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| T-45 Goshawk from Hawk; Is anyone brave enough? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 18 2011, 02:25 AM (1,399 Views) | |
| pincelli | Feb 18 2011, 02:25 AM Post #1 |
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Plastic fiddler
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OK guys, With the release of the Revell 1/32 Hawk, I've been asked what it would take to turn it into a Goshawk. The following is copied from a post I made on another forum and is written in reference to 1/48th scale offerings, but the modifications would be the same. This is my take (as a current T-45 instructor pilot, modeler, and avid Hawk/Goshawk enthusiast) on what it takes to make a T-45 from a Hawk: Please note that this is a "quick" list of the major stuff that would be obvious on a model and is not fully representative of the differences between the actual aircraft. -New nose wheel (modified F/A-18 nose wheel would be a place to start). -Entire nose section forward of the wing leading edge is deeper and the nose itself is more round. The bottom of the deepened nose actually angles down from where the wing leading edge meets the nose section (There's actually a pretty big seam there on the real jet since the whole wing can be removed) and reaches maximum depth where the nose wheel drag brace meets the fuselage. Italeri captured the forward fuselage shape pretty well in their 1/72 kit. It’s quite obvious if you put it side-by-side with their Hawk T.1 kit. The top profile of the nose forward of the windscreen is the same as a Hawk, but the tip is more rounded due to the deeper bottom profile. -New main landing gear. Bigger, thicker, longer...basically completely redesigned. -Bigger wheels. Actually, the wheels may not really be much bigger, but the tires are. -Main landing gear attachment points moved outboard approx 10 inches. -Main gear doors completely different in shape. Note: The big main and nose gear doors close after extending the gear, but they are usually seen hanging after the jet is shut down since the plane captains drop them to do the turn-around. -Wing leading edge is slightly more swept than Hawk and wingtips are squared off to accommodate the slats(make the leading edge a straight line from the point it meets the fuselage and tangent to the existing curved wingtip then square off the tip) The Hawk has a crank in the leading edge near the root. Making the leading edge straight from the root takes the crank out and increases the sweep enough to look right to me. -Leading edge slats (we park the T-45 with them up so just scribing the slat in would be the easy way to go). The flaps bleed down fairly quickly after shut down, so slats up and flaps down is the most common condition on deck. -Add the ventral fin, hook attachment fairing and tailhook. (most of this would be pretty easy with some styrene stock, and a shortened Monogram FA-18 tailhook would be convincing enough). -Add speedbrakes to the fuselage sides. (They are not recessed, but actually just lay flat against the fuselage sides when retracted, so some sheet styrene cut to shape with the slots opened up would work OK). -Extend and square off the horizontal stab tips. (8 scale inches or so). -Extend the vertical stab cap approx 10 scale inches. - The Neomega Hawk cockpit would look close enough to aT-45A for anyone but an actual T-45 pilot. The T-45C has two MFD's in place of the gauges. -Martin Baker SJU-17 NACES seats. I think the Black Box ones for the late model Hornet look pretty close, although I haven't seen the Quickboost ones in person. They may be better. I'm sure I left some stuff out, but that should cover the big stuff. Comparing a 1/72 Italeri Hawk with an Italeri T-45 is actually a great reference for the landing gear, doors, forward fuselage shape and tailhook attachment fairing. The Italeri T-45 is actually quite accurate for a prototype, but ONLY accurate for a prototype because it doesn't have any of the aerodynamic mods. (slats, wingtips, extended horizontal stab tips, extended vertical stab, ventral fin, etc) In case you're wondering: NO, I haven't completed these mods on a kit of my own. I finished a converted wing, stabs, and nose but I have decided to sideline that project since there may be a 1/48th scale kit coming within the year. My take on the Collect Aire kit is that it falls far short of portraying a convincing T-45. It looks more like a Hawk with square wingtips to me. The deeper forward fuselage and nose shape in addition to other mods weren't captured very well at all. I offered CA my assistance when they announced that they were developing the kit back in 1999 or so and they turned me down. Too bad. I think they could've had a real winner with just a bit more research. I have the kit and will use the photo etched fret for the speed brakes and a few other details when I finally get around to finishing one. Don't know what to do with the rest. -Gabe P.S. The Model Alliance decal sheet has decals for the jet with my name on it from my previous tour in Kingsville (2000-2002). |
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| pincelli | Feb 18 2011, 02:34 AM Post #2 |
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Plastic fiddler
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All, The following was posted on the other forum to illustrate the mods needed to make an Italeri 1/72 kit accurate: This pic does a pretty good job at showing the scquared off wingtips and horizontal stabs. Also, if you compare this to a similar pic of any Hawk you will notice the slightly increased sweep of the leading edge. Also that it is completely straight whereas the Hawk has a "kink" near the root. The leading edge meets the fuselage further forward than on a Hawk as well: ![]() This one too: ![]() And this one: ![]() Here are a couple pics of the taller vertical stab: ![]() ![]() Ventral fin: ![]() Wingtips showing navigation light configuration. Also notice in the second pic where the leading edge meets the fuselage. On a Hawk the leading edge meets the fuselage pretty much at the panel line: ![]() ![]() Radar altimeter fairing: ![]() That should cover most of the details you need to change on the Italeri 1/72 T-45 kit. If there is anything specific you would like to see a picture of, please let me know. If I don't already have it, I can have a picture within a day or two! Cheers, Gabe |
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| Mark M | Feb 18 2011, 08:11 AM Post #3 |
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Hawk T1
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hmmm ok now you have me thinking |
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| Phil B | Feb 18 2011, 01:00 PM Post #4 |
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Filler and Sander
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Great stuff as usual Gabe. Can we have some undercarriage shots please? Preferably head on and directly from the side as well as more general ones. Also, how about up into the undercarriage bays - especially the nose gear bay. I can't wait for the 1/48 kit this year. I have the Italeri 1/72 T-45 kit but that will take quite a bit of work to bring up to production standard. I've got some photos I got from the net which show a head-on and side comparison of the nose shapes of a Hawk and a T-45. I'll post them when I get home tonight. So, about this 1/48 kit. Do we need to start saving for it now or not? :D Phil. |
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| pincelli | Feb 19 2011, 01:52 AM Post #5 |
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Plastic fiddler
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Give me a bit Phil and I'll upload some landing gear pics. In fact I plan on posting a walkaround, but haven't managed to sort through all the pictures yet. I'd love to see the nose comparison shots you have. As many as I have, you can never have too many reference photos! As far as the upcoming 1/48th kit, you won't have to save too much. I haven't heard a price yet, but I would expect it to be priced in the $30 to $40 range. I've been helping the manuafacturer with references over the past 6 months or so. That's all I can say... for now... :) |
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| HawkFan | Feb 19 2011, 07:41 AM Post #6 |
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Filler and Sander
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Those Schemes are fantastic...anyone know if 1/72 decal sheets will be made?? |
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| pincelli | Feb 19 2011, 12:24 PM Post #7 |
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Plastic fiddler
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Drawdecal has a 1/72 sheet available. www.drawdecal.com |
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| Julien | Feb 19 2011, 03:23 PM Post #8 |
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Glue sniffer
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Cheers for this. I have the Italeari kit to do. I am whiffing it as a Blue Angel but still want to make it look right Julien |
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| HawkFan | Feb 19 2011, 03:25 PM Post #9 |
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Filler and Sander
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thanks for the link :D |
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| Phil B | Feb 19 2011, 05:30 PM Post #10 |
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Filler and Sander
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Hi, Here are the composite images I made from Airliners.net photos. ![]() ![]() That's a good price on the 1/48 kit. I may just have to raid the piggy bank for that one. Phil. |
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| davedubya | Feb 20 2011, 08:09 PM Post #11 |
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Airbrush master
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Don't know if any of you've bought it this month, but Jets Monthly magazine has a piece about the 100th anniversary of US Naval Aviation - it features photos of two T-45Cs with new centennial schemes. |
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| Mark M | Feb 20 2011, 08:16 PM Post #12 |
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Hawk T1
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err dave that is what Gabe does / is a t-45 pilot and has direct input into the centinial goshawks |
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| davedubya | Feb 20 2011, 11:01 PM Post #13 |
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Airbrush master
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To be honest, I hadn't read the thread yet, I just picked the relevant heading. |
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| Mark M | Feb 20 2011, 11:10 PM Post #14 |
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Hawk T1
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no probs mate , gabe has some ver ynice photos hes going to share with us arnt you gabe! |
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| pincelli | Feb 21 2011, 04:05 AM Post #15 |
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Plastic fiddler
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You got it! Just started a new thread with a selection of Centennial T-45 photos. Will have some T-45 Landing gear photos in this thread shortly. |
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2:11 PM Jul 11