWT main board.
Van Hansis/Luke Fan thread
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LoTr1985
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bubbles
Jan 19 2008, 11:04 PM
I still don't think Noah was anymore abused than any soap character.

And even if he was abused, I guess for me it's so what. He's a grown ass man. We can't blame our childhood for everything. Parents aren't perfect. We screw up all the time.

while Noah is trying to figure himself out maybe he shouldn't be in the relationship then. I mean if he can't help but hurt people because he's screwed up.

I feel sorry for troubled kids but I always tell them they are responsible for their actions.

Just like you said about Luke or anyone else in a wheelchair, just because they are in a wheelchair doesn't give them the right to treat people like shit.

so that's my basic thing I've had with Noah and his fans is whenever we talk about the shitty things he's done it comes back to "well , look at how he was raised" um, again I say so what.

I feel he gets cut too much slack just because his supposed past growing up with his father.

But oh well. :song:

Jesus Christ! My internet connection went dead.

Anyway...

There's a difference between the justifiable and expected screwing up of parents and abuse. And abuse is not about blame.

Having been abused as a kid, I can tell you that being "ass grown" doesn't take away the years that the abuse happened and it doesn't tell you how to deal with it or fix it or even recognize it. The scars from that period linger for years and some ppl never "get over it." It haunts them for the rest of their lives.

I'm 30 years old and even to this day, what happened to me as a kid affects what I do, even with all the help that I've received. And my acknowledgement of my abuse does not allow me to cut myself some slack for anything I've done before now, because it doesn't. Some of the shit I've done is horrible. But I know why I did it and the emotions behind it and what fueled it, which helps prevent it from happening again. And I think that's where the confusion lies for you.

I've never said that Noah was anymore abused than any other soap character. I just said that abuse has consequences that affect his adult life. And I've never said that he should be given slack for anything hurtful he's done. Part of moving from victim to survivor is learning that actions have consequences, which Noah is learning slowly, but surely, b/c he's paid some pretty hefty prices for what he's done. It's also not healthy to avoid having relationships with people or learning how to build relationships with people. Part of moving from victim to survivor is learning to take that step, to reach out and form connections that you otherwise might not make, which is what Noah has done with Luke. The next step will be trying to figure out how to make it make it healthier than what it is.

I've said this over and over but the realization and acceptance that Noah was abused is not excusing his actions nor does it let him off the hook. It's a logical reasoning behind what motivates him and what drives him, which will be key if he wants to continue to fix it. If you don't know what's broke, you can't fix it. Acknowledgement is much different than giving someone slack, which is not what I've done.

I think you're confusing this convo about Noah (which was referencing Luke in the wheelchair) and other things he's done b4 then, which I've not addressed @ all in any of my posts b/c that wasn't the original intent.
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bubbles
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of course realizing Noah has been abused helps understand what motivates him. I can understand that.

And I know what abuse is, I've lived it myself.

In this conversation the reason I brought up Noah's faults is because people love to put labels on Luke i.e he's pushy, bossy, controlling or whatever and not once do you or anyone else put such labels on Noah. All I hear is he's trying to figure out who he is....I don't hear people labeling Noah as a liar or whatever.

I just feel it's unfair to label Luke because he has reasons why he's the way he is. He has had shit happen to him too. That's been my whole point.



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LoTr1985
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bubbles
Jan 20 2008, 12:33 AM
of course realizing Noah has been abused helps understand what motivates him. I can understand that.

And I know what abuse is, I've lived it myself.

In this conversation the reason I brought up Noah's faults is because people love to put labels on Luke i.e he's pushy, bossy, controlling or whatever and not once do you or anyone else put such labels on Noah. All I hear is he's trying to figure out who he is....I don't hear people labeling Noah as a liar or whatever.

I just feel it's unfair to label Luke because he has reasons why he's the way he is. He has had shit happen to him too. That's been my whole point.

Okay, don't put words in my mouth. I have made many references in my posts here and on vh and on cbs that Noah is not a saint. Jesus, I said like 3 posts ago in here that Noah is a liar and a manipulator. I've also said on numerous times that he needs to grow some ballz. I haven't justified any of his actions as a "growing experience." But he's changing, which is what I hope most human beings do.

Luke is pushy and bossy and controlling. But he's changing, which is what I hope most human beings do.

It's something that they both have to work on.
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LoTr1985
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BTW...for those of you who are wondering...

bubbles and I get along famously! We just like to argue with each other. She loves the angst! :)
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bubbles
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LoTr1985
Jan 20 2008, 06:46 AM
bubbles
Jan 20 2008, 12:33 AM
of course realizing Noah has been abused helps understand what motivates him. I can understand that.

And I know what abuse is, I've lived it myself.

In this conversation the reason I brought up Noah's faults is because people love to put labels on Luke i.e he's pushy, bossy, controlling or whatever and not once do you or anyone else put such labels on Noah. All I hear is he's trying to figure out who he is....I don't hear people labeling Noah as a liar or whatever.

I just feel it's unfair to label Luke because he has reasons why he's the way he is. He has had shit happen to him too.  That's been my whole point.

Okay, don't put words in my mouth. I have made many references in my posts here and on vh and on cbs that Noah is not a saint. Jesus, I said like 3 posts ago in here that Noah is a liar and a manipulator. I've also said on numerous times that he needs to grow some ballz. I haven't justified any of his actions as a "growing experience." But he's changing, which is what I hope most human beings do.

Luke is pushy and bossy and controlling. But he's changing, which is what I hope most human beings do.

It's something that they both have to work on.

I'm not putting words into your mouth. I *said* the reasons why *I* even started this conversation is because that's what was taking place in this thread.

I'm not going to go back and read every freaking post but Luke gets labeled a lot more than Noah and it does piss me off.

I think they are both f ups.

I still don't think Noah made any huge sacrifices to stand by Luke. He gained a family so...

I'm tired , who the hell cares anymore.

:song: why do I love this little emoticon LOL!
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