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Mothra Vs. Godzilla(1964); Discuss the film here.
Topic Started: Feb 7 2006, 06:12 AM (10,216 Views)
packmule
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gojiramatthew
Apr 14 2011, 04:49 AM
Or that King Kong managed to whack Godzilla repeatedly across the head after both of them fell into the water
So you're inclined to believe Godzilla was unconscious for two years after he and Kong landed in the water in the '62 film...only to resurface(literally) in Mothra Vs Godzilla(1964)? heyo
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TheDreadedGodOfKaiju
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Apr 14 2011, 12:09 PM
So you're inclined to believe Godzilla was unconscious for two years after he and Kong landed in the water in the '62 film...only to resurface(literally) in Mothra Vs Godzilla(1964)? heyo
Now that you mention the two years which I forgot, my answer would be no. winky
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So, assuming their is continuity from movie to movie in the showa era. How did he get underground?
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Rodan70
Apr 19 2011, 03:50 AM
So, assuming their is continuity from movie to movie in the showa era. How did he get underground?
If a person rejects the premise that King Kong, at the conclusion of the '62 film and while Kong and Godzilla were underwater after their tumble into the ocean, managed to knock out Godzilla, who eventually, and two years later, washes ashore still unconscious from his battle with Kong, then I would simply go with Godzilla falling into a deep sleep in the ocean, perhaps in some shallows off the coast of Japan, only to be washed ashore by powerful Typhoon "Abe" in the '64 film.
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packmule
Apr 14 2011, 01:59 AM
Godzillaheisei546
Apr 13 2011, 06:59 PM
Godzilla First Appearance: Yah it's cool, But I never thought it made sense, Why Would Godzilla Rise from the Ground, when in the last film he fell in the ocean, Fans say he was KO'd, then Wound up on shore like a Beached Whale, then was Buried. I Don't think Ishiro Honda was thinking that when he made it, because of how far fetched it seems
I've seen some message board content(at other boards) about the premise for Godzilla's first appearance in Mothra Vs Godzilla(1964). Godzilla being washed ashore and buried under tons of sand and silt by a powerful hurricane(as was the case in this film) seems plausible to me: Pacific typhoons are frequently more powerful than their counterpart Atlantic ocean hurricanes. A Pacific Ocean typhoon with sustained winds approaching 200 MPH would, I think, be capable of washing large objects ashore.

What struck me as odd, more than anything, was how Godzilla would remain unconscious(or asleep) throughout this process of being deposited by the hurricane at the beachfront development site and buried under tons of sand. ? heyo

I don't buy it.
In Godzilla movies, they over explain everything. (How the creature was born, where it came from)etc.
I guess the director could have left somethings unexplained. But I just find it confusing.
I don't care how many fans analyze that scene, there opinions don't make sense to me.
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Godzillaheisei546
Apr 29 2011, 10:20 AM
I don't care how many fans analyze that scene, there opinions don't make sense to me
What explanation would make sense to you? heyo
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G2Kmaster
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I'm no Kyle Gilmore, but I think I created something interesting. Kind of like seeing a rough cut of this film's battle scene.
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G2Kmaster
May 23 2011, 11:12 PM


heyo

Two questions:

1. what version did you use? The Simitar English dubbed DVD?

2. where did you get those other scenes you mixed in to the main version?

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I'm no Kyle Gilmore, but I think I created something interesting
Who is Kyle Gilmore?
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G2Kmaster
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1. The simitar DVD. I explain why in the text screen before the video begins.

2. I got 2 copies of the TOHO SPFX Tape (on DVD).

I just uploaded the footage from the two discs using a Dazzle w/ Pinacle Studios and edited the clips togeather and then manipulated the deleted shot's audio as to make it run smoothly with the actual film.

And Kyle Gilmore is a man who did some great projects in volving deleted scenes, with the most notorious being his GODZILLA VS. DESTROYAH alternate ending thing, which he re-did the audio and enhanced the picture to an extent. Here:

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v17866737qWbKGR9H
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packmule
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G2Kmaster
May 24 2011, 01:45 PM
The simitar DVD. I explain why in the text screen before the video begins

I saw the text but didn't read it. The reason: I didn't expand the video to fill my computer screen. tongue-1

Out of curiosity why edit these movie sequences at all? To alleviate boredom? huh?
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G2Kmaster
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Just to alleviate curiosity reguarding what a rough cut of the film would have looked like.
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MegalonIsNotPleased
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my new favourite. i loved this one
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MegalonIsNotPleased
Jun 3 2011, 05:24 PM
my new favourite. i loved this one
Out of curiosity, what are the things that you liked about this film?. heyo

Also, got any explanation for how Godzilla got underground? Since Rodan70 and Godzillaheisei546 might be interested. winky
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gojiramatthew
Jun 3 2011, 11:33 PM
Also, got any explanation for how Godzilla got underground?
Uh, you didn't find my explanation about this plausible, Matthew? heyo
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MegalonIsNotPleased
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i just found this movie awesome because it brings back godzilla's evilness that he had in the first one, not to mention one of the best godzilla suits of the entire series, and mothra's debut to the godzilla films. I dont know how he could have gotten underground though, because at the end of king kong vs godzilla if im not mistaken he was left in the water. huh?
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"Packmule"
 
Uh, you didn't find my explanation about this plausible, Matthew? heyo


I have no problem with your explanation, I just felt like see if MegalonIsNotPleased had a new idea to how Godzilla got there. winky

"MegalonIsNotPleased"
 
i just found this movie awesome because it brings back godzilla's evilness that he had in the first one, not to mention one of the best godzilla suits of the entire series, and mothra's debut to the godzilla films.


I didn't find Godzilla in this film as evil as he was in the 1954 original and Godzilla Raids Again (1955) for reasons listed about a page back... I think. winky

Besides from the wobbly lip, the suit is indeed great and the Adult Mothra prop was great as well. noddy

"MegalonIsNotPleased"
 
I dont know how he could have gotten underground though, because at the end of king kong vs godzilla if im not mistaken he was left in the water. huh?


I see, still thanks for answering my questions. Mr. Green
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MegalonIsNotPleased
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it just seems that the fact the military blasts him with a whole bunch of things in this film (including putting a bunch of nets over him and zapping the crap out of him) added to how unstoppable and evil he seemed. i liked the suit in this one because the face (other than of course, that dreaded wobbly lip) made him look quite mean and intimidating. the major drawback, in which i agree with matthew on, is the fact he's defeated by 2 little mothra babies and shows almost no attempt to fight back.
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MegalonIsNotPleased
Jun 5 2011, 03:43 PM
... the major drawback, in which i agree with matthew on, is the fact he's defeated by 2 little mothra babies and shows almost no attempt to fight back
While I understand the disdain many Godzilla movie fans feel about how "Mosugoji" was defeated by the pair of larval Mothra, I would remind you of this about these "babies" you refer to:

-they can shoot powerful streams of silk and with great accuracy, the silk extremely durable and nearly as strong as steel

-the two larval Mothra in the '64 film are obviously much smaller than Godzilla...but having said that I would hardly call them small. Both larval Mothra appear to be at least ten meters tall(33 feet) and twenty five meters(85 feet) long(the Millennium larval Mothra are 30 meters(100 feet) long in the 2003 G film) and weigh between 8000 and 9000 tons each. Both creatures are also able to swim effectively and are also very mobile on land and able, as we see in the film, to conceal themselves among rocky terrain.

Having watched the larval Mothra vs Godzilla battle at the end of the film I believe Godzilla underestimated the abilities of the two smaller creatures that followed him. By the time Godzilla had begun reacting to the larval Mothra's silk attacks, by kicking rocks and boulders at them as well as firing off blasts of his oral beam, it was too late as Godzilla was already halfway cocooned in the silk, his mobility severely diminished. winky

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Note in the above image the arrow pointing to a barn, a structure usually at least twenty feet tall(six meters). The larval Mothra closest to this structure is considerably taller than the barn(or shed).
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The Real McCoy
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^ I've seen this just recently. This guy is amazing. The Ghidorah prop, while it obviously needs finishing, is a spot-on likeness.

Anyway, in my opinion the best Showa Godzilla film. The story is very well put together. The sense of urgency from each of the characters isn't overwhelming, but isn't hollow either. I don't quite know how to explain that other than each character faces a dilemma that is serious enough to be significant, but isn't too serious as to be unbelievable. All of the characters have plenty of development and are enjoyable. There is some comic relief, but not enough for it to feel forced; a problem that, while still being a very enjoyable movie, King Kong vs. Godzilla experienced. The monsters had great character development as well. Godzilla is depicted as an evil, almost unstoppable force of nature with no motives to speak of, and Mothra as a monster who will stop at nothing to defend her children no matter what the odds, even if it costs her life.

Another reason why I find this movie so great is the military involvement. They don't just show up and start firing away; they carefully plan out several strategies and carry them out accordingly. It was interesting to see Godzilla's weakness to electricity, and him almost being defeated by it.

The fact that the title monster in reality would have absolutely no chance of defeating a radioactive dinosaur is another thing that makes this film enjoyable for me. Toho took the concept and made it work well. For Godzilla to be beaten by two caterpillars is ridiculous to some, but one should look at the context of the movies before making that judgement: Godzilla was a jerk; he was supposed to lose. But, everybody has their own opinions.

Another thing I've heard people "complain" about, so to speak, is the military constantly "missing" Godzilla in this film. I would like to venture an opinion on this. Recently, I watched a documentary called "Bringing Godzilla Down To Size" on one of my Classic Media discs. I seem to remember a piece about one of the suit actors explaining how it hurt for the pyrotechnics to be fired at the suit. The complaint was tested by shooting one of the rockets at a board (I can't remember the thickness), and the board splintered. There isn't a lot of cushion inside the suit, so I believe that it hurts the actors enough that many explosions are seen "missing" the monsters because it hurts the actors inside the suits. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but my common sense tells me that would be the reason (how would you like it if someone fired bottle rockets at you in nothing but a sweatshirt? heyo3 )

After my unnecessarily large wall of text, I'll conclude by saying that this is one of the most well put together Godzilla movies of the Showa series, and arguably one of the best out of the entire Godzilla series as a whole. How enjoyable it is to you is one's own opinion.
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The Real McCoy
Oct 31 2011, 10:19 AM
The fact that the title monster in reality would have absolutely no chance of defeating a radioactive dinosaur is another thing that makes this film enjoyable for me. Toho took the concept and made it work well. For Godzilla to be beaten by two caterpillars is ridiculous to some, but one should look at the context of the movies before making that judgement: Godzilla was a jerk; he was supposed to lose. But, everybody has their own opinions.
The context doesn't change that I still think the ending is highly anti-climatic and a terrible way to end the last Showa era G-film where Godzilla was a full on villain. winky

Still, I respect your opinion but I don't 100% agree with it, I'm sure you know why if you read my review for this film. noddy
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I get where you're coming from. The final battle doesn't really consist of much, and it is pretty far-fetched. And if you look at it just right, it does seem like a cop-out ending; like they needed a reason for it to end because there was no way two frail caterpillar could beat a giant dinosaur.

I've said this about many other monster movies: The reasons for disliking it are just as credible as the reasons for liking it.
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There isn't a lot of cushion inside the suit, so I believe that it hurts the actors enough that many explosions are seen "missing" the monsters because it hurts the actors inside the suits. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but my common sense tells me that would be the reason (how would you like it if someone fired bottle rockets at you in nothing but a sweatshirt?
Godzilla suit actor Haruo Nakajima got a real workout wearing the G suits, as did Kenpachiro Satsuma in later Godzilla movies.

These suits, made out of vulcanized rubber, were often bulky and hard to maneuver around in not to mention the fact temps inside these suits, with a person inside them, could reach in excess of 120 degrees fahrenheit, one reason why G suit actors could only wear them for short periods of time.

The Toho special effects staff put inserts into the "feet" of the Mosugoji suit to help Haruo Nakajima's balance as he walked around inside the suit: he had complained that the suit was top heavy and it was a struggle for him to remain upright as he walked around. The suit itself was also reduced in weight to make it easier for Nakajima to wear it during shoots.

Haruo Nakajima was nearly electrocuted, suffered numerous physical injuries, dehydration and nearly drowned(a water tank mishap) during his work wearing the Godzilla suits.

There is one scene in Mothra Vs Godzilla(1964) where the Mosugoji suit actually catches fire: in the scene JSDF bombers are dropping napalm bombs on Godzilla as the monster thunders about the countryside. I believe the suit catching fire was an accident but it looked good on film and the scene was retained for both the original Toho and Americanized, AIP versions of this movie.

The wobbly "lip" of the Mosugoji suit is also a clear illustration of the potential for accidents on set while Nakajima wore the G suits: the face of the suit was damaged when Haruo Nakajima, in the G suit, lost his balance while approaching the large castle prop. Instead of destroying the castle(as the shot was originally planned), Nakajima instead crashed into the castle after losing his balance: as he was trained he continued to destroy the prop. Later the shot was examined and it was decided to retain the shot for the final cut of the film.

The Real McCoy
 
The final battle doesn't really consist of much, and it is pretty far-fetched
I'm not sure I would characterize the final battle between Godzilla and the two larval Mothra as far fetched. Both larva veer off in opposite directions and first follow Godzilla, then flank the monster on both sides while trying to avoid Godzilla's oral beam blasts and flying boulders which have been kicked at them by Godzilla. What else can these two larva do, realistically? They cannot fly(yet) and they employ their only weapons, their silk ejectors, and fairly effectively.

I believe the final battle should have included one of the larval Mothra being mortally wounded or even killed. After the two larva cocoon Godzilla and immobilize him one of the larva is finally hit with Godzilla's oral beam and crawls back into the ocean where it sinks, presumably dead. The other larva manages to escape to the sea. Godzilla falls into the ocean like we see in the actual film. I also would have liked seeing Godzilla toss around at least one of the larva. There's no doubt this final battle leaves something to be desired. winky
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I fully understand the rigors of suit-acting. It's amazing what these people went through. Didn't Nakajima actually break a limb during the filming of Rodan?

My statement was, however, pertaining to people complaining about the military's aim, and that most of the explosions seem to miss. I was stating my theory that they can't use a lot of rockets and explosions on the suits because they know it will hurt the actors.
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Oct 31 2011, 03:26 PM
I was stating my theory that they can't use a lot of rockets and explosions on the suits because they know it will hurt the actors
Not only potentially injure the suit actors but also the effects crews as well. If I remember correctly I recall reading that there were some pryrotechnic mishaps on the sets of the older G movies.
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The Real McCoy
 
The final battle doesn't really consist of much, and it is pretty far-fetched
I'm not sure I would characterize the final battle between Godzilla and the two larval Mothra as far fetched. Both larva veer off in opposite directions and first follow Godzilla, then flank the monster on both sides while trying to avoid Godzilla's oral beam blasts and flying boulders which have been kicked at them by Godzilla. What else can these two larva do, realistically? They cannot fly(yet) and they employ their only weapons, their silk ejectors, and fairly effectively.


I missed this last part. When I said that, I was really just acknowledging gojiramatthew's point of view. I personally am on the edge of my seat for most of the movie. I try to look at it both ways so people won't think I'm blinded by fanboyism. Not that I think he was implying that at all; I just wanted to make sure he and everybody else knows that I'm not that kind of fan.
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Oct 31 2011, 03:00 PM
I've said this about many other monster movies: The reasons for disliking it are just as credible as the reasons for liking it.
I can understand that, also I think that can go on for every film in existence. winky
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I always like to say that, especially when dealing with a film that is popular to hate or like. I try to give both sides of the story a bone, so as to avoid the "OMG UR WRONG!" comments.
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gojiramatthew
Nov 1 2011, 04:52 AM
The Real McCoy
Oct 31 2011, 03:00 PM
I've said this about many other monster movies: The reasons for disliking it are just as credible as the reasons for liking it.
I can understand that, also I think that can go on for every film in existence. winky
And sometimes, the reasons for disliking it can also be reasons for liking it in an ironic fashion. winky
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For those of you who know my opinion on this movie well, here's a video I found:



Looks like Godzilla wasn't drinking beer during the filming of this movie but wine. crazy2
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