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| The price of kits..... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 25 2013, 09:05 PM (504 Views) | |
| Mark M | Aug 25 2013, 09:05 PM Post #1 |
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Hawk T1
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Todays review of the Tamiya corsair has really got me thinking how can Revell or airfix charge comapritvley cheap prices for kits when Tamiya charge £100+ for a 1/32 fighter my thinking goes like this Tamiya fighter £100 say very good detail but a averable amount of plastic, now say compare that to a revell 1/32 he111, loads of plastic very high detail ok no etch but for £10 for detail set and overall price of £60 you get soooo much more for your money ok go again revell 1/32 me109, same size kit both have stunning detail for £20 max what is the extra £80 for??? even trumpy can bang out a 109 for £25 a more direct comparison may be the HB spitfire to Tamiya spit ys the tamiya one is slightly better apparently but with a price of £100 more im not in any way slagging of tamiya, hasse ect i just cant understand the prices |
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| Daz Greenwood | Aug 25 2013, 09:28 PM Post #2 |
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The voices told me to do it!
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I was thinking this too mate! As you say Revell can produce a 1/32 scale kit for half the price, with the same amount of detail. Or is it because of the price £ to the Yen? And also importer's prices? |
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| Simon G | Aug 25 2013, 09:36 PM Post #3 |
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heavy weatherer
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I agree, Tamiya quality, detail and engineering is worth a premium but the price gap is too big. Revell are the stars with excellent value for money kits, I have a question mark over Airfix though, used to be pocket money kits but not now. I remember being taken back by the initial price of the 1/24 Mossy (£120), the 1/48 Merlin (£60) and over £10 for a 1/72 Harrier? . . . . Thems is big boys prices! Si. |
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| RotorheadTX | Aug 25 2013, 10:20 PM Post #4 |
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Plastic fiddler
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I believe it comes down to two or three basic points: 1) Exchange rate between the various currencies, and taxation systems. 2) Mark-up by importers and middle-men. 3) The philosophy of "what the market will bear". Years ago I frequently cursed a blue streak about the price of RoG kits here in the States. The kits I was most interested in were their reboxings of Italeri kits, because Revell's marking options were often more esoteric and interesting. It was hard to understand how an Italeri kit could cost $10-15, while a Revell boxing of the same subject would frequently cost twice as much or more. I passed up purchasing a great many kits, just because I found the disparity offensive. Both countries were on the Euro, so there should have been no difference in exchange rate. I suspect they were imported through different sources, so that could have explained the disparity. In the end the market (i.e. ME) wouldn't bear the price, so the product didn't move. Eventually I got what I wanted when they were sold off at a discount. Tamiya has a reputation of producing uber-wunder kits, so their presumed quality props up the added cost. But this is a double-edged sword, and I think Revell and Airfix now have it right; their kits are very close in quality, and superior in cost per kilo of plastic. The current Revell and Airfix business models are pointing out that Emperor Tamiya is under-dressed. :lol: |
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| peebeep | Aug 26 2013, 12:06 AM Post #5 |
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resin fondler
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These are crucial points. In Japan, Tamiya and Hasegawa etc kits are as cheap as Airfix/Revell in the UK, whereas the latter are as proportionately expensive in Japan as the Japanese kits are in Europe. At least, that's what a modeller domiciled in Japan tells me. I've been told the same thing by a well known British trader, who also says that UK importers mark ups are very generous (I've heard the same from other sources.) What the market will bear is true of any manufacturing output, where the actual value of a product is a fraction of its RRP. If the market doesn't like it the manufacturer has to adjust or go out of business. The problem for those of us who enjoy oriental kits is that the manufacturers have a humungous home market to service and little incentive to offer attractive deals to anybody importing their kits. peebeep |
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| Mark M | Aug 26 2013, 01:30 AM Post #6 |
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Hawk T1
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i take on board whats been said about taxes, ect but its not that shops that bang the price up i know that first hand yes you can get models cheaper trade, but by the time you add vat you are lucky to make £1 proffit on a £20 kit, having been involved in a shop and seeing trade prices i wonder how much the importers actually make? now having said all this, there is one thing that messes up there theory..... HobbyBoss!! they have the same, imports, taxes and charges so why do they generally remain so cheap! |
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| Deleted User | Aug 26 2013, 05:49 AM Post #7 |
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Deleted User
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I wouldnt say hobbyboss are cheap as the new P-61 was £120 and the tonkas were £40 and so were the F-111's But then again when the Academy SU-27 first saw the light of day it was £60 now you can pick one up for £19. Then along came the greatwall kit and we are back up around the £50 mark. Most things will have a high retail value when they first come out because of mugs like me that have been waiting so long for something will buy it as soon as its out for pre order. This isnt the case with all kits as some have a cheap release price any way. The best example of this was the airfix Nimrod. The moulds were done by trumpeter and retailed for £40-50. I waited on this one and picked up 2 at £15 each 2 years after release. Going back to the Tamiya spitfire, I only fancied the last one the did but I waited. That was £120 on release but I picked one up in 'themodellers' sale for £50. There are bargains out there (or so they would seem) but it depends what you are prepared to pay for them. Most of my Asian kits come from the country of origin, especially Trumpeter and academy as they are less than over here even when you add the postage. Yes you do take a lottery with the import fees etc but most of the time when you add that to the price its still cheaper than over here. The only exception to this rule was Model zone who had some blinding deals and I had quite a few kits off them. But sadly as we all know they are no more (possibly). I do prefer to put money into 'local' companies but as there are few and far between near me I either use models for sale, model hobbies or hannants for smaller stuff but big/expensive kits I get from abroad. I guess its the same with anything we buy. Most cars will get you where you are going but the choice is say a fiesta or a BMW (other manufacturers are available). Both will do the job but it comes down to what you want and can afford. Having owned both I know which I would go for and it aint the fiesta. |
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| Mark M | Aug 26 2013, 06:00 AM Post #8 |
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Hawk T1
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its still difficult to see the difference in price, but i totally understand the reasoning but seeing the quality of recent releases especially from Revell, Tamiya's reign may be coming to an end, for me id rather get a 1/32 UHU and 1/32 He111 for the same price as 1 tamiya corsair |
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| Deleted User | Aug 26 2013, 06:26 AM Post #9 |
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Deleted User
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I think its far from coming to an end because you look at there 1/48 stuff, they are very reasonable. Its only there 1/32 stuff which is 'expensive'. It goes back to my car analogy, both the revell UHU and zouki mura have the same outcome which is a model of a 1/32 UHU but the quality and design are miles apart. The revell kit is blinding for the price but theres no real engine detail and the cockpit is adequate. But it is still a nice model for the cash and on this instance I whent for the 'fiesta' option as thats all I wanted from the kit. Its the same with the Skyraider, the zouki mura one was £100+ yet the trumpeter one was between £60-70. Again I whent for the cheaper option but the comparison this time is between a 118i BMW and a 120D BMW. Both are exceptional but the 120D has a more powerful engine. |
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| Olde Farte | Aug 26 2013, 08:41 AM Post #10 |
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Lt. Derek 'Smurfy' Reeve
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I've decided that I am avoiding all things Japanese kitwise and will carry on buying my kits abroad as the prices over here are exorbitant. Shopping around does help but by and large British shops have got greedy regardless of who they are. Having said that some decent bargains can be bought at shows etc. just hope that nobody has filched some of the bits. Re cars, if it is between a Fiesta or a BMW give me my Honda Civic anyday.
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| DLG Dave | Aug 26 2013, 09:06 AM Post #11 |
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Lt Dave 'Wraith' Carter
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There are Japanese level wages and rents at play here too (in Japan, land ownership is very expensive indeed due to specific historical aspects of Japanese politics) so it's unlikely Tamiya actually own the land they use for their production. However there's likely another factor at play here which is going to sound pretty counter-intuitive. Tamiya want to keep themselves established as the hobby's Premium brand. Take in premium brands from elsewhere and in the past few years they've been involved in some strange headlines. For example, the makers of Chanel No.5 took Tescos to court to prevent them from selling their range at a discount price. Chanel won that court case because the Court ruled they had a legitimate expectation of maintaining the exclusivity of their product. It will sound very silly to people posting here, but that's also at play with Tamiya. Yes, their products are very good quality and the buyer is well-served with the care and attention to the products in the box. What's in the box will usually not bear a value-for-money comparison with products elsewhere but one thing they do know is that if they charge highly for specific products, that those products can be expected to sell at that putative price. At the moment it still works for Tamiya, in my case I do know of modellers who - given the choice between two immaculately identical kits - will plump for a more expensive Tamiya kit, simply due to the implied higher status. Yes, modelling snobbery, and people will genuinely pay for that theoretical premium. Even Hasegawa's most loyal defenders are beginning to twig that the lustre on their Crown is beginning to tarnish and unless they are willing to do some serious soul-searching, I'd say they're facing an inevitable (and some would say much-deserved) fall in the coming decade and a half. Still, in the meantime, they're charging prices that simply defy even the most convoluted logic in some cases. It may be justified for a brand new tooling, or one which has significant licencing implications (like Decal logos on a Formula One racer) but charging upwards of forty quid for a 1:72 kit simply for a decal scheme change where both kit and decal sheet are available for very considerably less than half that elsewhere is just foolishness. It also has to be remembered that when Hasegawa produce a new mould, they run it for extended periods and keep large stocks of the unboxed base kit which might eventually only find itself consigned to a boxed product two decades later. So they can't even use the excuse of a high cost of contemporary raw materials. If you're having an eastern holiday, ending up in Hong Kong or going via Dubai you'll naturally have the opportunity to pick up an expensive kit at the lower eastern prices (or possibly in duty-free in Dubai - there was a shop selling a very large Tamiya range last time I went thru'...), but as has been recommended elsewhere on this thread, buying direct from China or Japan will usually make far better financial sense. |
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| Deleted User | Aug 26 2013, 09:26 AM Post #12 |
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Deleted User
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The other thing is that its these 'premium' manufacturers that are tackling the subjects in scale un heard of before. When I started building many moons ago I would never have dreamed of a 1/32 Mig-23 and now there 3 versions of the aircraft. The same goes for a 1/32 intruder, again un heard of in this scale until trumpeter came along. I think that without this sort of competition all of the old brands such as Airfix, revell/monogram and italeri would still be knocking out run of the mill kits. So they are having to compete with the level of detail we now find and sadly this comes at a price. Look at what we have had in just one year - A new tooled Jaguar in 1/48, New tooled Grippen in 1/48, A UHU in 1/32, 2 versions of a HE111 in 1/32, 2 versions of a JU88 in 1/32, 2 1/32 skyraiders the list goes on and on and the year isnt done with yet as we still have the 1/48 Javelin, Mig-25, 1/32 skyraider (another variant), 1/48 F-80 & RF-80. Not all expensive but this was un heard of 5-10 years ago. Not forgetting all the eastern European kits like the AZ fireflys and 1/72 releases. Our hobby seems to have grown and grown in such a short time with a choice un paralleled. Off on a slight tangent there but what Im trying to say is there is a lot of money in our little hobby which varies from the £2-5 kit buyer right up to the £100-500 builder. What you buy is neither here nor there its how you enjoy the hobby. Like I said, I have a tamiya spitfire and my jaw still drops every time I open the box, but that dosnt mean the cheaper kits arnt just as enjoyable to build. |
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| smeds | Aug 26 2013, 09:53 AM Post #13 |
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Airbrush master
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With regard to the Revell and ZM He-219 kits, I think ZM kit are waaaaay over priced because of all that wasted plastic.....Who is going to see that internal structure once the kit is closed up ? Trumpeter do it as well. I am building the Trumpeter 32nd Skyraider at the moment and you get something like 6 internal bulkheads/frames, why !! they serve no purpose and its in there !! And there's a great big internal fuel tank behind the cockpit, once the fuselage is buttoned up you cant see any of it. Less plastic, less cost surely ! |
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| peebeep | Aug 26 2013, 11:32 AM Post #14 |
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resin fondler
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Whilst Hasegawa may disappear from shops and traders here, I don't believe Hasegawa will fall, simply for the reason that 99% of their product is consumed by the home market at prices that we would find perfectly acceptable. The amount of kits they distribute world wide is piffling compared to their home market consumption and there is no imperative for them to do so. They do not get involved in export as such, it only occurs when an importer negotiates a deal with them and they have no say in the RRP at point of sale. The latter is determined by VAT, the importers overheads and mark up, then the retailers overheads and mark up. Hobby Boss has been mentioned, when they started out they pitched at entry level with the Easy Kits that were less than a fiver. You could pick them up at shows discounted down to £2-£3. That idea seems to be out of the window now, the Gladiator is RRP'd at £8.99, which makes it look poor value for money compared to the new Airfix. Again, this may be down to the importer rather than the manufacturer. peebeep |
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| DevilFish | Aug 27 2013, 08:21 AM Post #15 |
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LCDR Paul "Voodoo" Carter
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Seconded!! |
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8:22 AM Jul 11