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The Official "History" thread; Like history? Talk about it here!
Topic Started: Oct 26 2010, 03:55 PM (1,734 Views)
Shawn
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In the hopes of trying to get more activity here at The Sanctuary I have decided that this would be a cool thread, everyone who knows me knows I like history and discussion it with others so this thread will have certain topics to talk about.We will have topic that everyone will talk about and if that topic begins to lose activity anyone may change to a topic of their choice.

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Halloween History:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween
http://www.history.com/topics/halloween

What do you think of the origins of this most strangest holiday that we Americans celebrate?
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packmule
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I have changed the topic title to "The Official History Thread' so members will understand what the primary topic "talking point" is. I am also a history buff. I majored in history in college and received a B.A. degree in history from The Citadel back in 1984.

Among the points of history I like reading about: the Napoleonic Wars, the Crusades, medieval European history, the First World War and the history of Russia.
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CrowMagnumMan
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I'm interested in history the point that I greatly enjoy watching the History Channel. Sometimes I enjoy reading about it, if it's the right subject. And I enjoy historical movies and TV shows.
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CrowMagnumMan
Oct 27 2010, 01:45 AM
And I enjoy historical movies and TV shows
Such as? heyo
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Oct 27 2010, 08:18 PM
CrowMagnumMan
Oct 27 2010, 01:45 AM
And I enjoy historical movies and TV shows
Such as? heyo
Not counting actual documentaries...

TV Shows
Deadwood, Band of Brothers, The Pacific, Shackleton (miniseries)

Movies
Braveheart (inaccurate, but great movie), The Dish (great true story about an Australian radio telescope during the moon landing), Apollo 13 (very important movie for me), Black Hawk Down (fairly recent, but a great true to life movie), The Buccaneer, El Cid, Glory, K-19: The Widowmaker, Lawrence of Arabia, October Sky, Patton (masterpiece with a phenomenal performance by George C. Scott), The Right Stuff, Sergeant York, Spartacus (Kirk Douglas/Kubrick version), Tombstone (takes some liberties, but an awesome movie with great cast/performances, Val Kilmer especially), Wyatt Earp (actually haven't seen this, but I included it because I'm pretty sure I'd like it)
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packmule
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Some films you might like, Gregg based on your fondness for history:

Kingdom Of Heaven(2004), Doctor Zhivago(1965), The Ten Commandments(1956) & Ben Hur(1959)
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Oct 28 2010, 05:35 AM
Some films you might like, Gregg based on your fondness for history:

Kingdom Of Heaven(2004), Doctor Zhivago(1965), The Ten Commandments(1956) & Ben Hur(1959)
Yeah, didn't include The Ten Commandments because no one's really sure if any of it is true or not. And didn't include Ben-Hur because it's fiction. But Charlton Heston is my favorite actor of all tie, and I'm a big fan of both films.

I watched Kingdom of Heaven once a long time ago. Can't remember if I saw the theatrical cut or the director's cut, but the DC is supposed to significantly improve the film. I remember liking it to a certain degree, but wasn't hugely impressed by it. I think if they'd gotten somebody other than Orlando Bloom I'd have liked the film more initially.

Doctor Zhivago I haven't seen, but I agree that I would probably like it. I really need to get into David Lean.
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I also greatly enjoyed studying history of modern Russia and Japan while in college. winky
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Shawn
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My favorite study of History is space and ancient civilizations. I just find it interesting that the ancient people could build such perfect structures with little to no technology that even we couldn't do today with all of what we know. I find space interesting because we know nothing about it and will know nothing as long as I live. I may say we waste a lot of money on space studies but it is pretty cool of what we can find out.
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Shawn
Dec 31 2010, 04:28 PM
My favorite study of History is space and ancient civilizations
Have you ever heard of the book Chariots Of The Gods by Erich Von Daniken? heyo

http://www.amazon.com/Chariots-Gods-Erich-von-Daniken/dp/0425166805

I'd recommend this book. winky
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Shawn
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packmule
Jan 1 2011, 11:36 AM
Shawn
Dec 31 2010, 04:28 PM
My favorite study of History is space and ancient civilizations
Have you ever heard of the book Chariots Of The Gods by Erich Von Daniken? heyo

http://www.amazon.com/Chariots-Gods-Erich-von-Daniken/dp/0425166805

I'd recommend this book. winky
I did hear the History Channel advertising it but Ive never actually read it. I may check my local book store when I go soon to pick up a book Ive been wanting.

The History Channel has been playing shows about how people and scientists are creating the theory on how the pyramids were built. They believe that aliens were involved in bring the ancient civilizations the tools and technology to build them.

I personally don't believe that the Egyptians could have built the structures they did. I don't care how many Jewish slaves you have, it would be near impossible to get a multi-ton stone up many stories. I sorta side with this theory but we wont find out anytime soon what really happened.
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Shawn
Jan 3 2011, 04:04 PM
I personally don't believe that the Egyptians could have built the structures they did
So, uh, you're saying you believe aliens did?
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gvamp
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I'm not a History buff but do enjoy learning about it. Over the summer last year (2010) I took an Art History class and it was one of my favorite classes I've had in college.

We started off learning about Ancient Egypt art and even got into Greek Mythology which is something I really enjoy despite being fictatious.

One of my NY Resolutions was to read more any thing you suggest Lee for history? What subject did you particularly find interesting?
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gvamp
Jan 5 2011, 03:46 AM
One of my NY Resolutions was to read more any thing you suggest Lee for history? What subject did you particularly find interesting?
If you enjoy reading about history you might find these topics interesting reads:

The Napoleonic Wars

World War I

Operation Barbarossa: The Nazi invasion of Russia in World War 2

The Hundred Years War between England and France

The (Holy) Crusades

The Russian Revolution of 1917

Medieval Japan

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Shawn
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packmule
Jan 3 2011, 11:38 PM
Shawn
Jan 3 2011, 04:04 PM
I personally don't believe that the Egyptians could have built the structures they did
So, uh, you're saying you believe aliens did?
Not 100% but I do think it would be hard to believe that they did do it with the little technology we've found. I do have to say that the ancient civilizations are much more educated then we are now.
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The History Channel has decided not to air an eight part TV miniseries based on the Kennedy family after complaints of inaccuracies in it. Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110108/ap_on_en_tv/us_tv_history_the_kennedys
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Shawn
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Jan 8 2011, 02:56 AM
The History Channel has decided not to air an eight part TV miniseries based on the Kennedy family after complaints of inaccuracies in it. Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110108/ap_on_en_tv/us_tv_history_the_kennedys
Interesting but usually shows like that are based on someones point of views. I don't know what the show is "truly" about with the Kennedy family but if it was from someone else view there will be differences.
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CrowMagnumMan
Oct 27 2010, 01:45 AM
I'm interested in history the point that I greatly enjoy watching the History Channel
Here's the website for "The History Channel", Gregg in case you want to "bookmark" it in your web browser: http://www.history.com/
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Shawn
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They are having a "Civil War Week" on the channel. You maybe interested winky
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Thanks. thumbz up I do find the Civil War interesting. I had satellite TV again for a short while there, but now we no longer have it. So most of my TV watching will be at my grandmother's house, where I usually only go to watch specific programs that I'm anticipating. I do hope to get TV again someday, perhaps when I can afford it myself, since I enjoy watching well-made educational programming.
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Everything good always costs more . . .
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During college I had to pen a huge paper on Napoleon's invasion of Russia in 1812. In 1812 France was the dominant power in Europe courtesy of a decade of French military victories by Napoleon. Napoleon invaded Russia in the summer of 1812 with what at the time was the largest field army on Earth, the "Grand Army" which consisted of 650,000 men(450,000 infantry and the rest comprising the cavalry and those who transported/operated the 1400 cannons). By December, 1812 only about 75,000 French soldiers made it out of Russia alive. The rest of the massive French army perished due to the infamous Russian winter, disease and the guerilla tactics of brigade sized and horse mounted Russian cossacks. The destruction of the Grand Army is considered one of the great military disasters in all recorded history. Here's a documentary of that disaster:

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I'm fascinated by the "Romance of the Three Kingdoms".
Generally depicting the fall of the Han Dynasty, and how three states or powers came out of it, The Wu Dynasty, The Shu Dynasty and the Wei Dynasty.
I find it fascinating how the started of the Yellow Turban Rebellion would name himself the Great Teacher.
No Particular reason.
And yes, some of the characters in the Historical Record are fictionalized and Dramatized.
As I don't think Xiahou Dun really ate his own eye.
That and Sima Yi and Zhuge Liang are obviously only tied together as rivals because of being strategists.

Also enjoy learning about the Cold War, Russia, Cuba, The Cuban Missile Crisis, The Assassination of JFK, (Mostly because of the Stephen King Novel)
The Space and Arms Race.
All very fascinating to me.

Biblical History of course interests me in some ways as well.

Due to being surrounded in Native American History and Background from my childhood on, I've had an average curiosity towards this.

And of course, most of all, Movie History, Literature History, and some Music.
From figures like Edgar Allen Poe or Ed Wood, I look into how Productions and lives went through the process, their Wives or Husbands and Offspring.
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I love History! I am especially fascinated by the Diadochi Wars and the Hellenistic Age (323-30 BCE).

My top 10 favorite historical figures are:

1. Cleopatra
2. Alexander the Great
3. Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
4. Lao Tzu
5. Antiochus III the Great
6. Tamerlane
7. Zenobia of Palmyra
8. Charles Darwin
9. Rudolf Steiner
10. Ted Bundy


Edited by Bradman, Jun 23 2017, 09:05 PM.
I love the B-Movies from the 50's, 60's and 70's. topper
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packmule
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Here are my own top ten favorite historical figures:

1. Abraham Lincoln
2. Genghis Khan
3. Napoleon Bonaparte
4. Richard The "Lionheart"
5. Ronald Reagan
6. Albert Einstein
7. Martin Luther King, Jr.
8. Charlemagne
9. Sir Isaac Newton
10. Hannibal (Barca)
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The US mint recently announced that by 2020, we should begin to see $20 bills in circulation that will have replaced former president Andrew Jackson with Civil War-era abolitionist Harriet Tubman, an African-American and the first female to appear on paper currency. One of the reasons Jackson was chosen as the figure to be replaced, instead of Hamilton on the $10 bill, was because he was a slave owner whose ideals were quite opposite of Tubman. As could be expected, the decision to do this has created some significant controversy.

In my opinion, I feel that this change is reflective of a growing cultural movement that we have been experiencing in America for the last 10 years or so. The way our government recognizes Civil War era history has been under intense scrutiny for awhile now, from initial calls for the Confederate Flag removal from state buildings in the South to the calls and protests to rename schools and government buildings away from Confederate Leaders and stop recognizing these people as "honorable" in their past exploits, per se. At this point, the placement of someone like Tubman on a bill seems like a natural progression of something that I noticed was happening years ago.

While I haven't taken the time to really formulate my analytical opinion on the situation, I will say that while there are things I can probably never understand about Civil War history, the changes being proposed are something that in retrospect, I never would have thought could have happened in the first place. What I mean is, if the Confederacy was supposed to be "wrong" and they eventually lost the war and reconciled their secession with the Union, why the hell would they "honor" the generals and leaders of a lost and failed struggle with statues and monuments? Back when I initially pondered that (When I was stationed at Army base Ft. Robert E. Lee in Virginia and pondered why they named the base after him) I thought to myself that this must have been done by a person or community that was in serious denial over the loss of the war and the change that had occurred. However, when I talk to people from the South the opinion they present seems to be more based in the theory that they are simply recognizing Americans who were brave and strong leaders regardless of their side, and were only following orders, guys like Lee. Whether that constitutes their continued significance and exposure on local and state government institutions, is the question. Should this cause be preserved and recognized as noble, or should it be relegated to a dark corner of a museum like Adolf Hitler? American culture and opinion seems to be pushing things toward the latter, as is evident in the Tubman announcement.
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However, when I talk to people from the South the opinion they present seems to be more based in the theory that they are simply recognizing Americans who were brave and strong leaders regardless of their side, and were only following orders, guys like Lee
Obviously I can't speak for everyone in the southern U.S. states but from those I know and have known who were born in a southern state the sentiment regarding southern history is the same.

As a southerner I freely admit that slavery and the overall treatment of people of color(African-Americans and others) during the 19th century and into the 1960's(e.g. the civil rights movement) are proverbial "black eyes" on the overall history of the south. I do NOT support simply eliminating specific historical events or other periods of history. History is what it is and cannot be changed. The only change I support is the change associated with learning from our mistakes based on history. We have, as a nation, a lot of history we can definitely learn from by which to improve ourselves as both individuals and as a nation. winky

Robert E. Lee agonized over his decision as to whether to fight for the "union" or the "confederacy". Ultimately he chose to side with the latter, believing he would be betraying his home state of Virginia(a confederate state) if he accepted command of the union army(which was offered to him before the civil war officially began).

Josh, liberals and other left leaning fanatics are trying to change the U.S. - examples include the "transgender" issue, the modification or outright elimination of specific events and figures in our nation's history from school textbooks and public locales. Individuals who push these agendas are so busy being offended and taking umbrage and offense that they ignore, willfully ignore what I consider the real problems of the U.S. right now:

1. black on black crime and the increasing "gang" element of these crimes
2. the national debt, $19 trillion and rising
3. the labor participation rate in the U.S. which is about 63%, its lowest since Ronald Reagan was POTUS
4. the continuing oil dependence of the U.S. on foreign countries
5. the decline of the manufacturing sector of industry in the U.S.
6. the lingering lousy economy of the U.S. - fewer Americans working at all and fewer Americans working full time
7. the financial solvency of Social Security and other entitlement programs - fewer taxes collected(see lower labor participation rate) = potential tax increases on working Americans to help keep these programs solvent. There's also widespread fraud and abuse among these programs
8. the treatment of vets in this country by the VA which has been an absoute disgrace and illustrates the ineptitude and corruption rampant in the VA
9. the budget reductions for the American military


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josh TX
Apr 21 2016, 05:14 AM
The US mint recently announced that by 2020, we should begin to see $20 bills in circulation that will have replaced former president Andrew Jackson with Civil War-era abolitionist Harriet Tubman, an African-American and the first female to appear on paper currency. One of the reasons Jackson was chosen as the figure to be replaced, instead of Hamilton on the $10 bill, was because he was a slave owner whose ideals were quite opposite of Tubman. As could be expected, the decision to do this has created some significant controversy.

In my opinion, I feel that this change is reflective of a growing cultural movement that we have been experiencing in America for the last 10 years or so. The way our government recognizes Civil War era history has been under intense scrutiny for awhile now, from initial calls for the Confederate Flag removal from state buildings in the South to the calls and protests to rename schools and government buildings away from Confederate Leaders and stop recognizing these people as "honorable" in their past exploits, per se. At this point, the placement of someone like Tubman on a bill seems like a natural progression of something that I noticed was happening years ago.

While I haven't taken the time to really formulate my analytical opinion on the situation, I will say that while there are things I can probably never understand about Civil War history, the changes being proposed are something that in retrospect, I never would have thought could have happened in the first place. What I mean is, if the Confederacy was supposed to be "wrong" and they eventually lost the war and reconciled their secession with the Union, why the hell would they "honor" the generals and leaders of a lost and failed struggle with statues and monuments? Back when I initially pondered that (When I was stationed at Army base Ft. Robert E. Lee in Virginia and pondered why they named the base after him) I thought to myself that this must have been done by a person or community that was in serious denial over the loss of the war and the change that had occurred. However, when I talk to people from the South the opinion they present seems to be more based in the theory that they are simply recognizing Americans who were brave and strong leaders regardless of their side, and were only following orders, guys like Lee. Whether that constitutes their continued significance and exposure on local and state government institutions, is the question. Should this cause be preserved and recognized as noble, or should it be relegated to a dark corner of a museum like Adolf Hitler? American culture and opinion seems to be pushing things toward the latter, as is evident in the Tubman announcement.


packmule
Apr 24 2016, 06:24 AM
Obviously I can't speak for everyone in the southern U.S. states but from those I know and have known who were born in a southern state the sentiment regarding southern history is the same.

As a southerner I freely admit that slavery and the overall treatment of people of color(African-Americans and others) during the 19th century and into the 1960's(e.g. the civil rights movement) are proverbial "black eyes" on the overall history of the south. I do NOT support simply eliminating specific historical events or other periods of history. History is what it is and cannot be changed. The only change I support is the change associated with learning from our mistakes based on history. We have, as a nation, a lot of history we can definitely learn from by which to improve ourselves as both individuals and as a nation. winky

Robert E. Lee agonized over his decision as to whether to fight for the "union" or the "confederacy". Ultimately he chose to side with the latter, believing he would be betraying his home state of Virginia(a confederate state) if he accepted command of the union army(which was offered to him before the civil war officially began).


I agree with both of your opinions about this. While I do see why people protesting about Civil War flags and other issues; I personally think that it's a waste of time complaining. It is what happened and you cannot deny it. History happened and we must learn form history. History cannot be changed.

Lee's and Josh's posts reminds me of the phase a couple years were publishers were trying to censor "classic books" by editing the language used. I know there is more examples, but here are a few:

"Of Mice and Men" - removal of "retard Jim" to "special needs Jim"
"Huckleberry Fin and Tom Sayer" - removal of "niger/negro" to "African"

I don't see why these books were edited; they were wrote in another time where this language was the norm. There was no reason why these books could be offensive. They were written with the language of the time.
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I couldn't figure out where to ask this . . . so, it ended up here.

I know must of us here at Monsterland likes documentaries. I recently have been hearing about a new streaming service that offers only scientific/historic documentaries. It's called CuriosityStream.

Homepage/Sample Listings: https://app.curiositystream.com/
Pricing: https://app.curiositystream.com/signup

I am thinking about starting their one month free trial on my days off next week. For $3 a month it is worth a shot.
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