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Around the Horn; Final Question...
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 27 2008, 05:30 PM (544 Views)
IU1fan Feb 28 2008, 02:35 PM Post #31
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I think people are saying we have a better chance to go to the Final 4 than Purdue are actually correct.  I don't think IU will make it to the Final 4, but I think that our team gives us a better shot.  We have 2 players on our team that are All-American candidates and can carry us through the tourney.  I wouldn't pencil IU into the Final 4 either.  But our team has good guards, and a presence down low with DJ.  Our team is just a little better suited to make a run.  Doesn't mean we will and you won't.  Stop being so sensitive about it.

Its not that you have a better chance, its that they think you are more likely too go to the final four, there is a difference. I disagree, however, IU makes lots of turnovers, and with mainly a 2 player team, its easier to focus your defense. You have 2 big wins and thats about it, one to Purdue on your own court and the other @OSU which is not exactly a great team. There is nothing in your resume which really says final 4 team. Purdue at least has the win @ wisconsin which is a hell of a road game to have on your resume. I think IU fans are getting a little ahead of themselves. What we're sensitive of is comments like aaronk2727's about us having no chance and IU has a shot which is utter garbage.

better chance, more likely, aren't the two pretty much synonomous? I wouldn't say that we have a two player team. We have two very good players and we have two other good players in Ellis and Bassett. You can even throw Crawford in there when he isn't making Freshman mistakes. Doesn't Bassett have the best 3 percentage in Big Ten? Those shots come up big in the Dance.
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dçamden03 Feb 28 2008, 02:36 PM Post #32
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Feb 28 2008, 02:35 PM
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Feb 28 2008, 02:21 PM
I think people are saying we have a better chance to go to the Final 4 than Purdue are actually correct.  I don't think IU will make it to the Final 4, but I think that our team gives us a better shot.  We have 2 players on our team that are All-American candidates and can carry us through the tourney.  I wouldn't pencil IU into the Final 4 either.  But our team has good guards, and a presence down low with DJ.  Our team is just a little better suited to make a run.  Doesn't mean we will and you won't.  Stop being so sensitive about it.

Its not that you have a better chance, its that they think you are more likely too go to the final four, there is a difference. I disagree, however, IU makes lots of turnovers, and with mainly a 2 player team, its easier to focus your defense. You have 2 big wins and thats about it, one to Purdue on your own court and the other @OSU which is not exactly a great team. There is nothing in your resume which really says final 4 team. Purdue at least has the win @ wisconsin which is a hell of a road game to have on your resume. I think IU fans are getting a little ahead of themselves. What we're sensitive of is comments like aaronk2727's about us having no chance and IU has a shot which is utter garbage.

better chance, more likely, aren't the two pretty much synonomous? I wouldn't say that we have a two player team. We have two very good players and we have two other good players in Ellis and Bassett. You can even throw Crawford in there when he isn't making Freshman mistakes. Doesn't Bassett have the best 3 percentage in Big Ten? Those shots come up big in the Dance.

In Big Ten play, Bassett is third:


1.Hoffarber, Blake-MINN.... FR 15 30 63 .476
2.Hummel, Robbie-PUR....... FR 14 24 52 .462
3.Bassett, Armon-IND....... SO 14 29 63 .460
“He’s always been a guy — maybe to a fault — he would always try to do what I said. That seems like something simple in coaching, but those are the guys I hang my hat on. We’ve had some guys in our program, we had a couple guys that felt I had a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. And they were right — I do have a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. I like guys that go to class, that are academic All-Americans, that come early, that stay late, that love the game of basketball. I am biased towards those guys. And I’m biased towards Rob Hummel. But I’m also biased towards their habits, their work ethic, and how they carry themselves."

"I’d take him to the ends of the earth — I’d want him playing for me.” - Bo Ryan on Robbie Hummel

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tkeena33 Feb 28 2008, 02:38 PM Post #33
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We have DJ and EJ, but Bassett and Crawford are also capable of stepping up and scoring if necessary. You guys play as a team and pride yourselves on your defense, but you don't really have a low-post presence.

I really don't think this is IU homerism. I believe we have a team that is better suited to make a deep run. I think most people who are objective viewers of college basketball would agree.

I would never say "Purdue has no shot" to make a Final Four run, because they do. If they shoot the ball well and continue to play defense, they have a chance to beat anybody.
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BoilerTheFU Feb 28 2008, 02:40 PM Post #34
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Feb 28 2008, 02:35 PM
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Feb 28 2008, 02:31 PM
tkeena33
Feb 28 2008, 02:21 PM
I think people are saying we have a better chance to go to the Final 4 than Purdue are actually correct.  I don't think IU will make it to the Final 4, but I think that our team gives us a better shot.  We have 2 players on our team that are All-American candidates and can carry us through the tourney.  I wouldn't pencil IU into the Final 4 either.  But our team has good guards, and a presence down low with DJ.  Our team is just a little better suited to make a run.  Doesn't mean we will and you won't.  Stop being so sensitive about it.

Its not that you have a better chance, its that they think you are more likely too go to the final four, there is a difference. I disagree, however, IU makes lots of turnovers, and with mainly a 2 player team, its easier to focus your defense. You have 2 big wins and thats about it, one to Purdue on your own court and the other @OSU which is not exactly a great team. There is nothing in your resume which really says final 4 team. Purdue at least has the win @ wisconsin which is a hell of a road game to have on your resume. I think IU fans are getting a little ahead of themselves. What we're sensitive of is comments like aaronk2727's about us having no chance and IU has a shot which is utter garbage.

better chance, more likely, aren't the two pretty much synonomous? I wouldn't say that we have a two player team. We have two very good players and we have two other good players in Ellis and Bassett. You can even throw Crawford in there when he isn't making Freshman mistakes. Doesn't Bassett have the best 3 percentage in Big Ten? Those shots come up big in the Dance.

No that would be a kid from minn hoffabarber and then hummel at 47% and 46%.
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HoosierLars Feb 28 2008, 02:43 PM Post #35
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dcamden03
Feb 28 2008, 02:36 PM
IU1fan
Feb 28 2008, 02:35 PM
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Feb 28 2008, 02:31 PM
tkeena33
Feb 28 2008, 02:21 PM
I think people are saying we have a better chance to go to the Final 4 than Purdue are actually correct.  I don't think IU will make it to the Final 4, but I think that our team gives us a better shot.  We have 2 players on our team that are All-American candidates and can carry us through the tourney.  I wouldn't pencil IU into the Final 4 either.  But our team has good guards, and a presence down low with DJ.  Our team is just a little better suited to make a run.  Doesn't mean we will and you won't.  Stop being so sensitive about it.

Its not that you have a better chance, its that they think you are more likely too go to the final four, there is a difference. I disagree, however, IU makes lots of turnovers, and with mainly a 2 player team, its easier to focus your defense. You have 2 big wins and thats about it, one to Purdue on your own court and the other @OSU which is not exactly a great team. There is nothing in your resume which really says final 4 team. Purdue at least has the win @ wisconsin which is a hell of a road game to have on your resume. I think IU fans are getting a little ahead of themselves. What we're sensitive of is comments like aaronk2727's about us having no chance and IU has a shot which is utter garbage.

better chance, more likely, aren't the two pretty much synonomous? I wouldn't say that we have a two player team. We have two very good players and we have two other good players in Ellis and Bassett. You can even throw Crawford in there when he isn't making Freshman mistakes. Doesn't Bassett have the best 3 percentage in Big Ten? Those shots come up big in the Dance.

In Big Ten play, Bassett is third:


1.Hoffarber, Blake-MINN.... FR 15 30 63 .476
2.Hummel, Robbie-PUR....... FR 14 24 52 .462
3.Bassett, Armon-IND....... SO 14 29 63 .460

Dc, you can't really count Hummel because his release is kind of funky, and UB doesn't like the way he looks. And we've already conceded he's not nearly as athletic as Kobe.
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dçamden03 Feb 28 2008, 02:44 PM Post #36
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Feb 28 2008, 02:38 PM
We have DJ and EJ, but Bassett and Crawford are also capable of stepping up and scoring if necessary. You guys play as a team and pride yourselves on your defense, but you don't really have a low-post presence.

I really don't think this is IU homerism. I believe we have a team that is better suited to make a deep run. I think most people who are objective viewers of college basketball would agree.

I would never say "Purdue has no shot" to make a Final Four run, because they do. If they shoot the ball well and continue to play defense, they have a chance to beat anybody.

I just find it humorous how all of this has changed in about a two week span. All of a sudden, after a nice win against MSU, and then three close wins against obviously inferior teams, you all of a sudden are a huge threat to make the Final Four. I will never believe that a team who starts either Lance Stemler or Kyle Taber and plays them meaningful minutes, will ever make a Final Four.

Relying on two players to score two thirds of your points will absolutely haunt you in the NCAAs.
“He’s always been a guy — maybe to a fault — he would always try to do what I said. That seems like something simple in coaching, but those are the guys I hang my hat on. We’ve had some guys in our program, we had a couple guys that felt I had a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. And they were right — I do have a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. I like guys that go to class, that are academic All-Americans, that come early, that stay late, that love the game of basketball. I am biased towards those guys. And I’m biased towards Rob Hummel. But I’m also biased towards their habits, their work ethic, and how they carry themselves."

"I’d take him to the ends of the earth — I’d want him playing for me.” - Bo Ryan on Robbie Hummel

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dçamden03 Feb 28 2008, 02:46 PM Post #37
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Feb 28 2008, 02:43 PM
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Feb 28 2008, 02:35 PM
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Feb 28 2008, 02:31 PM
tkeena33
Feb 28 2008, 02:21 PM
I think people are saying we have a better chance to go to the Final 4 than Purdue are actually correct.  I don't think IU will make it to the Final 4, but I think that our team gives us a better shot.  We have 2 players on our team that are All-American candidates and can carry us through the tourney.  I wouldn't pencil IU into the Final 4 either.  But our team has good guards, and a presence down low with DJ.  Our team is just a little better suited to make a run.  Doesn't mean we will and you won't.  Stop being so sensitive about it.

Its not that you have a better chance, its that they think you are more likely too go to the final four, there is a difference. I disagree, however, IU makes lots of turnovers, and with mainly a 2 player team, its easier to focus your defense. You have 2 big wins and thats about it, one to Purdue on your own court and the other @OSU which is not exactly a great team. There is nothing in your resume which really says final 4 team. Purdue at least has the win @ wisconsin which is a hell of a road game to have on your resume. I think IU fans are getting a little ahead of themselves. What we're sensitive of is comments like aaronk2727's about us having no chance and IU has a shot which is utter garbage.

better chance, more likely, aren't the two pretty much synonomous? I wouldn't say that we have a two player team. We have two very good players and we have two other good players in Ellis and Bassett. You can even throw Crawford in there when he isn't making Freshman mistakes. Doesn't Bassett have the best 3 percentage in Big Ten? Those shots come up big in the Dance.

In Big Ten play, Bassett is third:


1.Hoffarber, Blake-MINN.... FR 15 30 63 .476
2.Hummel, Robbie-PUR....... FR 14 24 52 .462
3.Bassett, Armon-IND....... SO 14 29 63 .460

Dc, you can't really count Hummel because his release is kind of funky, and UB doesn't like the way he looks. And we've already conceded he's not nearly as athletic as Kobe.

You are right and the Minny kid is a lefty, and those guys aren't any good.

I'd say the top three point shooters in the Big Ten are probably Bassett then Gordon (did you see him hit that NBA range three!!!!! WOW!!!!!!!) then Crawford. Everybody else is about as good as Ellis and Stemler because even though the others hit their shots they are goofy and don't play for IU.
“He’s always been a guy — maybe to a fault — he would always try to do what I said. That seems like something simple in coaching, but those are the guys I hang my hat on. We’ve had some guys in our program, we had a couple guys that felt I had a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. And they were right — I do have a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. I like guys that go to class, that are academic All-Americans, that come early, that stay late, that love the game of basketball. I am biased towards those guys. And I’m biased towards Rob Hummel. But I’m also biased towards their habits, their work ethic, and how they carry themselves."

"I’d take him to the ends of the earth — I’d want him playing for me.” - Bo Ryan on Robbie Hummel

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tkeena33 Feb 28 2008, 02:48 PM Post #38
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Feb 28 2008, 02:31 PM
tkeena33
Feb 28 2008, 02:21 PM
I think people are saying we have a better chance to go to the Final 4 than Purdue are actually correct.  I don't think IU will make it to the Final 4, but I think that our team gives us a better shot.  We have 2 players on our team that are All-American candidates and can carry us through the tourney.  I wouldn't pencil IU into the Final 4 either.  But our team has good guards, and a presence down low with DJ.  Our team is just a little better suited to make a run.  Doesn't mean we will and you won't.  Stop being so sensitive about it.

Its not that you have a better chance, its that they think you are more likely too go to the final four, there is a difference. I disagree, however, IU makes lots of turnovers, and with mainly a 2 player team, its easier to focus your defense. You have 2 big wins and thats about it, one to Purdue on your own court and the other @OSU which is not exactly a great team. There is nothing in your resume which really says final 4 team. Purdue at least has the win @ wisconsin which is a hell of a road game to have on your resume. I think IU fans are getting a little ahead of themselves. What we're sensitive of is comments like aaronk2727's about us having no chance and IU has a shot which is utter garbage.

We also beat MSU at home. You guys have some good wins, but I don't see anything in your schedule that makes you more likely to go to the Final 4. You guys have wins against Louisville, Wisconsin (twice), and MSU. We have wins against MSU and Purdue. We have also won at SIU and at OSU. We are 6-4 against RPI top 50. You guys are 5-3. I'd say that's pretty comparable. Neither team has played a really tough schedule and neither team's schedule suggests that they are a great team with a 50% chance to make a Final Four run.
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IU1fan Feb 28 2008, 02:50 PM Post #39
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According to ESPN, season average (not just conference play)
Bassett- .487
Hummell- .444
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BigTenBigBen Feb 28 2008, 02:51 PM Post #40
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Feb 28 2008, 02:21 PM
I think people are saying we have a better chance to go to the Final 4 than Purdue are actually correct.  I don't think IU will make it to the Final 4, but I think that our team gives us a better shot.  We have 2 players on our team that are All-American candidates and can carry us through the tourney.  I wouldn't pencil IU into the Final 4 either.  But our team has good guards, and a presence down low with DJ.  Our team is just a little better suited to make a run.  Doesn't mean we will and you won't.  Stop being so sensitive about it.

Its not that you have a better chance, its that they think you are more likely too go to the final four, there is a difference. I disagree, however, IU makes lots of turnovers, and with mainly a 2 player team, its easier to focus your defense. You have 2 big wins and thats about it, one to Purdue on your own court and the other @OSU which is not exactly a great team. There is nothing in your resume which really says final 4 team. Purdue at least has the win @ wisconsin which is a hell of a road game to have on your resume. I think IU fans are getting a little ahead of themselves. What we're sensitive of is comments like aaronk2727's about us having no chance and IU has a shot which is utter garbage.

better chance, more likely, aren't the two pretty much synonomous? I wouldn't say that we have a two player team. We have two very good players and we have two other good players in Ellis and Bassett. You can even throw Crawford in there when he isn't making Freshman mistakes. Doesn't Bassett have the best 3 percentage in Big Ten? Those shots come up big in the Dance.

Better chance and more likely are not the same thing. We have just as much chance to go the final four. We have to win 4 games just like anyone else and right now we have the same seeding as IU. You can argue about who is more likely to capitalize on that chance with the makeup of their team, but in the end they all have the same shot, especially IU and Purdue this year since they are slated to be the same seed.
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tkeena33 Feb 28 2008, 02:53 PM Post #41
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We have DJ and EJ, but Bassett and Crawford are also capable of stepping up and scoring if necessary.  You guys play as a team and pride yourselves on your defense, but you don't really have a low-post presence.

I really don't think this is IU homerism.  I believe we have a team that is better suited to make a deep run.  I think most people who are objective viewers of college basketball would agree.

I would never say "Purdue has no shot" to make a Final Four run, because they do.  If they shoot the ball well and continue to play defense, they have a chance to beat anybody.

I just find it humorous how all of this has changed in about a two week span. All of a sudden, after a nice win against MSU, and then three close wins against obviously inferior teams, you all of a sudden are a huge threat to make the Final Four. I will never believe that a team who starts either Lance Stemler or Kyle Taber and plays them meaningful minutes, will ever make a Final Four.

Relying on two players to score two thirds of your points will absolutely haunt you in the NCAAs.

read the post DC. Never said we are a huge threat to make the Final Four. I didn't say I even thought we would make the Final Four. I just think we have a team that is better suited to make it than Purdue. That is it. I really don't think either team is a HUGE threat to make the Final 4. Both teams are capable, but will need to play to their full potential several games in a row. I don't think either team will make it to the Final 4.

I actually don't think there will be a Big 10 team in the Final 4. I will be rooting for all of them though.
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BigTenBigBen Feb 28 2008, 03:01 PM Post #42
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Feb 28 2008, 02:53 PM
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Feb 28 2008, 02:38 PM
We have DJ and EJ, but Bassett and Crawford are also capable of stepping up and scoring if necessary.  You guys play as a team and pride yourselves on your defense, but you don't really have a low-post presence.

I really don't think this is IU homerism.  I believe we have a team that is better suited to make a deep run.  I think most people who are objective viewers of college basketball would agree.

I would never say "Purdue has no shot" to make a Final Four run, because they do.  If they shoot the ball well and continue to play defense, they have a chance to beat anybody.

I just find it humorous how all of this has changed in about a two week span. All of a sudden, after a nice win against MSU, and then three close wins against obviously inferior teams, you all of a sudden are a huge threat to make the Final Four. I will never believe that a team who starts either Lance Stemler or Kyle Taber and plays them meaningful minutes, will ever make a Final Four.

Relying on two players to score two thirds of your points will absolutely haunt you in the NCAAs.

read the post DC. Never said we are a huge threat to make the Final Four. I didn't say I even thought we would make the Final Four. I just think we have a team that is better suited to make it than Purdue. That is it. I really don't think either team is a HUGE threat to make the Final 4. Both teams are capable, but will need to play to their full potential several games in a row. I don't think either team will make it to the Final 4.

I actually don't think there will be a Big 10 team in the Final 4. I will be rooting for all of them though.

I don't know about no team in the Final Four. We've had ten Big Ten teams make the final four in the last 10 years (although some of those years we had 2 and some we didn't have any). Between the 4 top Big Ten teams, I think 1 of us will make it.
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HoosierLars Feb 28 2008, 03:02 PM Post #43
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Feb 28 2008, 02:48 PM
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Feb 28 2008, 02:21 PM
I think people are saying we have a better chance to go to the Final 4 than Purdue are actually correct.  I don't think IU will make it to the Final 4, but I think that our team gives us a better shot.  We have 2 players on our team that are All-American candidates and can carry us through the tourney.  I wouldn't pencil IU into the Final 4 either.  But our team has good guards, and a presence down low with DJ.  Our team is just a little better suited to make a run.  Doesn't mean we will and you won't.  Stop being so sensitive about it.

Its not that you have a better chance, its that they think you are more likely too go to the final four, there is a difference. I disagree, however, IU makes lots of turnovers, and with mainly a 2 player team, its easier to focus your defense. You have 2 big wins and thats about it, one to Purdue on your own court and the other @OSU which is not exactly a great team. There is nothing in your resume which really says final 4 team. Purdue at least has the win @ wisconsin which is a hell of a road game to have on your resume. I think IU fans are getting a little ahead of themselves. What we're sensitive of is comments like aaronk2727's about us having no chance and IU has a shot which is utter garbage.

We also beat MSU at home. You guys have some good wins, but I don't see anything in your schedule that makes you more likely to go to the Final 4. You guys have wins against Louisville, Wisconsin (twice), and MSU. We have wins against MSU and Purdue. We have also won at SIU and at OSU. We are 6-4 against RPI top 50. You guys are 5-3. I'd say that's pretty comparable. Neither team has played a really tough schedule and neither team's schedule suggests that they are a great team with a 50% chance to make a Final Four run.

Comparing records against RPI top 50 teams is a decent measure for determining which team might make the tourney, or maybe even the Sweet 16. But if you're looking at making the Final Four, you need to be looking at the top 15, and since MSU is #16, let's look at our records against the RPI top 16:

IU 1-4 :asskick: Purdue 4-1
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Anarchy Feb 28 2008, 03:05 PM Post #44
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tkeena33
Feb 28 2008, 02:21 PM
I think people are saying we have a better chance to go to the Final 4 than Purdue are actually correct.  I don't think IU will make it to the Final 4, but I think that our team gives us a better shot.  We have 2 players on our team that are All-American candidates and can carry us through the tourney.  I wouldn't pencil IU into the Final 4 either.  But our team has good guards, and a presence down low with DJ.  Our team is just a little better suited to make a run.  Doesn't mean we will and you won't.  Stop being so sensitive about it.

Its not that you have a better chance, its that they think you are more likely too go to the final four, there is a difference. I disagree, however, IU makes lots of turnovers, and with mainly a 2 player team, its easier to focus your defense. You have 2 big wins and thats about it, one to Purdue on your own court and the other @OSU which is not exactly a great team. There is nothing in your resume which really says final 4 team. Purdue at least has the win @ wisconsin which is a hell of a road game to have on your resume. I think IU fans are getting a little ahead of themselves. What we're sensitive of is comments like aaronk2727's about us having no chance and IU has a shot which is utter garbage.

We also beat MSU at home. You guys have some good wins, but I don't see anything in your schedule that makes you more likely to go to the Final 4. You guys have wins against Louisville, Wisconsin (twice), and MSU. We have wins against MSU and Purdue. We have also won at SIU and at OSU. We are 6-4 against RPI top 50. You guys are 5-3. I'd say that's pretty comparable. Neither team has played a really tough schedule and neither team's schedule suggests that they are a great team with a 50% chance to make a Final Four run.

Comparing records against RPI top 50 teams is a decent measure for determining which team might make the tourney, or maybe even the Sweet 16. But if you're looking at making the Final Four, you need to be looking at the top 15, and since MSU is #16, let's look at our records against the RPI top 16:

IU 1-4 :asskick: Purdue 4-1

Tourney Play
Purdue :balls: IU
:rofl:
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tkeena33 Feb 28 2008, 03:07 PM Post #45
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BigTenBigBen
Feb 28 2008, 03:01 PM
tkeena33
Feb 28 2008, 02:53 PM
dcamden03
Feb 28 2008, 02:44 PM
tkeena33
Feb 28 2008, 02:38 PM
We have DJ and EJ, but Bassett and Crawford are also capable of stepping up and scoring if necessary.  You guys play as a team and pride yourselves on your defense, but you don't really have a low-post presence.

I really don't think this is IU homerism.  I believe we have a team that is better suited to make a deep run.  I think most people who are objective viewers of college basketball would agree.

I would never say "Purdue has no shot" to make a Final Four run, because they do.  If they shoot the ball well and continue to play defense, they have a chance to beat anybody.

I just find it humorous how all of this has changed in about a two week span. All of a sudden, after a nice win against MSU, and then three close wins against obviously inferior teams, you all of a sudden are a huge threat to make the Final Four. I will never believe that a team who starts either Lance Stemler or Kyle Taber and plays them meaningful minutes, will ever make a Final Four.

Relying on two players to score two thirds of your points will absolutely haunt you in the NCAAs.

read the post DC. Never said we are a huge threat to make the Final Four. I didn't say I even thought we would make the Final Four. I just think we have a team that is better suited to make it than Purdue. That is it. I really don't think either team is a HUGE threat to make the Final 4. Both teams are capable, but will need to play to their full potential several games in a row. I don't think either team will make it to the Final 4.

I actually don't think there will be a Big 10 team in the Final 4. I will be rooting for all of them though.

I don't know about no team in the Final Four. We've had ten Big Ten teams make the final four in the last 10 years (although some of those years we had 2 and some we didn't have any). Between the 4 top Big Ten teams, I think 1 of us will make it.

Just a prediction. Probably won't be a Big 10 team better than a 3 seed, meaning they will all probably have a very tough route to the Final 4. I'd say the teams that are HUGE threats to make the final 4 are all ranked in the top 7 right now. I wouldn't be surprised if all four Final Four teams came out of that bunch, but I think 3 of those teams will make the Final 4.
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