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Will EJ....
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 26 2008, 01:28 PM (558 Views)
Unbiased Feb 26 2008, 05:13 PM Post #76
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Feb 26 2008, 05:12 PM
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Feb 26 2008, 05:06 PM
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That's what I'm saying.  If he was in Painter's system he would probaly be playing the way Painter wanted him to or he'd be on the bench.  The things you are criticizing EJ for is because Sampson let him/encouraged him to play that way.  I believe he would do just fine in other systems/sets.

He never works too hard off the ball. And the next time he sets up a pick will be the first time I think. I don't think his game translates to our offense, I don't think his style of play would work. If he isn't getting the ball, he wouldn't be happy and there are times in the motion offense where a player or two won't get their touches for awhile.

Painter didn't recruit him for a reason. He is a great player, but he didn't fit into our needs and system. Not every player fits into every system. Most IU fans think the world of Gordon which is fine, but that doesn't mean that everybody else has to think he would fit on their team and would be a huge difference maker.

he didn't recruit Gordon because Porkchop knew he had no prayer in hell of getting him.

Didn't see that response coming......

He would have at least thrown a scholarship offer out there. Hell, he have one out to DeShaun Thomas, but I doubt we pursue him at all. But then again, he was committed to another school for about the entire time Painter was there so why would he recruit him?

if you think Gordon wouldn't fit in Porkchops borefest system, you think that gunboat Thomas would??????


he makes Gordon look like John Stockton.
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dçamden03 Feb 26 2008, 05:16 PM Post #77
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Feb 26 2008, 05:13 PM
dcamden03
Feb 26 2008, 05:12 PM
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dcamden03
Feb 26 2008, 05:06 PM
I.U.P.A.C.
Feb 26 2008, 04:40 PM
That's what I'm saying.  If he was in Painter's system he would probaly be playing the way Painter wanted him to or he'd be on the bench.  The things you are criticizing EJ for is because Sampson let him/encouraged him to play that way.  I believe he would do just fine in other systems/sets.

He never works too hard off the ball. And the next time he sets up a pick will be the first time I think. I don't think his game translates to our offense, I don't think his style of play would work. If he isn't getting the ball, he wouldn't be happy and there are times in the motion offense where a player or two won't get their touches for awhile.

Painter didn't recruit him for a reason. He is a great player, but he didn't fit into our needs and system. Not every player fits into every system. Most IU fans think the world of Gordon which is fine, but that doesn't mean that everybody else has to think he would fit on their team and would be a huge difference maker.

he didn't recruit Gordon because Porkchop knew he had no prayer in hell of getting him.

Didn't see that response coming......

He would have at least thrown a scholarship offer out there. Hell, he have one out to DeShaun Thomas, but I doubt we pursue him at all. But then again, he was committed to another school for about the entire time Painter was there so why would he recruit him?

if you think Gordon wouldn't fit in Porkchops borefest system, you think that gunboat Thomas would??????


he makes Gordon look like John Stockton.

He wouldn't thats why he probably won't recruit him. Then again, that cocky bastard of a kid probably would list every school in America as having a scholarship offer to him. I hope he goes far far away and I never have to watch him play, everything I've heard has been bad.

I just don't think Gordon is a good fit for this team. If he was here, he would play and start, but I don't think he would make our team any better. The motion offense doesn't play to his strengths and would make the rest of our team worse.
“He’s always been a guy — maybe to a fault — he would always try to do what I said. That seems like something simple in coaching, but those are the guys I hang my hat on. We’ve had some guys in our program, we had a couple guys that felt I had a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. And they were right — I do have a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. I like guys that go to class, that are academic All-Americans, that come early, that stay late, that love the game of basketball. I am biased towards those guys. And I’m biased towards Rob Hummel. But I’m also biased towards their habits, their work ethic, and how they carry themselves."

"I’d take him to the ends of the earth — I’d want him playing for me.” - Bo Ryan on Robbie Hummel

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BigTenBigBen Feb 26 2008, 05:25 PM Post #78
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dcamden03
Feb 26 2008, 05:16 PM
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Feb 26 2008, 05:13 PM
dcamden03
Feb 26 2008, 05:12 PM
Unbiased
Feb 26 2008, 05:10 PM
dcamden03
Feb 26 2008, 05:06 PM
I.U.P.A.C.
Feb 26 2008, 04:40 PM
That's what I'm saying.  If he was in Painter's system he would probaly be playing the way Painter wanted him to or he'd be on the bench.  The things you are criticizing EJ for is because Sampson let him/encouraged him to play that way.  I believe he would do just fine in other systems/sets.

He never works too hard off the ball. And the next time he sets up a pick will be the first time I think. I don't think his game translates to our offense, I don't think his style of play would work. If he isn't getting the ball, he wouldn't be happy and there are times in the motion offense where a player or two won't get their touches for awhile.

Painter didn't recruit him for a reason. He is a great player, but he didn't fit into our needs and system. Not every player fits into every system. Most IU fans think the world of Gordon which is fine, but that doesn't mean that everybody else has to think he would fit on their team and would be a huge difference maker.

he didn't recruit Gordon because Porkchop knew he had no prayer in hell of getting him.

Didn't see that response coming......

He would have at least thrown a scholarship offer out there. Hell, he have one out to DeShaun Thomas, but I doubt we pursue him at all. But then again, he was committed to another school for about the entire time Painter was there so why would he recruit him?

if you think Gordon wouldn't fit in Porkchops borefest system, you think that gunboat Thomas would??????


he makes Gordon look like John Stockton.

He wouldn't thats why he probably won't recruit him. Then again, that cocky bastard of a kid probably would list every school in America as having a scholarship offer to him. I hope he goes far far away and I never have to watch him play, everything I've heard has been bad.

I just don't think Gordon is a good fit for this team. If he was here, he would play and start, but I don't think he would make our team any better. The motion offense doesn't play to his strengths and would make the rest of our team worse.

I don't really know about that, it really depends on how he would have responded to Painter's coaching. He's a great 3 point shooter, and drives well to the basket. It really would just depend on how Painter managed him. Part of his problem now, is that the team is on his and DJ's shoulders. So he throws up a lot of shots that are contested, and he forces a lot of drives. If he was on a more balanced team like Purdue's and was coached more on shot selection, I think he could fit. His points per game wouldn't be so gaudy, but he would be an addition to the team.
"I think Ronald Reagan was the best President of our lifetime." -- Johnny Ramone
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dçamden03 Feb 26 2008, 05:31 PM Post #79
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Feb 26 2008, 05:25 PM
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Feb 26 2008, 05:16 PM
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Feb 26 2008, 05:13 PM
dcamden03
Feb 26 2008, 05:12 PM
Unbiased
Feb 26 2008, 05:10 PM
dcamden03
Feb 26 2008, 05:06 PM
I.U.P.A.C.
Feb 26 2008, 04:40 PM
That's what I'm saying.  If he was in Painter's system he would probaly be playing the way Painter wanted him to or he'd be on the bench.  The things you are criticizing EJ for is because Sampson let him/encouraged him to play that way.  I believe he would do just fine in other systems/sets.

He never works too hard off the ball. And the next time he sets up a pick will be the first time I think. I don't think his game translates to our offense, I don't think his style of play would work. If he isn't getting the ball, he wouldn't be happy and there are times in the motion offense where a player or two won't get their touches for awhile.

Painter didn't recruit him for a reason. He is a great player, but he didn't fit into our needs and system. Not every player fits into every system. Most IU fans think the world of Gordon which is fine, but that doesn't mean that everybody else has to think he would fit on their team and would be a huge difference maker.

he didn't recruit Gordon because Porkchop knew he had no prayer in hell of getting him.

Didn't see that response coming......

He would have at least thrown a scholarship offer out there. Hell, he have one out to DeShaun Thomas, but I doubt we pursue him at all. But then again, he was committed to another school for about the entire time Painter was there so why would he recruit him?

if you think Gordon wouldn't fit in Porkchops borefest system, you think that gunboat Thomas would??????


he makes Gordon look like John Stockton.

He wouldn't thats why he probably won't recruit him. Then again, that cocky bastard of a kid probably would list every school in America as having a scholarship offer to him. I hope he goes far far away and I never have to watch him play, everything I've heard has been bad.

I just don't think Gordon is a good fit for this team. If he was here, he would play and start, but I don't think he would make our team any better. The motion offense doesn't play to his strengths and would make the rest of our team worse.

I don't really know about that, it really depends on how he would have responded to Painter's coaching. He's a great 3 point shooter, and drives well to the basket. It really would just depend on how Painter managed him. Part of his problem now, is that the team is on his and DJ's shoulders. So he throws up a lot of shots that are contested, and he forces a lot of drives. If he was on a more balanced team like Purdue's and was coached more on shot selection, I think he could fit. His points per game wouldn't be so gaudy, but he would be an addition to the team.

He isn't a GREAT 3 point shooter, he is capable. He isn't even top 15 in Big Ten play (where competition is actually even). He is streaky at best.

His game is penetrating of the dribble drive, and there isn't much of that in this offense. If we went away from the motion, it would be just him with the ability to score because we don't have a great dribble drive team. He doesn't work at all off the ball, he just runs to the ball and tries to get it so he can drive, thats just how he plays. I'm sure Sampson didn't just say "Okay, we are going to just stand around and you are going to run and get the ball." He just doesn't work to get the ball, thats now how he plays. He would stunt the growth of our other players, and take them out of the game. If it wasn't for DJ and Bassett, IU would be in a world of trouble. I think they could get by without Gordon more so than DJ.
“He’s always been a guy — maybe to a fault — he would always try to do what I said. That seems like something simple in coaching, but those are the guys I hang my hat on. We’ve had some guys in our program, we had a couple guys that felt I had a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. And they were right — I do have a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. I like guys that go to class, that are academic All-Americans, that come early, that stay late, that love the game of basketball. I am biased towards those guys. And I’m biased towards Rob Hummel. But I’m also biased towards their habits, their work ethic, and how they carry themselves."

"I’d take him to the ends of the earth — I’d want him playing for me.” - Bo Ryan on Robbie Hummel

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BigTenBigBen Feb 26 2008, 05:35 PM Post #80
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Feb 26 2008, 05:31 PM
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Feb 26 2008, 05:25 PM
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Feb 26 2008, 05:16 PM
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Feb 26 2008, 05:13 PM
dcamden03
Feb 26 2008, 05:12 PM
Unbiased
Feb 26 2008, 05:10 PM
dcamden03
Feb 26 2008, 05:06 PM
I.U.P.A.C.
Feb 26 2008, 04:40 PM
That's what I'm saying.  If he was in Painter's system he would probaly be playing the way Painter wanted him to or he'd be on the bench.  The things you are criticizing EJ for is because Sampson let him/encouraged him to play that way.  I believe he would do just fine in other systems/sets.

He never works too hard off the ball. And the next time he sets up a pick will be the first time I think. I don't think his game translates to our offense, I don't think his style of play would work. If he isn't getting the ball, he wouldn't be happy and there are times in the motion offense where a player or two won't get their touches for awhile.

Painter didn't recruit him for a reason. He is a great player, but he didn't fit into our needs and system. Not every player fits into every system. Most IU fans think the world of Gordon which is fine, but that doesn't mean that everybody else has to think he would fit on their team and would be a huge difference maker.

he didn't recruit Gordon because Porkchop knew he had no prayer in hell of getting him.

Didn't see that response coming......

He would have at least thrown a scholarship offer out there. Hell, he have one out to DeShaun Thomas, but I doubt we pursue him at all. But then again, he was committed to another school for about the entire time Painter was there so why would he recruit him?

if you think Gordon wouldn't fit in Porkchops borefest system, you think that gunboat Thomas would??????


he makes Gordon look like John Stockton.

He wouldn't thats why he probably won't recruit him. Then again, that cocky bastard of a kid probably would list every school in America as having a scholarship offer to him. I hope he goes far far away and I never have to watch him play, everything I've heard has been bad.

I just don't think Gordon is a good fit for this team. If he was here, he would play and start, but I don't think he would make our team any better. The motion offense doesn't play to his strengths and would make the rest of our team worse.

I don't really know about that, it really depends on how he would have responded to Painter's coaching. He's a great 3 point shooter, and drives well to the basket. It really would just depend on how Painter managed him. Part of his problem now, is that the team is on his and DJ's shoulders. So he throws up a lot of shots that are contested, and he forces a lot of drives. If he was on a more balanced team like Purdue's and was coached more on shot selection, I think he could fit. His points per game wouldn't be so gaudy, but he would be an addition to the team.

He isn't a GREAT 3 point shooter, he is capable. He isn't even top 15 in Big Ten play (where competition is actually even). He is streaky at best.

His game is penetrating of the dribble drive, and there isn't much of that in this offense. If we went away from the motion, it would be just him with the ability to score because we don't have a great dribble drive team. He doesn't work at all off the ball, he just runs to the ball and tries to get it so he can drive, thats just how he plays. I'm sure Sampson didn't just say "Okay, we are going to just stand around and you are going to run and get the ball." He just doesn't work to get the ball, thats now how he plays. He would stunt the growth of our other players, and take them out of the game. If it wasn't for DJ and Bassett, IU would be in a world of trouble. I think they could get by without Gordon more so than DJ.

Maybe so, but the not working off the ball is something a coach should point out and make him work on. As for his 3pt shooting, I think a lot of it is shot selection. He's shown great range, but he throws it up there often just to throw it up there.
"I think Ronald Reagan was the best President of our lifetime." -- Johnny Ramone
"Something you Democrats would never understand: Americans - we're homesteaders. We want a safe home, keep the money we make, and shoot bad guys."
- William Shatner as Denny Crane, Boston Legal
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BigTenBigBen Feb 26 2008, 05:36 PM Post #81
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Feb 26 2008, 05:31 PM
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dcamden03
Feb 26 2008, 05:16 PM
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Feb 26 2008, 05:13 PM
dcamden03
Feb 26 2008, 05:12 PM
Unbiased
Feb 26 2008, 05:10 PM
dcamden03
Feb 26 2008, 05:06 PM
I.U.P.A.C.
Feb 26 2008, 04:40 PM
That's what I'm saying.  If he was in Painter's system he would probaly be playing the way Painter wanted him to or he'd be on the bench.  The things you are criticizing EJ for is because Sampson let him/encouraged him to play that way.  I believe he would do just fine in other systems/sets.

He never works too hard off the ball. And the next time he sets up a pick will be the first time I think. I don't think his game translates to our offense, I don't think his style of play would work. If he isn't getting the ball, he wouldn't be happy and there are times in the motion offense where a player or two won't get their touches for awhile.

Painter didn't recruit him for a reason. He is a great player, but he didn't fit into our needs and system. Not every player fits into every system. Most IU fans think the world of Gordon which is fine, but that doesn't mean that everybody else has to think he would fit on their team and would be a huge difference maker.

he didn't recruit Gordon because Porkchop knew he had no prayer in hell of getting him.

Didn't see that response coming......

He would have at least thrown a scholarship offer out there. Hell, he have one out to DeShaun Thomas, but I doubt we pursue him at all. But then again, he was committed to another school for about the entire time Painter was there so why would he recruit him?

if you think Gordon wouldn't fit in Porkchops borefest system, you think that gunboat Thomas would??????


he makes Gordon look like John Stockton.

He wouldn't thats why he probably won't recruit him. Then again, that cocky bastard of a kid probably would list every school in America as having a scholarship offer to him. I hope he goes far far away and I never have to watch him play, everything I've heard has been bad.

I just don't think Gordon is a good fit for this team. If he was here, he would play and start, but I don't think he would make our team any better. The motion offense doesn't play to his strengths and would make the rest of our team worse.

I don't really know about that, it really depends on how he would have responded to Painter's coaching. He's a great 3 point shooter, and drives well to the basket. It really would just depend on how Painter managed him. Part of his problem now, is that the team is on his and DJ's shoulders. So he throws up a lot of shots that are contested, and he forces a lot of drives. If he was on a more balanced team like Purdue's and was coached more on shot selection, I think he could fit. His points per game wouldn't be so gaudy, but he would be an addition to the team.

He isn't a GREAT 3 point shooter, he is capable. He isn't even top 15 in Big Ten play (where competition is actually even). He is streaky at best.

His game is penetrating of the dribble drive, and there isn't much of that in this offense. If we went away from the motion, it would be just him with the ability to score because we don't have a great dribble drive team. He doesn't work at all off the ball, he just runs to the ball and tries to get it so he can drive, thats just how he plays. I'm sure Sampson didn't just say "Okay, we are going to just stand around and you are going to run and get the ball." He just doesn't work to get the ball, thats now how he plays. He would stunt the growth of our other players, and take them out of the game. If it wasn't for DJ and Bassett, IU would be in a world of trouble. I think they could get by without Gordon more so than DJ.

Maybe so, but the not working off the ball is something a coach should point out and make him work on. As for his 3pt shooting, I think a lot of it is shot selection. He's shown great range, but he throws it up there often just to throw it up there.

I doubt Sampson would say that, but it is likely that he didn't teach or work on movement off the ball.
"I think Ronald Reagan was the best President of our lifetime." -- Johnny Ramone
"Something you Democrats would never understand: Americans - we're homesteaders. We want a safe home, keep the money we make, and shoot bad guys."
- William Shatner as Denny Crane, Boston Legal
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dçamden03 Feb 26 2008, 05:42 PM Post #82
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You don't think Sampson ever talked about moving off the ball to get open? I know many think he is a bad coach and he doesn't run an offense with a lot of movement, but I find it hard to believe that he never told him to move off the ball to get open. I think my 4th grade basketball coach taught me that.

And he misses his fair share of open 3s. He CAN hit the deep three, but that doesn't mean he does it often or at a great rate. He hits a lot of 3s because he shoots so many. He isn't a great 3 point shooter, he is somebody you have to account for, but a guy hitting 35% isn't being a great 3 point shooter.
“He’s always been a guy — maybe to a fault — he would always try to do what I said. That seems like something simple in coaching, but those are the guys I hang my hat on. We’ve had some guys in our program, we had a couple guys that felt I had a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. And they were right — I do have a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. I like guys that go to class, that are academic All-Americans, that come early, that stay late, that love the game of basketball. I am biased towards those guys. And I’m biased towards Rob Hummel. But I’m also biased towards their habits, their work ethic, and how they carry themselves."

"I’d take him to the ends of the earth — I’d want him playing for me.” - Bo Ryan on Robbie Hummel

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Jazen Feb 26 2008, 05:43 PM Post #83
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I read the topic title to this thread, and it was called "Will Ej"..

Dunk?

[dohtml]<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rrAc3mSeyyE&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rrAc3mSeyyE&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>[/dohtml]

Ouch, and this is in High School.


:chug:
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BigTenBigBen Feb 26 2008, 05:51 PM Post #84
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Feb 26 2008, 05:42 PM
You don't think Sampson ever talked about moving off the ball to get open? I know many think he is a bad coach and he doesn't run an offense with a lot of movement, but I find it hard to believe that he never told him to move off the ball to get open. I think my 4th grade basketball coach taught me that.

And he misses his fair share of open 3s. He CAN hit the deep three, but that doesn't mean he does it often or at a great rate. He hits a lot of 3s because he shoots so many. He isn't a great 3 point shooter, he is somebody you have to account for, but a guy hitting 35% isn't being a great 3 point shooter.

I don't think he never talked about it, but talking about it and instilling it in his players are two different things. But the premise of my argument is that Painter could coach him better, and that Sampson didn't control him. He might not be that coachable, and if that's the case your completely right because his style as it is right now does not fit.
Nice video Jazen. That would be sick to see a dunk like that in high school.
"I think Ronald Reagan was the best President of our lifetime." -- Johnny Ramone
"Something you Democrats would never understand: Americans - we're homesteaders. We want a safe home, keep the money we make, and shoot bad guys."
- William Shatner as Denny Crane, Boston Legal
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