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SNL Skit
Tweet Topic Started: Sep 28 2008, 09:10 PM (836 Views)
sirbrianwilson Oct 4 2008, 04:40 PM Post #91
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probability doesn't enter the equation unless you're talking about that it's possible. evolution might have fail ten to the tenth to the tenth degree amount of times, but since it happened just once, we're able to sit here and talk about these things. we wouldn't know any difference.

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HoosierLars Oct 4 2008, 04:58 PM Post #92
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Maker13
Oct 4 2008, 03:37 PM
The amino acids are still not proteins. And even if they can manage that, the existence of proteins doesn't mean cells are going to form. Or start working. If I take all the pieces of a camera and put them in a box and shake it, I'm not going to open the box and find a working camera. Even if I do it 100 million times. The math on evolution is nuts. I don't have any of it in front of me, but I did a few papers on it in high school. The probability that everything works out like the theory says is absolutely astronomical.

As for HoosierFaithful, every system degenerates. 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Things atrophy, human genetics is no different. What could have started as perfect has gain flaws through the random mutations that happen during impregnation and cell reproduction.
But if you shook the box up 100 billion times, who knows. :D
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eelbor Oct 4 2008, 05:11 PM Post #93
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Oct 4 2008, 03:37 PM
As for HoosierFaithful, every system degenerates. 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Things atrophy, human genetics is no different. What could have started as perfect has gain flaws through the random mutations that happen during impregnation and cell reproduction.
That is an over simplification. Yes, every time there is a transfer of energy from one form to another, useful energy is lost, but... that in no way indicates that things within the system cannot in the short term become more complex.

If you want an easy example from the real world, there is an easy one.

Crystals grow. The medium from which they can grow is substantially less organized than the crystal, yet the crystal grows andl become more complex. The system itself may be losing energy, but that does not mean an individual element within the the system may not gain in complexity at another element's expense.
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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brumdog44 Oct 4 2008, 07:10 PM Post #94
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On the second day, god put Alaska close to Russia. God was a true American, always looking out for our foreign policies.
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yawnzzz Oct 4 2008, 09:08 PM Post #95
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Oct 4 2008, 03:37 PM
As for HoosierFaithful, every system degenerates. 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Things atrophy, human genetics is no different. What could have started as perfect has gain flaws through the random mutations that happen during impregnation and cell reproduction.
You mean God could create humans, but the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is beyond his scope.....
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Mr Gray Oct 5 2008, 12:55 PM Post #96
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Oct 3 2008, 04:45 PM
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Oct 3 2008, 03:26 PM
As for how did life start and is it possible for life to spawn from nothing, I believe that this in fact has already proven to be ture. If not true, at least extremely likely. I don't keep up with the Science Daily or anything so I'm not sure.

I believe this is what the primordial soup is. Scientists put a bunch or elements and molecules together that they think likely existed in early earth and amino acids and proteins started to form. Proteins of course are the basic building blocks of life (literally every living thing is made of proteins). I haven't kept up with whether they were able to get rudimentary life from these amino acids and proteins or not, but I believe if they haven't, they're close.
I'm gonna go ahead and call you out on this one. I could have missed something somewhere if this discovery has been made, but I'm fairly sure that's not true. It's my birthday and I'm way more concerned about working on the keg that just showed up on my doorstep, but the wikipedia page has a lot of stuff in it. The theory is definitely there, but it is just that, a theory.

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As of 2008, no one has yet synthesized a "protocell" using basic components which would have the necessary properties of life (the so-called "bottom-up-approach"). Without such a proof-of-principle, explanations have tended to be short on specifics.


Anyways, I'm cashing out of this one until I regain consciousness, which could be as late as Tuesday. I love college.


Ok, so no life yet, but the amino acids are there. I think in time they'll be able to carry this experiment out to fruition.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=primordial-soup-urey-miller-evolution-experiment-repeated
you "think in time they'll be able to carry this experiment out to fruition"......haha. Sounds like someone is stretching to avoid the serious problem in his reasoning. They haven't even come close...they have been trying to create spontaneous life for years with nothing but failure. Even "success" at their experiments wouldn't be conclusive because they are still starting with some common elements....who the hell created the elements to begin with?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Oct 6 2008, 09:48 AM Post #97
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Oct 5 2008, 12:55 PM
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=primordial-soup-urey-miller-evolution-experiment-repeated
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you "think in time they'll be able to carry this experiment out to fruition"......haha. Sounds like someone is stretching to avoid the serious problem in his reasoning. They haven't even come close...they have been trying to create spontaneous life for years with nothing but failure. Even "success" at their experiments wouldn't be conclusive because they are still starting with some common elements....who the hell created the elements to begin with?
Hey, I don't question that there is a G-d and that he must have created the Universe at one point or another. I do believe in evolution though.

I understand the enormous odds against creating life from a bunch of elements. You are right that scientists have been trying for years and they haven't been able to do it. They were also probably trying for years before they even got Amino Acids.

These scientists are trying to create life one experiment at a time. My personal belief is at the time life started on this planet, there were literally millions of these "experiments" going on all over the world for literally thousands of years. Only 1 of these situations needed to result in a single cell organism. By that thinking the odds swing in the other direction and I think it almost would have been impossible for life NOT to start.

Edited by dreachon, Oct 6 2008, 09:50 AM.
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