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| Aaronk a question | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 27 2008, 11:46 AM (307 Views) | |
| boilergrad01 | Sep 27 2008, 11:46 AM Post #1 |
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Working on the last 5
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In the debate last night Obama said he would raise the taxes on anyone making over 250,000 a year. I have heard him in other debates claim he would hit those making over 250,000 with payroll taxes and a higher tax bracket. I as you know started my own franchise and by 2010 hope to be making around 300,000 a year. I have learned growing a business is hard. Right now I am dipping into my savings to accomplish this goal. My financial advisor encourages my behavior because she says it is a investment in myself. MY question is do you consider Obama to be taxing success? I very well could have a great 2010 but I am also taking a risk why should I be punished for attempting to be what i consider successful. For the sake of argument lets say I make 300,000 in 2010 and Obama wins the election. So with the increase in payroll taxes and the over 250,000 tax increase would i actually take home less money than if I made 235,000? I feel that would be the case. How in America where the dream is to become successful as one desires could someone be punished by making money? |
| Nothing beats an Astronaut | |
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| enemydeservesnomercy | Sep 27 2008, 01:31 PM Post #2 |
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Coach
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...i know i'm not aaronk but i couldn't help buy throw my two cents in... ...i gotta say man, that i wish you could be on the outside looking in to what you are saying...it's pretty pathetic... ...are you honestly complaining about being taxed more because you make $300,000?...you say that Obama is taxing success by taxing those that make over $250,000...so, if you make less than $250,000 you are not successful?...wow!...do you realize what percentage of individuals make less than $250,000 in this country?...do you realize how many individuals and couples would dream of making that much money and arguably work just as hard if not harder than those who are lucky enough to be in that elite category... ...maybe you need to be more clear because to me you honestly sound like a greedy crybaby...and i honestly am not trying to challenge your character...i just don't understand how someone could complain about making over $250,000... ...believe me, i'm not saying that growing a business is not hard and that you have not earned your money but how much is enough to make you happy...i'm also not saying that the lower and middle class deserve to be handed money but if taxes need to be raised do you honestly think that people scraping by paycheck to paycheck need to be hit just as hard as those who are wanting to move up to a 3,500 sq. ft. home from their "small" 2,500 sq. ft. home...or are wanting to move up to a mercedes suv from their ford suv... ...awww, those poor people... ...like i said man, i hope i've got you pegged wrong but from the tone and angle of your post all i see or hear is GREED...and GREED is exactly what got this country into the mess that it is in right now...people need to stop right now and figure out how much is enough...because there is no reason people making over $250,000 should ever complain about their income bracket but instead be thanking someone daily about how lucky they are to be where they are... ...with all sincerity... :cheers: Edited by enemydeservesnomercy, Sep 27 2008, 01:34 PM.
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| "The possibilities of basketball as seen here were a revelation to me. Basketball may have been invented in Massachusetts, but it was made for Indiana." | |
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| yawnzzz | Sep 27 2008, 01:45 PM Post #3 |
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Coach
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I've got to agree with Enemy. In the coming years I'll be in that higher tax bracket as well, and I'm not concerned about being taxed more. For my business, I treat my employees like small partners, so there will never be a large discrepancy in the amount that I make compared to them. Several of my employees have positions where I could replace them with new employees easily and pay them a third of what they make. Unlike a lot of businesses, I'll never do that. As long as they work hard, their paycheck will continue to increase as my company continues to do well. If this was the case amongst all businesses than I would be for an even taxing system, but it's not, and it never will be. Doing consulting, I've dealt with a lot of businesses, and I've yet to see one structured this way. There's not to many business owners like me that would never see the need for a house over 2,000 square feet or the need to buy a Mercedes. If there were, I'd change my opinion. |
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| enemydeservesnomercy | Sep 27 2008, 02:14 PM Post #4 |
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Coach
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...faithful, i wish that you owned the company that i work for...i completely agree with your model for how to run a business... ...i work for a small company that is in its 6th year...i was the first employee hired and over the past five years have sat witness to a revolving door of employees substituting one another in favor of lower salaries...i truly feel that our company and product have suffered because of this... ...it's basically a matter of either running a 'sweat shop' where the employees are miserable both at work and at home because of the increasing amount of work they are doing and the decreasing amount of wages they are bringing home...all while the owner or ceo is just getting richer and richer...or... ...running it the way faithful believes in and everyone earns a nice, honest living and are actually happy to go to work, proud of the work they do, proud of they money they bring home and actually respect the people that they are working for... ...like you said the even taxing system would be worth a look if more owners would adopt this approach but that is highly unlikely so the only reasonable thing to do is to tax according to or somewhat close to what Obama has proposed... |
| "The possibilities of basketball as seen here were a revelation to me. Basketball may have been invented in Massachusetts, but it was made for Indiana." | |
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| yawnzzz | Sep 27 2008, 02:28 PM Post #5 |
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Coach
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Enemy, what type of company do you work for? With all of the companies I've done consulting for, it's pretty obvious that there's a lot of companies out there that fail to grasp how great they can become if they would value the experience of their employees. I'm normally put in a unique perspective where I sit-in on executive meetings while working closely on lower level details with their employees that executives don't understand and have no desire to learn. They prefer making decisions based on figures because that's all they understand. I've seen dozens of employees let go only to hire replacements that required a years worth of training to be anything comparable to their counterpart. I've saved lots of people's jobs by conveying to the executives that it's actually a loss when you factor in the time lost due to hours spend on training along with the mood that's set amongst fellow employees that it's not valued to better themselves. In a lot of companies, once you outgrow your role, than instead of reevaluating how you can be used in a more prominent role they instead replace you with someone that's inept enough to be satisfied with the original position. In my company, I have several employees that never attended college. They started out doing temp work, and I've slowly given them more and more responsibilities. The difference between my business and most others is that I do understand the low level details of what each employees does and could be the back-up for any employee that works for me. Having this knowledge makes me also realize how many intangibles that they hold from their experience. It also creates a great moral around the office when everyone knows that doing their job better to help my company will directly result in a benefit to them. |
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| boilergrad01 | Sep 27 2008, 02:48 PM Post #6 |
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Working on the last 5
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Enenmy, I do not consider it greedy at all. I could easily take a 80,000 a year job as a Government contracting job any day of the week. I want to operate a regional office and was offered a franchise type situation at no cost. My total profit margin after paying support charges and expenses is like 7%. So if i make $300,000 in profit then I will have created over $4 million in business. I am in the energy efficient lighting and water conservation business. So if I gross 4.5 Million then I am creating jobs. Someone has to ship the ballast and lamps to the job-site. A crew has to install the new lighting systems. That feeds the economy. So far this year I am have dipped over $10,000 into my savings because I believe I can grow the market i am in. Imagine driving over 600 miles a week and paying for the gas every week. I pay for my gas car and insurance. Gas alone is costing over $150 A WEEK. I will be lucky to make $9,000 this year. I do not go out on the weekends. I do not goto games. I have played golf once this year and that was with my friend who paid. I work all the time. I need to dress respectfully and have dry cleaning expenses. I am putting all the money I saved in Iraq on the line here and if i am successful and create more jobs I am rewarded with higher taxes. So no I am not greedy. I am trying to create jobs. I have plans to establish a Veteran scholarship fund. I plan to give to the American heart association and to Diabetes research. My point is should someone that works their ass off and takes a risk be punished because someone determines $300,000 is rich. If I achieve my goals i cannot stop working. I cannot live on that forever. i will have to continue to produce year after year. I have a bad year i make no money. My potential salary is totally performance driven. Do you realize that if i make $300,000 a year i will pay over $100,000 in income tax and payroll taxes. Then you figure I have to re invest in my franchise and try to save for the future and not a whole lot of money is left. The $300,000 looks like alot but it is not as much as you might think. |
| Nothing beats an Astronaut | |
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| hoosierinhogville | Sep 27 2008, 03:02 PM Post #7 |
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Uh ok. I know one family, not one person, one family tat makes more than 300,000 a year. I know several people that make around 150,000 and they live pretty nice lifestyles. 300,000 is a lot. |
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| enemydeservesnomercy | Sep 27 2008, 03:09 PM Post #8 |
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Coach
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...wow, faithful, i feel like we are in each other's heads...i 100% agree with your philosophy... ...i'm in litigation support...basically think of it as an 'elaborate kinko's'...we help lawfirms prepare for trials and do whatever needs to be done with their confidential documents...it is a really popular business in Nashville, TN...we are constantly handling huge malpractice suits, high profile divorces, you name it...if i wasn't as honest as i am i could have retired by selling the information that i come across, on a daily basis, to people magazine...it's an extremely demanding but potentially lucrative sort of company... |
| "The possibilities of basketball as seen here were a revelation to me. Basketball may have been invented in Massachusetts, but it was made for Indiana." | |
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| boilergrad01 | Sep 27 2008, 03:16 PM Post #9 |
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Working on the last 5
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faithful, i agree in 2010 I could live a very comfortable lifestyle. Obama calls it rich. To me rich means having enough you are not stressed to produce each month. I know most Americans are and understand that if i can grow the business I will live very comfortably. I believe in giving back. If Obama wins and does what he says he will do and raises it to a 42% bracket and lifts the payroll tax limit that is an additional 7.5 percent and I would pay close to 50% of my income in taxes. keep in mind that If i make that kinda of money I will be creating jobs and the parent company provides insurance to the workers. I will also be saving business alot of money because are projects have a 2.6 year payback and a 10 year life span. Minus buying new lamps but ours have 20% longer life and cost less. So my organization could also help save jobs. I agree at most companies the saving will be passed along to the excutives. I agree many companies do not pay their employess wat they are worth. My dad worked for years at a chemical factory. if a plant went down it would cost them around $200,000 a day in lost production. he never made more than $60,000 a year while the executives who had no idea how to get the plant running made large salaries. |
| Nothing beats an Astronaut | |
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| enemydeservesnomercy | Sep 27 2008, 03:25 PM Post #10 |
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Coach
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...well, boiler, you sound like a decent human being and congratulations for your success...sincerely...but i just disagree with your belief that $300,000 is not alot of money... ...i think there should be tax breaks for small businesses...which it sounds like you have...or if somone's job or company is saving energy then they should have a tax break...and if i'm not mistaken obama's plan has these...am i wrong?...because i could have swore that i've heard this referenced... ...i do not doubt that you work your ass off but unfortunately people don't get paid for how hard they work and sadly alot of the time how many hours they put in (i know i don't, i'm salary with commission - i make the same no matter how many hours i work)... ...i just believe if someone is bringing home a salary from a single position making over $250,000 then they should not be entitled to these tax breaks...i don't care how you cut it, that is a shitload of money and you should be very happy with it and more than be able to make ends meet... |
| "The possibilities of basketball as seen here were a revelation to me. Basketball may have been invented in Massachusetts, but it was made for Indiana." | |
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| yawnzzz | Sep 27 2008, 03:32 PM Post #11 |
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Coach
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That wasn't my comment, but I'll add in my 2 cents. You feel that you deserve to not be taxed in a higher bracket because you've taken a great risk in starting this business. You're also concerned about the long-term sustainability of your business. So, look at it this way. If you want to avoid being in a high tax bracket, all you have to do is reinvest your money into your business. Hire new employees and give bonuses to where your profit remains right below the higher tax bracket. In that way, your business will grow, and you can continue to live a very successful life over the long-term instead of just protecting yourself in the short-term. Don't forget that while the initial start-up of your business was a risk, so is the risk that any employee takes when he or she joins your company. They may have a guaranteed salary for the year, but very few people would accept a position if they thought you'd be gone in a year. That's the risk they take because if you go under, they'll have to start over as well, and they'll likely be losing money by switching to another company. If you don't feel that reinvesting will benefit you, then give to charities. Start-up that Veteran Fund that you always wanted to do and make it great by giving a lot to it while you can. I really do understand that it's a large risk starting your own business because it's one I deal with daily, but I don't fear my business struggling. If we struggle down the road, I'm confident that I could find another endeavor that would be profitable as well, and I think if you look in the mirror, you'd realize that if you have the ability to run this business successful enough to be in that high tax bracket, then you've got a talent unlike a lot of people where you'll always be able to find or create your own job. |
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| boilergrad01 | Sep 27 2008, 03:40 PM Post #12 |
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Working on the last 5
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Enemy, Thanks but I have not made any money yet but am close to signing a two long term deals. Well it will take about 15 months to complete them and If i can continue to add acoounts a little above my current rate and increase my employee base an add sales people I should do well. Nothing is guaranteed. Yes there are tax breaks and certain power companies offer rebates for converting lighting systems. Yes small business get special tax breaks but Obama is going to lower that rate which could limit growth and limit my ability to create more jobs. I agree with u and Faithful you must treat your employess like family and reward them. |
| Nothing beats an Astronaut | |
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| boilergrad01 | Sep 27 2008, 03:43 PM Post #13 |
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Working on the last 5
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Faithful, I think you know Veterans are a big cause in my life. if and a big if McCain makes a comback and I was offered a job in the Vet administration at a level I feel i can make a difference I will probably eat my losses and got to DC. That is looking less likely today as the numbers continue to slide. The Dems are winning the PR game as of right now. |
| Nothing beats an Astronaut | |
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| mongo | Sep 27 2008, 07:04 PM Post #14 |
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Coach
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Wow this is super fucking lame. You poor baby.... |
![]() "Son, if you really want something in this life you have to work hard for it. Now quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers." | |
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| Mr Gray | Sep 27 2008, 08:07 PM Post #15 |
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Coach
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Boiler, to answer your original question, yes I feel that our current (or any) progressive tax system discourages success, and decreases ambition and drive, 2 major contributing elements to the rapid rise of this nation to begin with. I have spoken out on here countless times for The FairTax, which has more benefits than we could even imagine for EVERY American citizen. To the rest of you on this thread. $300,000/year is definitely a lot of money, and absolutely allows someone to live comfortably. Unfortunately, you guys are missing the point. There is no dollar amount that a person earns that makes it "OK" to take it from him/her against his will and distribute/waste it as you see fit. Should we send buses into the ghettos of America, round up the criminals and drop them off at all the gated communities to burglarize the homes? By the reasoning that I am hearing on here, that should be OK because the ghetto folds are the ones who "need" it, and the gated community folks can "afford to lose it" right? There is just no constitutional or moral justification for the Robin Hood theory that many of you seem to be advocating. http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer Edited by Mr Gray, Sep 27 2008, 08:08 PM.
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![]() The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism. | |
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