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Colin Kaepernick
Tweet Topic Started: Aug 30 2016, 03:22 PM (866 Views)
Maker13 Sep 1 2016, 10:41 PM Post #31
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mongo
Sep 1 2016, 09:40 PM
brumdog44
Sep 1 2016, 09:10 PM
I don't know....the fact that the way he is protesting has us talking about racial issues.....maybe it is accomplishing his goal.
I had the same thought the other day
Yup, that's been my progression. I've had it percolating around in my head for the last week, and it's sparked multiple conversations with people that I don't normally talk to about serious matters.
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HoosierLars Sep 1 2016, 11:25 PM Post #32
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Sep 1 2016, 01:38 PM
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Aug 31 2016, 07:57 PM
Maker13
Aug 31 2016, 10:26 AM
I think that, on its own, it's not an effective catalyst for change. So far, he's mainly just initiated conversation over the validity of "disrespecting" the flag and anthem as a form of protest, not elevated the conversation regarding systemic racism. As a person with a platform, it's to be seen where Kaepernick goes from here to make continued contributions towards that fight.

Regarding the act itself, I think it is a completely valid way to protest, and his logic is sound. The flag and anthem are symbols for the country as a whole. They're not the sole property of the military and the sacrifice of the men and women who've served. I understand that the military members have adopted those symbols as their own, and attached a lot of pride and self to them, but as Kaep said, they're also the symbols of the country as a whole that is supposed to offer liberty and justice for all, and that's not true.
This country does offer liberty and justice for all.
I disagree.

Non-white citizens are stopped more, seached more, arrested more, convicted more, sentenced for longer, subjected to more violent behavior by police officers, and killed more by police officers.

Unequal justice invalidates the concept of justice.
Don't forget:
1) commit more crimes
2) idolize rappers and sports stars more
3) wear pants lower more
4) adopt the gangster rapper culture more
5) raised by more single mothers
6) skip class more
7) on welfare more

5) is a biggie. But what does the left do? Try to convince everyone that being raised by a single mother is just as good as having two parents.

Kaepernick's behavior isn't going to make anything better. He will alienate more people, and polarize the country even more. I had low expectations for Obama, and am especially disappointed by his lack of transparency and tendency to take the side of blacks before knowing the facts.
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Mr Gray Sep 2 2016, 02:14 AM Post #33
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brumdog44
Sep 1 2016, 09:10 PM
I don't know....the fact that the way he is protesting has us talking about racial issues.....maybe it is accomplishing his goal.
This is a political board......we've been talking about racial issues for years. Sure, he's creating conversation, but by disrespecting the entire country, he hasn't created the kind of conversation that helps the cause, rather he set it back.
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brumdog44 Sep 2 2016, 06:09 AM Post #34
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Mr Gray
Sep 2 2016, 02:14 AM
brumdog44
Sep 1 2016, 09:10 PM
I don't know....the fact that the way he is protesting has us talking about racial issues.....maybe it is accomplishing his goal.
This is a political board......we've been talking about racial issues for years. Sure, he's creating conversation, but by disrespecting the entire country, he hasn't created the kind of conversation that helps the cause, rather he set it back.
I agree with you that what he is doing is disrespectful. I don't necessarily agreement that it sets the cause back if it ends up in conversation not specific to him.

I think his actions make a much more negative impact on himself than on any cause.
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mongo Sep 2 2016, 08:19 AM Post #35
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Sep 1 2016, 11:25 PM
Maker13
Sep 1 2016, 01:38 PM
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Aug 31 2016, 07:57 PM
Maker13
Aug 31 2016, 10:26 AM
I think that, on its own, it's not an effective catalyst for change. So far, he's mainly just initiated conversation over the validity of "disrespecting" the flag and anthem as a form of protest, not elevated the conversation regarding systemic racism. As a person with a platform, it's to be seen where Kaepernick goes from here to make continued contributions towards that fight.

Regarding the act itself, I think it is a completely valid way to protest, and his logic is sound. The flag and anthem are symbols for the country as a whole. They're not the sole property of the military and the sacrifice of the men and women who've served. I understand that the military members have adopted those symbols as their own, and attached a lot of pride and self to them, but as Kaep said, they're also the symbols of the country as a whole that is supposed to offer liberty and justice for all, and that's not true.
This country does offer liberty and justice for all.
I disagree.

Non-white citizens are stopped more, seached more, arrested more, convicted more, sentenced for longer, subjected to more violent behavior by police officers, and killed more by police officers.

Unequal justice invalidates the concept of justice.
Don't forget:
1) commit more crimes
2) idolize rappers and sports stars more
3) wear pants lower more
4) adopt the gangster rapper culture more
5) raised by more single mothers
6) skip class more
7) on welfare more

5) is a biggie. But what does the left do? Try to convince everyone that being raised by a single mother is just as good as having two parents.

Kaepernick's behavior isn't going to make anything better. He will alienate more people, and polarize the country even more. I had low expectations for Obama, and am especially disappointed by his lack of transparency and tendency to take the side of blacks before knowing the facts.
People on food stamps:

Whites- 40.2%
Blacks- 25.7%
Hispanics- 10.3%

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6771938

With regards to the school skipping, there is a drastic difference in the quality of education provided to predominately black school versus predominately white ones.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5755a512e4b0ed593f14fcb7

Bringing up things like wearing pants lower, idolizing sports stars and adopting the rap culture more has nothing to do with anything other than pretty much making it sound like you just don't like black people.
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HoosierLars Sep 2 2016, 09:13 AM Post #36
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mongo
Sep 2 2016, 08:19 AM
HoosierLars
Sep 1 2016, 11:25 PM
Maker13
Sep 1 2016, 01:38 PM
Mr Gray
Aug 31 2016, 07:57 PM
Maker13
Aug 31 2016, 10:26 AM
I think that, on its own, it's not an effective catalyst for change. So far, he's mainly just initiated conversation over the validity of "disrespecting" the flag and anthem as a form of protest, not elevated the conversation regarding systemic racism. As a person with a platform, it's to be seen where Kaepernick goes from here to make continued contributions towards that fight.

Regarding the act itself, I think it is a completely valid way to protest, and his logic is sound. The flag and anthem are symbols for the country as a whole. They're not the sole property of the military and the sacrifice of the men and women who've served. I understand that the military members have adopted those symbols as their own, and attached a lot of pride and self to them, but as Kaep said, they're also the symbols of the country as a whole that is supposed to offer liberty and justice for all, and that's not true.
This country does offer liberty and justice for all.
I disagree.

Non-white citizens are stopped more, seached more, arrested more, convicted more, sentenced for longer, subjected to more violent behavior by police officers, and killed more by police officers.

Unequal justice invalidates the concept of justice.
Don't forget:
1) commit more crimes
2) idolize rappers and sports stars more
3) wear pants lower more
4) adopt the gangster rapper culture more
5) raised by more single mothers
6) skip class more
7) on welfare more

5) is a biggie. But what does the left do? Try to convince everyone that being raised by a single mother is just as good as having two parents.

Kaepernick's behavior isn't going to make anything better. He will alienate more people, and polarize the country even more. I had low expectations for Obama, and am especially disappointed by his lack of transparency and tendency to take the side of blacks before knowing the facts.
People on food stamps:

Whites- 40.2%
Blacks- 25.7%
Hispanics- 10.3%

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6771938

With regards to the school skipping, there is a drastic difference in the quality of education provided to predominately black school versus predominately white ones.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5755a512e4b0ed593f14fcb7

Bringing up things like wearing pants lower, idolizing sports stars and adopting the rap culture more has nothing to do with anything other than pretty much making it sound like you just don't like black people.
Regarding welfare, these numbers aren't very meaningful unless they are per capita.

The gangster culture puts very little if any importance on getting a good education and job. Maybe if most of these kids had a father or other good role model around to give them a kick in the (sagging) pants when they needed it, things could get better.

The attitude that annoys me is one that believes that if only we recognized there was a problem, the police could stop treating blacks unfairly, and THEN things could finally get better. I tip my hat to the men and women who are willing to go into dangerous neighborhoods, and try to keep the peace. It's disappointing that positive role models like Ben Carson or the 9.99 pizza guy didn't get more traction in recent presidential races. Also, Condi Rice and Powell would have been great. There are a large number of successful, positive black role models who could make a positive difference.
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rkl15 Sep 2 2016, 09:14 AM Post #37
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Sep 2 2016, 08:19 AM
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Sep 1 2016, 11:25 PM
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Sep 1 2016, 01:38 PM
Mr Gray
Aug 31 2016, 07:57 PM
Maker13
Aug 31 2016, 10:26 AM
I think that, on its own, it's not an effective catalyst for change. So far, he's mainly just initiated conversation over the validity of "disrespecting" the flag and anthem as a form of protest, not elevated the conversation regarding systemic racism. As a person with a platform, it's to be seen where Kaepernick goes from here to make continued contributions towards that fight.

Regarding the act itself, I think it is a completely valid way to protest, and his logic is sound. The flag and anthem are symbols for the country as a whole. They're not the sole property of the military and the sacrifice of the men and women who've served. I understand that the military members have adopted those symbols as their own, and attached a lot of pride and self to them, but as Kaep said, they're also the symbols of the country as a whole that is supposed to offer liberty and justice for all, and that's not true.
This country does offer liberty and justice for all.
I disagree.

Non-white citizens are stopped more, seached more, arrested more, convicted more, sentenced for longer, subjected to more violent behavior by police officers, and killed more by police officers.

Unequal justice invalidates the concept of justice.
Don't forget:
1) commit more crimes
2) idolize rappers and sports stars more
3) wear pants lower more
4) adopt the gangster rapper culture more
5) raised by more single mothers
6) skip class more
7) on welfare more

5) is a biggie. But what does the left do? Try to convince everyone that being raised by a single mother is just as good as having two parents.

Kaepernick's behavior isn't going to make anything better. He will alienate more people, and polarize the country even more. I had low expectations for Obama, and am especially disappointed by his lack of transparency and tendency to take the side of blacks before knowing the facts.
People on food stamps:

Whites- 40.2%
Blacks- 25.7%
Hispanics- 10.3%

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6771938

With regards to the school skipping, there is a drastic difference in the quality of education provided to predominately black school versus predominately white ones.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5755a512e4b0ed593f14fcb7

Bringing up things like wearing pants lower, idolizing sports stars and adopting the rap culture more has nothing to do with anything other than pretty much making it sound like you just don't like black people.
Since Whites account for 40.2% of those on food stamps why aren't more crimes committed by that race?

"Bringing up things like wearing pants lower, idolizing sports stars and adopting the rap culture more has nothing to do with anything other than pretty much making it sound like you just don't like black people."

Kids of all races idolize sports stars, so that has zero to do with black people.
My son is a junior in high school and his favorite athletes are Andrew McCutchen, James Harden and Cameron Wake.

Wearing pants lower? I hate it, it is against our local school dress code.

Rap culture? - Listen to the music, listen to what is glorifies and tell me that sets a good example for anyone.
Rule in our car is if I hear a "word" I don't like, I skip to the next song.

In my opinion, many of the problems (crime, etc) starts at home.
67% of black children live in single parent families, but 73% of black births are out of wedlock.

Hillary was wrong, It doesn't take a "Village" to raise a child, it takes a family.

Where do the inner-city children of single parents get their guidance and opinions of what is right and wrong?
From Music? TV? Sports Stars?

That Chris Brown guy seems pretty cool. :ermm:

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HoosierLars Sep 2 2016, 10:04 AM Post #38
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I just realized how Kaep could turn me into a fan: Use his moment in the public spotlight to talk about the need to get a good education and listen to your mom and dad, etc. Groups like BLM give disadvantaged folks a crutch, "we're unfairly treated, it's not our fault, we can't fix it." Kaep, I know you regularly read this forum, it's your move.
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sirbrianwilson Sep 2 2016, 11:12 AM Post #39
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Please...tell me of your extensive knowledge of hip hop and r&b music...

br
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mongo Sep 2 2016, 11:28 AM Post #40
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Sep 2 2016, 09:14 AM
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Sep 2 2016, 08:19 AM
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Sep 1 2016, 11:25 PM
Maker13
Sep 1 2016, 01:38 PM
Mr Gray
Aug 31 2016, 07:57 PM
Maker13
Aug 31 2016, 10:26 AM
I think that, on its own, it's not an effective catalyst for change. So far, he's mainly just initiated conversation over the validity of "disrespecting" the flag and anthem as a form of protest, not elevated the conversation regarding systemic racism. As a person with a platform, it's to be seen where Kaepernick goes from here to make continued contributions towards that fight.

Regarding the act itself, I think it is a completely valid way to protest, and his logic is sound. The flag and anthem are symbols for the country as a whole. They're not the sole property of the military and the sacrifice of the men and women who've served. I understand that the military members have adopted those symbols as their own, and attached a lot of pride and self to them, but as Kaep said, they're also the symbols of the country as a whole that is supposed to offer liberty and justice for all, and that's not true.
This country does offer liberty and justice for all.
I disagree.

Non-white citizens are stopped more, seached more, arrested more, convicted more, sentenced for longer, subjected to more violent behavior by police officers, and killed more by police officers.

Unequal justice invalidates the concept of justice.
Don't forget:
1) commit more crimes
2) idolize rappers and sports stars more
3) wear pants lower more
4) adopt the gangster rapper culture more
5) raised by more single mothers
6) skip class more
7) on welfare more

5) is a biggie. But what does the left do? Try to convince everyone that being raised by a single mother is just as good as having two parents.

Kaepernick's behavior isn't going to make anything better. He will alienate more people, and polarize the country even more. I had low expectations for Obama, and am especially disappointed by his lack of transparency and tendency to take the side of blacks before knowing the facts.
People on food stamps:

Whites- 40.2%
Blacks- 25.7%
Hispanics- 10.3%

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6771938

With regards to the school skipping, there is a drastic difference in the quality of education provided to predominately black school versus predominately white ones.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5755a512e4b0ed593f14fcb7

Bringing up things like wearing pants lower, idolizing sports stars and adopting the rap culture more has nothing to do with anything other than pretty much making it sound like you just don't like black people.
Since Whites account for 40.2% of those on food stamps why aren't more crimes committed by that race?

"Bringing up things like wearing pants lower, idolizing sports stars and adopting the rap culture more has nothing to do with anything other than pretty much making it sound like you just don't like black people."

Kids of all races idolize sports stars, so that has zero to do with black people.
My son is a junior in high school and his favorite athletes are Andrew McCutchen, James Harden and Cameron Wake.

Wearing pants lower? I hate it, it is against our local school dress code.

Rap culture? - Listen to the music, listen to what is glorifies and tell me that sets a good example for anyone.
Rule in our car is if I hear a "word" I don't like, I skip to the next song.

In my opinion, many of the problems (crime, etc) starts at home.
67% of black children live in single parent families, but 73% of black births are out of wedlock.

Hillary was wrong, It doesn't take a "Village" to raise a child, it takes a family.

Where do the inner-city children of single parents get their guidance and opinions of what is right and wrong?
From Music? TV? Sports Stars?

That Chris Brown guy seems pretty cool. :ermm:

Read the post I quoted...Lars brought up idolizing sports star as some sort of negative comment on blacks. Millions of white suburban kids play video games where they kill people, watch violent movies, and listen to fucking rap. Are they smart enough that they aren't influenced by it but black kids aren't smart enough to recognize music as just music?

If we lived in a country where black men had equal employment options, our system cared as much about inner city schools as rich suburban schools, and blacks didn't receive harsher penalties for the same crimes as whites, we may be able to work towards there being more intact black families.
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rkl15 Sep 2 2016, 12:41 PM Post #41
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sirbrianwilson
Sep 2 2016, 11:12 AM
Please...tell me of your extensive knowledge of hip hop and r&b music...

br
I'm no expert, although I do like almost all genres of music.

Here is what I am speaking of:

Kanye West, "Life of Pablo" debuted at #1

Here are some lines from some songs:
"Father Stretch My Hands"

Now if I f**k this model
And she just bleached her asshole
And I get bleach on my T-shirt
I’mma feel like an asshole

She looking like she owe you some
You know just what we want

“Famous”

I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex
Why? I made that bitch famous

For all the girls that got dick from Kanye West
If you see ‘em in the streets give ‘em Kanye’s bests
Why? They mad they ain’t famous

“Feed Back”

Whip that, bitch out
Tits out, oh s**t
My dick out, can she suck it right now?
F**k, can she f**k right now?
I done asked twice now
Can you bring your price down?

“Wolves”

I know it’s corny bitches you wish you could unfollow
I know it’s corny niggas you wish you could unswallow

“30 Hours”

My ex said she gave me the best years of her life
Seen a recent picture of her and I guess she was right

Cause you was in college complainin’ about it’s no jobs
But you were suckin’ a nigga’s dick the whole time
Well I guess a blowjob’s better than no job


Personally, I find this music offensive.

And if this music is considered mainstream and ok, geesh.

Growing up if I ever spoke like this growing up, I believe the term "Corporal Punishment"
would be been a good description of what would have happened!

But back to Kaep, I see he is going to donate $1 million to help the causes he is concerned about.

Good for him.
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mongo Sep 2 2016, 12:59 PM Post #42
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https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/amp/colin-kaepernick-pledges-1-million-charity-anthem-protest-spreads-n641886?client=safari
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sirbrianwilson Sep 2 2016, 01:11 PM Post #43
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rkl15
Sep 2 2016, 12:41 PM
sirbrianwilson
Sep 2 2016, 11:12 AM
Please...tell me of your extensive knowledge of hip hop and r&b music...

br
I'm no expert, although I do like almost all genres of music.

Here is what I am speaking of:

Kanye West, "Life of Pablo" debuted at #1

Here are some lines from some songs:
"Father Stretch My Hands"

Now if I f**k this model
And she just bleached her asshole
And I get bleach on my T-shirt
I’mma feel like an asshole

She looking like she owe you some
You know just what we want

“Famous”

I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex
Why? I made that bitch famous

For all the girls that got dick from Kanye West
If you see ‘em in the streets give ‘em Kanye’s bests
Why? They mad they ain’t famous

“Feed Back”

Whip that, bitch out
Tits out, oh s**t
My dick out, can she suck it right now?
F**k, can she f**k right now?
I done asked twice now
Can you bring your price down?

“Wolves”

I know it’s corny bitches you wish you could unfollow
I know it’s corny niggas you wish you could unswallow

“30 Hours”

My ex said she gave me the best years of her life
Seen a recent picture of her and I guess she was right

Cause you was in college complainin’ about it’s no jobs
But you were suckin’ a nigga’s dick the whole time
Well I guess a blowjob’s better than no job


Personally, I find this music offensive.

And if this music is considered mainstream and ok, geesh.

Growing up if I ever spoke like this growing up, I believe the term "Corporal Punishment"
would be been a good description of what would have happened!

But back to Kaep, I see he is going to donate $1 million to help the causes he is concerned about.

Good for him.
1 pop star does not make the entire hip hop community. I could point to examples of how country lyrics promote unhealthy ethnocentrism and misogyny, or metal songs glorifying war, or punk and rock songs glorifying drugs/alcohol/sex, or even operas about incest....

...but I can also point to hundreds of examples of popular hip hop songs that express messages of love, acceptance, diversity, peace, female empowerment, anti-drugs, anti-gang, etc. In fact the 2016 Best Rap Album grammy went to an artist that is drug-free, gang-free, and releases album after album of music spreading his story about being born/raised in compton, getting in lots of trouble, finding god, and promoting love/peace wherever he goes. Sure, it may be in a dialect you may find "offensive" (i.e. curse words, slang), but that doesn't mean the message is. There's cursing in every genre. There's sexist phrases in every genre. And there's positive, celebrated artists in every genre.

So when I read posts that say that one of the "problems" in the African American community is that they idolize rap artists and sports icons, it's hard for me to not see that as crotchety "old white guy" syndome coming through...

br
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rkl15 Sep 2 2016, 01:25 PM Post #44
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sirbrianwilson
Sep 2 2016, 01:11 PM
rkl15
Sep 2 2016, 12:41 PM
sirbrianwilson
Sep 2 2016, 11:12 AM
Please...tell me of your extensive knowledge of hip hop and r&b music...

br
I'm no expert, although I do like almost all genres of music.

Here is what I am speaking of:

Kanye West, "Life of Pablo" debuted at #1

Here are some lines from some songs:
"Father Stretch My Hands"

Now if I f**k this model
And she just bleached her asshole
And I get bleach on my T-shirt
I’mma feel like an asshole

She looking like she owe you some
You know just what we want

“Famous”

I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex
Why? I made that bitch famous

For all the girls that got dick from Kanye West
If you see ‘em in the streets give ‘em Kanye’s bests
Why? They mad they ain’t famous

“Feed Back”

Whip that, bitch out
Tits out, oh s**t
My dick out, can she suck it right now?
F**k, can she f**k right now?
I done asked twice now
Can you bring your price down?

“Wolves”

I know it’s corny bitches you wish you could unfollow
I know it’s corny niggas you wish you could unswallow

“30 Hours”

My ex said she gave me the best years of her life
Seen a recent picture of her and I guess she was right

Cause you was in college complainin’ about it’s no jobs
But you were suckin’ a nigga’s dick the whole time
Well I guess a blowjob’s better than no job


Personally, I find this music offensive.

And if this music is considered mainstream and ok, geesh.

Growing up if I ever spoke like this growing up, I believe the term "Corporal Punishment"
would be been a good description of what would have happened!

But back to Kaep, I see he is going to donate $1 million to help the causes he is concerned about.

Good for him.
1 pop star does not make the entire hip hop community. I could point to examples of how country lyrics promote unhealthy ethnocentrism and misogyny, or metal songs glorifying war, or punk and rock songs glorifying drugs/alcohol/sex, or even operas about incest....

...but I can also point to hundreds of examples of popular hip hop songs that express messages of love, acceptance, diversity, peace, female empowerment, anti-drugs, anti-gang, etc. In fact the 2016 Best Rap Album grammy went to an artist that is drug-free, gang-free, and releases album after album of music spreading his story about being born/raised in compton, getting in lots of trouble, finding god, and promoting love/peace wherever he goes. Sure, it may be in a dialect you may find "offensive" (i.e. curse words, slang), but that doesn't mean the message is. There's cursing in every genre. There's sexist phrases in every genre. And there's positive, celebrated artists in every genre.

So when I read posts that say that one of the "problems" in the African American community is that they idolize rap artists and sports icons, it's hard for me to not see that as crotchety "old white guy" syndome coming through...

br
Hey! I resemble that "crotchety old white guy" remark! :D



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Maker13 Sep 2 2016, 01:28 PM Post #45
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Alright, instead of deconstructing rap lyrics, let me ask this: Does a person's race or ethnicity meaningfully impact their treatment in the job market or criminal justice system?
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