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The second debate
Tweet Topic Started: Oct 9 2016, 08:11 PM (546 Views)
brumdog44 Oct 10 2016, 02:36 PM Post #46
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Mr Gray
Oct 10 2016, 07:08 AM
rkl15
Oct 10 2016, 04:42 AM
brumdog44
Oct 9 2016, 10:14 PM
rkl15
Oct 9 2016, 09:50 PM
Mr Gray
Oct 9 2016, 09:17 PM
brumdog44
Oct 9 2016, 08:59 PM
Donald Trump will not say that he has been paying federal income taxes.
He has a $916 million loss from the nineties I believe, which carries over. He should just explain that as simply as he can. Come out from behind it.
I have wondered all along about that size of a loss and tonight he said the word
that I figured created that loss, or probably a large portion of it.

Depreciation.

It is considered an "expense" and is used by each and every business
or person in business to drive down income.

I routinely see Tax Returns of farmers that report Depreciation in
excess of $300,000.

Another expense item is "Interest Paid".

So if he has debt of $10,000,000 (which I have no clue, but could be even more)
and he paid "Prime rate" on this debt, he would have another "expense" of $350,000.

So his taxes may show a loss, but still not sure.

Tax Returns in and of themselves will show you nothing.

You have to have the schedules and financials to study as well.
Bullshit that taxes in and of themselves show you nothing.

If they didn't, he would have fucking released his already.

And the amounts you are giving? Come on. $916,000,000 in losses.
Stop spinning.
Taxes, without the schedules show you nothing but the numbers.

They do NOT show you "who" he does business with.
They do NOT show you how much debt he has, or who it is to.
They do NOT show annual debt service.
They do NOT show you his assets.

There is no spin.

When I require tax returns, I always ask for schedules and a Balance Sheet.
Without those you do not get a clear picture.

If I bought a piece of equipment for $3,000,000 and it's end life salvage value is $500,000.
I would depreciate $2,500,000 over a span of 5 years.

Now in the tax returns (without schedules), I have no idea what piece of equipment was
purchased or its value.

How is that spin?

I still think the guy is an idiot.
It's not spin. Brum gets really fired up during the debates and his deep hatred for trump comes out. Everything you said is true.
Forgot about Hillary Clinton......can you tell me why anyone shouldn't have extremely negative feelings on Trump?
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rkl15 Oct 10 2016, 03:30 PM Post #47
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Oct 10 2016, 02:19 PM
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Oct 9 2016, 09:21 PM
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Oct 9 2016, 09:17 PM
brumdog44
Oct 9 2016, 08:59 PM
Donald Trump will not say that he has been paying federal income taxes.
He has a $916 million loss from the nineties I believe, which carries over. He should just explain that as simply as he can. Come out from behind it.
He won't because he won't first of all admit that he lost close to a billion dollars in a year.

Anyway, he could have saved $50 million per year in federal taxes per year for 15 years afterward. He claims a $10 billion worth. He still would have had to pay federal taxes if his wealth claims were real.

sniffles 4
That's actually not true Brum. Net worth rarely correlates to federally taxed income and definitely doesn't have to.
That isn't what I said. he may not have paid federal taxes based on some exemptions from his one year loss for a number of yeas. But the net worth he claims to have doesn't jibe with the deductions he would have sVed.

And what plays even worse is that if he hasn't paid an taxes , why does his tax plan call for even greTer breaks for therich? He says that he knows ya law better than anyone while proposing a plan that makes it even easier for guys like himself to not pay taxes.
A person's Net Worth has absolutely zero to do with their taxes.

I deal with folks who are "Asset" rich, yet don't pay near what I do in Income taxes.
And I don't have near the cash flow they have.

Two months ago a farmer bought 80 acres for $18,000/acre.
So he now has an asset worth $1,440,000.00.

So he plants this tract in corn and yields 200 bushel per acre.
So he has 16,000 bushel of corn that is selling today for December delivery at $3.27/bushel.

So this farmer with a $1.4M asset will realize Gross Income of $52,320.00.

Net Worth does not equal income.


Also, the more "Depreciable" Assets a person has, the higher the deductions.
Edited by rkl15, Oct 10 2016, 03:33 PM.
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rkl15 Oct 10 2016, 03:31 PM Post #48
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Oct 10 2016, 02:36 PM
Mr Gray
Oct 10 2016, 07:08 AM
rkl15
Oct 10 2016, 04:42 AM
brumdog44
Oct 9 2016, 10:14 PM
rkl15
Oct 9 2016, 09:50 PM
Mr Gray
Oct 9 2016, 09:17 PM
brumdog44
Oct 9 2016, 08:59 PM
Donald Trump will not say that he has been paying federal income taxes.
He has a $916 million loss from the nineties I believe, which carries over. He should just explain that as simply as he can. Come out from behind it.
I have wondered all along about that size of a loss and tonight he said the word
that I figured created that loss, or probably a large portion of it.

Depreciation.

It is considered an "expense" and is used by each and every business
or person in business to drive down income.

I routinely see Tax Returns of farmers that report Depreciation in
excess of $300,000.

Another expense item is "Interest Paid".

So if he has debt of $10,000,000 (which I have no clue, but could be even more)
and he paid "Prime rate" on this debt, he would have another "expense" of $350,000.

So his taxes may show a loss, but still not sure.

Tax Returns in and of themselves will show you nothing.

You have to have the schedules and financials to study as well.
Bullshit that taxes in and of themselves show you nothing.

If they didn't, he would have fucking released his already.

And the amounts you are giving? Come on. $916,000,000 in losses.
Stop spinning.
Taxes, without the schedules show you nothing but the numbers.

They do NOT show you "who" he does business with.
They do NOT show you how much debt he has, or who it is to.
They do NOT show annual debt service.
They do NOT show you his assets.

There is no spin.

When I require tax returns, I always ask for schedules and a Balance Sheet.
Without those you do not get a clear picture.

If I bought a piece of equipment for $3,000,000 and it's end life salvage value is $500,000.
I would depreciate $2,500,000 over a span of 5 years.

Now in the tax returns (without schedules), I have no idea what piece of equipment was
purchased or its value.

How is that spin?

I still think the guy is an idiot.
It's not spin. Brum gets really fired up during the debates and his deep hatred for trump comes out. Everything you said is true.
Forgot about Hillary Clinton......can you tell me why anyone shouldn't have extremely negative feelings on Trump?
Forget about Donald Trump.....can you tell me why anyone shouldn't have extremely negative
feelings on Hillary.

Neither are good candidates...
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brumdog44 Oct 10 2016, 06:32 PM Post #49
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No one on here has expressed any positive feelings about Hillary Clinton. No one has posted admiration about her.

But to say that they are 'both as bad as the other' simply isn't true.

Hillary Clinton is an incredibly unpopular candidate who is on pace to beat Donald Trump in a landslide. Ask yourself why that is. It sure has a hell of a lot about people voting against Donald Trump.
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brumdog44 Oct 10 2016, 06:44 PM Post #50
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rkl -- you keep talking about depreciation as if that is some unknown topic. You made a statement that you still don't know if Donald Trump actually lost money when he showed a $916,000,000 loss in 1995. Your explanation of depreciation being a possible cause makes no sense when we are talking about close to $1 billion in losses.

You keep declaring that there isn't anything in the tax returns that would tell you anything. THEN WHY NOT RELEASE THEM? Heck, even if you believe his lie about not releasing until they are out of auditing, then let's go by IRS practice: the IRS will audit up to the last three years and then may go back three more than that should an egregious error show up. So why would he not release tax returns prior to 2009?

Clinton has 40+ years of tax returns available. Trump has none. Not tough to understand who wins on that front.
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Mr Gray Oct 10 2016, 08:23 PM Post #51
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rkl15
Oct 10 2016, 03:30 PM
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Oct 10 2016, 02:19 PM
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Oct 10 2016, 07:04 AM
brumdog44
Oct 9 2016, 09:21 PM
Mr Gray
Oct 9 2016, 09:17 PM
brumdog44
Oct 9 2016, 08:59 PM
Donald Trump will not say that he has been paying federal income taxes.
He has a $916 million loss from the nineties I believe, which carries over. He should just explain that as simply as he can. Come out from behind it.
He won't because he won't first of all admit that he lost close to a billion dollars in a year.

Anyway, he could have saved $50 million per year in federal taxes per year for 15 years afterward. He claims a $10 billion worth. He still would have had to pay federal taxes if his wealth claims were real.

sniffles 4
That's actually not true Brum. Net worth rarely correlates to federally taxed income and definitely doesn't have to.
That isn't what I said. he may not have paid federal taxes based on some exemptions from his one year loss for a number of yeas. But the net worth he claims to have doesn't jibe with the deductions he would have sVed.

And what plays even worse is that if he hasn't paid an taxes , why does his tax plan call for even greTer breaks for therich? He says that he knows ya law better than anyone while proposing a plan that makes it even easier for guys like himself to not pay taxes.
A person's Net Worth has absolutely zero to do with their taxes.

I deal with folks who are "Asset" rich, yet don't pay near what I do in Income taxes.
And I don't have near the cash flow they have.

Two months ago a farmer bought 80 acres for $18,000/acre.
So he now has an asset worth $1,440,000.00.

So he plants this tract in corn and yields 200 bushel per acre.
So he has 16,000 bushel of corn that is selling today for December delivery at $3.27/bushel.

So this farmer with a $1.4M asset will realize Gross Income of $52,320.00.

Net Worth does not equal income.


Also, the more "Depreciable" Assets a person has, the higher the deductions.
You beat me to it. I own a fleet of work vans worth about $200k. I will be able to use accelerated depreciation on them this year to show a $200k loss......but I still own $200k worth of trucks. My businesses are much much much smaller than trumps.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Oct 10 2016, 10:23 PM Post #52
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accelerated depreciation would not mean that you are depreciating it over a potential of twenty years -- something that Trump does not deny.
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dreachon Oct 10 2016, 10:35 PM Post #53
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https://twitter.com/lachlan/status/785595392385687552
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brumdog44 Oct 10 2016, 10:43 PM Post #54
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Warren Buffett just owned Trump on his lies about him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/11/business/buffett-calls-trumps-bluff-and-releases-his-tax-return.html?_r=0
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dreachon Oct 10 2016, 10:50 PM Post #55
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brumdog44
Oct 10 2016, 10:43 PM
Warren Buffett just owned Trump on his lies about him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/11/business/buffett-calls-trumps-bluff-and-releases-his-tax-return.html?_r=0
Buffet is the man
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Mr Gray Oct 11 2016, 07:21 AM Post #56
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Oct 10 2016, 10:23 PM
accelerated depreciation would not mean that you are depreciating it over a potential of twenty years -- something that Trump does not deny.
Brum.......the accelerated part is mostly irrelevant. Even if I depreciated them over 5 or 20 years it doesn't change the fact that I'm taking a large depreciation loss while actually growing my net worth.

And the loss can carry over for 100 years if I'm around to file taxes that long. Do you setiously not understand that?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Oct 11 2016, 03:50 PM Post #57
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brumdog44
Oct 10 2016, 10:23 PM
accelerated depreciation would not mean that you are depreciating it over a potential of twenty years -- something that Trump does not deny.
Brum.......the accelerated part is mostly irrelevant. Even if I depreciated them over 5 or 20 years it doesn't change the fact that I'm taking a large depreciation loss while actually growing my net worth.

And the loss can carry over for 100 years if I'm around to file taxes that long. Do you setiously not understand that?
every single site I have read says that year's loss could have possibly allowed him to avoid paying federal taxes for three years prior and fifteen years past 1995.

If you believe that is incorrect, link up sites showing differently.
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Mr Gray Oct 11 2016, 09:30 PM Post #58
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Oct 11 2016, 07:21 AM
brumdog44
Oct 10 2016, 10:23 PM
accelerated depreciation would not mean that you are depreciating it over a potential of twenty years -- something that Trump does not deny.
Brum.......the accelerated part is mostly irrelevant. Even if I depreciated them over 5 or 20 years it doesn't change the fact that I'm taking a large depreciation loss while actually growing my net worth.

And the loss can carry over for 100 years if I'm around to file taxes that long. Do you setiously not understand that?
every single site I have read says that year's loss could have possibly allowed him to avoid paying federal taxes for three years prior and fifteen years past 1995.

If you believe that is incorrect, link up sites showing differently.
What? Brum I'm giving you a chance here.....it's not a big deal if you don't understand business tax codes, but don't just make stuff up. Read up on business loss carry over. It does not expire until the loss has been exhausted. You apply the loss against future capital gains at a one to one ratio. It's very conceivable and even likely that trump hasn't exhausted that yet, meaning he hasn't made 900million in capital gains since then to fully offset the loss.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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rkl15 Oct 11 2016, 09:45 PM Post #59
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brumdog44
Oct 11 2016, 03:50 PM
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Oct 11 2016, 07:21 AM
brumdog44
Oct 10 2016, 10:23 PM
accelerated depreciation would not mean that you are depreciating it over a potential of twenty years -- something that Trump does not deny.
Brum.......the accelerated part is mostly irrelevant. Even if I depreciated them over 5 or 20 years it doesn't change the fact that I'm taking a large depreciation loss while actually growing my net worth.

And the loss can carry over for 100 years if I'm around to file taxes that long. Do you setiously not understand that?
every single site I have read says that year's loss could have possibly allowed him to avoid paying federal taxes for three years prior and fifteen years past 1995.

If you believe that is incorrect, link up sites showing differently.
It can vary, but generally see Carryback 2 years and Carryforward 20 years.

IRS NOL Rules
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brumdog44 Oct 12 2016, 05:58 AM Post #60
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Mr Gray
Oct 11 2016, 09:30 PM
brumdog44
Oct 11 2016, 03:50 PM
Mr Gray
Oct 11 2016, 07:21 AM
brumdog44
Oct 10 2016, 10:23 PM
accelerated depreciation would not mean that you are depreciating it over a potential of twenty years -- something that Trump does not deny.
Brum.......the accelerated part is mostly irrelevant. Even if I depreciated them over 5 or 20 years it doesn't change the fact that I'm taking a large depreciation loss while actually growing my net worth.

And the loss can carry over for 100 years if I'm around to file taxes that long. Do you setiously not understand that?
every single site I have read says that year's loss could have possibly allowed him to avoid paying federal taxes for three years prior and fifteen years past 1995.

If you believe that is incorrect, link up sites showing differently.
What? Brum I'm giving you a chance here.....it's not a big deal if you don't understand business tax codes, but don't just make stuff up. Read up on business loss carry over. It does not expire until the loss has been exhausted. You apply the loss against future capital gains at a one to one ratio. It's very conceivable and even likely that trump hasn't exhausted that yet, meaning he hasn't made 900million in capital gains since then to fully offset the loss.
So I'm a liar?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/10/donald-trump-federal-income-taxes


I gave a simple request and stayed that everything I have read analyzing his 1995 tax returns said he could have avoided paying taxes three years prior to fifteen years after.

I never accused you of doing that -- I simply asked for links disputing what I had read. I understand how depreciation works but don't know if there are upper limits to the amount you can claim, which is why I asked for links disputing what I read. That was met with you saying I was 'making stuff up', which clearly I was not. I posted two places where I read it, you can google it and find tons of other places. I don't appreciate the accusation that I was lieing when I simply asked for links that disputed what I read so that the conversation could be moved along.
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