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Racism
Tweet Topic Started: May 6 2008, 10:11 PM (914 Views)
boilerup86 May 7 2008, 01:41 PM Post #46
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HoosierLars
May 7 2008, 01:33 PM
This is exactly the type of response I was hoping to see, boilerup. Nicely done.

If I had worded the question, "Which NC group was influenced more by race when voting" Black or White, would people have responded better/

rac·ism (rszm)
n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.


This poll is dead on for definition #2. I'll be waiting for some apologies from my political board friends. :cheers:

I could reasonably agree with the second definition. However, you have to be careful throwing around words such as racist, just for the type of reactions they can invoke in people. It is a word that transcends the boundaries of the dictionary. Anytime a word like that gets thrown around you are bound to get some sort of passionate reaction. However, I think that was your goal here, you seem to be an instigator ;).
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hoosierinhogville May 7 2008, 01:47 PM Post #47
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HoosierLars
May 7 2008, 01:26 PM
hoosierinhogville
May 7 2008, 09:53 AM
ok, I said this before, but you guys obviously didn't listen. So, I will try again. These black people that you are talking about are for the most part liberal democrats. They are going to vote democrat in the primary and they are going to vote democrat in the general. As a democrat they are choosing between two people whose platforms are virtually the same, so does it really make them racist to vote for Obama? I mean c'mon lets be honest with ourselves here. If you had to choose between two people who were virtually the same on every policy would you not be inclined to vote for the person who was most like you?

Also think about this. Many of these same blacks voted for John Kerry in 2004. So were they not racist then, and all of the sudden are now racist?

Hogville, 92% of black men and women voted for Obama over Hillary, the wife of our "first black president", a man who garnered almost 90% of the black vote. If you, Brian, Eel, and NLA can't admit this statistical data STRONGLY suggests black voters are voting for a black candidate, then you have some serious issues you need to work through. That's why I'm here. :D

I thought this thread might spark more thoughtful debate, not you guys throwing hissy fits and acting like your intelligence has been insulted, and "worst poll ever", and I'm the racist. Get a grip, guys.

92% for Obama, and 8% for Hillary... What does it take for you guys to be reasonable here. How about 98% for Obama? Or would you still assert that blacks are just voting for the best candidate? I think some of you have lost a lot of credibility on this issue.

I understand what you are saying Lars. I never said that black people aren't basing part of their decision to vote for Obama on his race, but I guess where we don't see eye to eye on is that I don't think that makes black people necessarily racist. As I stated in an early post, if you show me statistics that show that a large portion of black conservatives are voting for Obama, then I might be more inclined to agree with you, because they obviously wouldn't be voting for him on the issues. You aren't doing that though. All you are doing is repeating "black people are voting for Obabma so they must be racist." Of course you then go on to say that these same people gave Bill 90% of the black vote, which to me defeats your whole argument. Afterall, if these people are such racists, why would they have voted for a white man 10 years ago? But then maybe you and I have a different idea what a racist is.
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Anarchy May 7 2008, 01:54 PM Post #48
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If Obama wins the nomination and runs against McCain. I just hope that Florida or any other state doesn't screw up, because you know it will turn into a racial issue.
Just stating the obvious.... B)
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HoosierLars May 7 2008, 01:56 PM Post #49
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hoosierinhogville
May 7 2008, 01:47 PM
HoosierLars
May 7 2008, 01:26 PM
hoosierinhogville
May 7 2008, 09:53 AM
ok, I said this before, but you guys obviously didn't listen. So, I will try again. These black people that you are talking about are for the most part liberal democrats. They are going to vote democrat in the primary and they are going to vote democrat in the general. As a democrat they are choosing between two people whose platforms are virtually the same, so does it really make them racist to vote for Obama? I mean c'mon lets be honest with ourselves here. If you had to choose between two people who were virtually the same on every policy would you not be inclined to vote for the person who was most like you?

Also think about this. Many of these same blacks voted for John Kerry in 2004. So were they not racist then, and all of the sudden are now racist?

Hogville, 92% of black men and women voted for Obama over Hillary, the wife of our "first black president", a man who garnered almost 90% of the black vote. If you, Brian, Eel, and NLA can't admit this statistical data STRONGLY suggests black voters are voting for a black candidate, then you have some serious issues you need to work through. That's why I'm here. :D

I thought this thread might spark more thoughtful debate, not you guys throwing hissy fits and acting like your intelligence has been insulted, and "worst poll ever", and I'm the racist. Get a grip, guys.

92% for Obama, and 8% for Hillary... What does it take for you guys to be reasonable here. How about 98% for Obama? Or would you still assert that blacks are just voting for the best candidate? I think some of you have lost a lot of credibility on this issue.

I understand what you are saying Lars. I never said that black people aren't basing part of their decision to vote for Obama on his race, but I guess where we don't see eye to eye on is that I don't think that makes black people necessarily racist. As I stated in an early post, if you show me statistics that show that a large portion of black conservatives are voting for Obama, then I might be more inclined to agree with you, because they obviously wouldn't be voting for him on the issues. You aren't doing that though. All you are doing is repeating "black people are voting for Obabma so they must be racist." Of course you then go on to say that these same people gave Bill 90% of the black vote, which to me defeats your whole argument. Afterall, if these people are such racists, why would they have voted for a white man 10 years ago? But then maybe you and I have a different idea what a racist is.

I see what you're saying, Hogville. Ten years ago there wasn't a black candidate. Here's the second definition of "racist":

2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

If you vote for a candidate based on race, that's a racist action, plain and simple. The numbers for white voters show they also have a tendency to vote for the white candidate, but to a much lessor degree. Hence, the poll asks "who's more racist?" We all exhibit a certain amount of racism, and I think the main point here is whites tend to be the least "racist" of all of the races living in the US. Yet they are the ones frequently called racist.
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HoosierLars May 7 2008, 01:59 PM Post #50
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Anarchy06
May 7 2008, 01:54 PM
If Obama wins the nomination and runs against McCain. I just hope that Florida or any other state doesn't screw up, because you know it will turn into a racial issue.
Just stating the obvious.... B)

Be careful, Anarchy, sometimes stating the obvious will get you labeled a racist in this PC society. ;)
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hoosierinhogville May 7 2008, 02:20 PM Post #51
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May 7 2008, 01:56 PM
I think the main point here is whites tend to be the least "racist" of all of the races living in the US. Yet they are the ones frequently called racist.

Wow. I think you are really going on a fishing expidition on this one. I can see where you are going with your arguement about blacks and Obama, but to try to extrapolate the results of a democratic primary to cover the whole nation in order to prove your point that white people are less racist than any other group is more than a little ridiculous.
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Mr Gray May 7 2008, 02:21 PM Post #52
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hoosierinhogville
May 7 2008, 01:47 PM
I understand what you are saying Lars. I never said that black people aren't basing part of their decision to vote for Obama on his race, but I guess where we don't see eye to eye on is that I don't think that makes black people necessarily racist. As I stated in an early post, if you show me statistics that show that a large portion of black conservatives are voting for Obama, then I might be more inclined to agree with you, because they obviously wouldn't be voting for him on the issues. You aren't doing that though. All you are doing is repeating "black people are voting for Obabma so they must be racist." Of course you then go on to say that these same people gave Bill 90% of the black vote, which to me defeats your whole argument. Afterall, if these people are such racists, why would they have voted for a white man 10 years ago? But then maybe you and I have a different idea what a racist is.

Quote:
 
Of course you then go on to say that these  same people gave Bill 90% of the black vote, which to me defeats your whole argument. Afterall, if these people are such racists, why would they have voted for a white man 10 years ago?

That doesn't defeat is argument at all, it 100% supports it. The black people loved Bill Clinton. Hillary is running for office. Hillary and Bill have the same political ideas. Hillary and Obama are very similar. Black people are now voting for Obama instead of Clinton. Why did their love for Clinton leave when a black candidate with mostly the same ideas showed up?

That chain of events points directly to the concept that black people are chosing their candidate largely becaue of color.

FYI, I know lars said it already, but just to re-state the obvious, there was no black candidate running against Bill.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray May 7 2008, 02:23 PM Post #53
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hoosierinhogville
May 7 2008, 01:47 PM
But then maybe you and I have a different idea what a racist is.

hoosier, I am basing my idea on what "racist" means by the same definition that Lars is using. It could very well be that we have a different definition.....how do you define a racist?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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HoosierLars May 7 2008, 02:26 PM Post #54
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aaronk2727
May 7 2008, 02:21 PM
hoosierinhogville
May 7 2008, 01:47 PM
I understand what you are saying Lars. I never said that black people aren't basing part of their decision to vote for Obama on his race,  but I guess where we don't see eye to eye on is that I don't think that makes black people necessarily racist. As I stated in an early post, if you show me statistics that show that a large portion of black conservatives are voting for Obama, then I might be more inclined to agree with you, because they obviously wouldn't be voting for him on the issues. You aren't doing that though. All you are doing is repeating "black people are voting for Obabma so they must be racist." Of course you then go on to say that these  same people gave Bill 90% of the black vote, which to me defeats your whole argument. Afterall, if these people are such racists, why would they have voted for a white man 10 years ago? But then maybe you and I have a different idea what a racist is.

Quote:
 
Of course you then go on to say that these  same people gave Bill 90% of the black vote, which to me defeats your whole argument. Afterall, if these people are such racists, why would they have voted for a white man 10 years ago?

That doesn't defeat is argument at all, it 100% supports it. The black people loved Bill Clinton. Hillary is running for office. Hillary and Bill have the same political ideas. Hillary and Obama are very similar. Black people are now voting for Obama instead of Clinton. Why did their love for Clinton leave when a black candidate with mostly the same ideas showed up?

That chain of events points directly to the concept that black people are chosing their candidate largely becaue of color.

FYI, I know lars said it already, but just to re-state the obvious, there was no black candidate running against Bill.

Aaron, I'm glad you get it. I know these other guys are smart, so I think they have been so conditioned to always think of whites being racist, that they can't follow the simple logic of my argument here. I have to admit I'm somewhat surprised by their reactions.

92% for Obama. But they were just voting on the issues. :sarcasm:
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Mr Gray May 7 2008, 02:27 PM Post #55
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boilerup86
May 7 2008, 01:41 PM
However, you have to be careful throwing around words such as racist, just for the type of reactions they can invoke in people.

I have to agree with you, but it is unfortunate that in this new PC world, certain words with legitimate meaning cannot be discussed without people throwing a fit. If you are a racist, you should not consider it a derogatory term.....if you are a racist and you do consider it a derogatory term, then quit being a racist. That's probably too much common sense for today's society though.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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eelbor May 7 2008, 02:27 PM Post #56
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HoosierLars
May 7 2008, 01:17 PM
BoilerNLA
May 7 2008, 12:10 PM
which brings up a good question....  In States that have "Open Primaries", how to they determine the voter turn out precentages by party?    I'm sure alot of Repubs voted for Hillary yesterday in Indiana.

NLA, you need to take this up with Eel. Yesterday he said Limbaugh is "irrelevant."

I'll say it again if you want to hear it. Limbaugh is irrelevant.
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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eelbor May 7 2008, 02:40 PM Post #57
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hoosierinhogville
May 7 2008, 02:20 PM
HoosierLars
May 7 2008, 01:56 PM
I think the main point here is whites tend to be the least "racist" of all of the races living in the US.  Yet they are the ones frequently called racist.

Wow. I think you are really going on a fishing expidition on this one. I can see where you are going with your arguement about blacks and Obama, but to try to extrapolate the results of a democratic primary to cover the whole nation in order to prove your point that white people are less racist than any other group is more than a little ridiculous.

Thank you Hogville. This is the point I was trying to make. It is an enormous leap to go from "blacks in NC preferred a black presidential candidate" to "blacks in NC preferred a black presidential candidate because the entire black race is more racist than us whites".

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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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hoosierinhogville May 7 2008, 02:40 PM Post #58
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aaronk2727
May 7 2008, 02:23 PM
hoosierinhogville
May 7 2008, 01:47 PM
But then maybe you and I have a different idea what a racist is.

hoosier, I am basing my idea on what "racist" means by the same definition that Lars is using. It could very well be that we have a different definition.....how do you define a racist?

The man that I work with who is sitting about 6 feet to my left as I type this has stated and I quote "I would never vote for no nigger" he has also made it abundantly clear that he thinks every black person is a "nigger". That to me is the definition of a racist. To me you aren't a racist on a case by case basis. If you are black and you are a racist you aren't going to vote for Bill Clinton. Just like my co-worker would never vote for a black conservative Republican even though he is a conservative Republican, because he is a racist.
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Mr Gray May 7 2008, 02:47 PM Post #59
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eelbor
May 7 2008, 02:27 PM
I'll say it again if you want to hear it. Limbaugh is irrelevant.

You should get into politics eel, just keep repeating the same thing over and over again while completely ignoring the facts against your case and offering none of your own. It sounds familiar...."HOPE & CHANGE" What kind of change? "The kind of change that comes from hope." Where do we get the hope? "From change." What if gas prices give me no hope? "then you need to change". My taxes are so high now, will you change that? "we can only hope"
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray May 7 2008, 02:53 PM Post #60
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hey Hog, I run my own business. If I have a job opening and I interview three candidates. One of them is white, one of them is black, and one is mexican. They are all basically equally qualified, and any one of them would be a great fit for my organization. Because they are all so equal, I decide to offer the job to the white candidate because of his color. Am I a racist for this act? It will be tempting, but try not to dodge the question.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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