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I feel sorry for; the poor & middle class
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 4 2008, 10:09 PM (408 Views)
tyler8186 Nov 5 2008, 12:38 PM Post #16
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aaronk2727
Nov 4 2008, 10:09 PM

I am not rich, but my prosperity will endure any President because I am not afraid of hard work, and I ask for nothing from anyone. If I want it, I find a way to get it, and I find a way to keep it. I am the lower end of the people to whom many of these voters seek a piece of prosperity from, and believe me when I tell you, as you go up the ladder the grip get's tighter.

What is this supposed to mean? That all the poor and lower middle class have to do to succeed is work as hard as you? The poor are afraid of hard work? This Bootstraps way of thinking is old, outdated, and ignorant. Have you heard of 'white priviledge'?

Let me know if I misjudged your statement.
Edited by tyler8186, Nov 5 2008, 12:39 PM.
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Mr Gray Nov 5 2008, 01:59 PM Post #17
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Nov 5 2008, 12:38 PM
aaronk2727
Nov 4 2008, 10:09 PM

I am not rich, but my prosperity will endure any President because I am not afraid of hard work, and I ask for nothing from anyone. If I want it, I find a way to get it, and I find a way to keep it. I am the lower end of the people to whom many of these voters seek a piece of prosperity from, and believe me when I tell you, as you go up the ladder the grip get's tighter.

What is this supposed to mean? That all the poor and lower middle class have to do to succeed is work as hard as you? The poor are afraid of hard work? This Bootstraps way of thinking is old, outdated, and ignorant. Have you heard of 'white priviledge'?

Let me know if I misjudged your statement.
I'm not sure if you misjudged my statement, but I have posted my philosophy regarding the poor on here before, but it has been 6 months or so, so here it is again. Initially you will want to contradict my claim and fill your response with insulting rhetoric, but before you do that, please take a moment to think it through and come up with examples of situations where my theory doesn't hold up. Here you go.

All poor Americans call into one of the following 3 categories:

1) Lazy
2) Content
3) Children & Physically or Mentally handicapped

I support public assistance for category #3, but none for the other 2 categories.

As for your question of "white privilege" I have heard of it, but I don't see it as a relevent in today's "post-civil rights" society. Racism certainly still exists on both sides, however as a society we have made every effort (and more) to ensure that racism doesn't inhibit opportunity.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Nov 5 2008, 02:09 PM Post #18
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aaronk2727
Nov 5 2008, 01:59 PM
tyler8186
Nov 5 2008, 12:38 PM
aaronk2727
Nov 4 2008, 10:09 PM

I am not rich, but my prosperity will endure any President because I am not afraid of hard work, and I ask for nothing from anyone. If I want it, I find a way to get it, and I find a way to keep it. I am the lower end of the people to whom many of these voters seek a piece of prosperity from, and believe me when I tell you, as you go up the ladder the grip get's tighter.

What is this supposed to mean? That all the poor and lower middle class have to do to succeed is work as hard as you? The poor are afraid of hard work? This Bootstraps way of thinking is old, outdated, and ignorant. Have you heard of 'white priviledge'?

Let me know if I misjudged your statement.
I'm not sure if you misjudged my statement, but I have posted my philosophy regarding the poor on here before, but it has been 6 months or so, so here it is again. Initially you will want to contradict my claim and fill your response with insulting rhetoric, but before you do that, please take a moment to think it through and come up with examples of situations where my theory doesn't hold up. Here you go.

All poor Americans call into one of the following 3 categories:

1) Lazy
2) Content
3) Children & Physically or Mentally handicapped

I support public assistance for category #3, but none for the other 2 categories.

As for your question of "white privilege" I have heard of it, but I don't see it as a relevent in today's "post-civil rights" society. Racism certainly still exists on both sides, however as a society we have made every effort (and more) to ensure that racism doesn't inhibit opportunity.
Haha. This reminds me of the girl in my wife's anthropology class that wrote the reason Mexico is a poor country is because the people just don't work as hard. If they worked harder, they would be a rich country. Needless to say, she failed.
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Mr Gray Nov 5 2008, 02:09 PM Post #19
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Nov 5 2008, 10:48 AM
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Nov 5 2008, 10:40 AM
eelbor
Nov 5 2008, 10:27 AM
Note to Aaron. The sky is not falling. Yet. Buck up, we survived 8 years of Bush didn't we?
agreed, but I am just very disappointed in what I perceive as the extreme ignorance and unconstitutional motivations of the millions of citizens who voted Obama into office last night. Very disappointed
Then figure out what you need to do to change things. You like your house representitive Pence, yes? Encourage him to run for Bayh's seat in 2010, or back another candidate that is actually conservative. Getting Bayh's seat is a very high goal to set, and may seem unlikely, but so was Obama's plan to turn Indiana Blue in this election. The republican party needs to shed the dead wood.
eel, I don't like to talk in too many specifics on here (as none of us really do), but we have been meeting for months now within the Republican party to address our leadership, and direction in the future. Our plan is evolving very nicely, and some parts of it are going to be put in motion in early 2009 so that we aren't caught off guard again. The democrats have caught the Republicans asleep at the wheel in the middle of a perfect storm (Bush's problems combined with an elequent young minority candidate), and that cannot happen again.

I am running for office in 2010, and am hoping that our GOP revamp has taken place well before that. I have also made it very clear that I, along with many others, will be leaving the party before then if we are not satisfied with the direction we are going. There are some VERY VERY highly respected and powerful individuals who are involved with this group as well, so I believe we will get things done, but if not we are also prepared with an exit plan B. So to summarize, I am never one to just bitch and moan while doing nothing.....sitting on the sidelines is not my style, but thanks for the pep talk anyway.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Nov 5 2008, 02:10 PM Post #20
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dreachon
Nov 5 2008, 02:09 PM
aaronk2727
Nov 5 2008, 01:59 PM
tyler8186
Nov 5 2008, 12:38 PM
aaronk2727
Nov 4 2008, 10:09 PM

I am not rich, but my prosperity will endure any President because I am not afraid of hard work, and I ask for nothing from anyone. If I want it, I find a way to get it, and I find a way to keep it. I am the lower end of the people to whom many of these voters seek a piece of prosperity from, and believe me when I tell you, as you go up the ladder the grip get's tighter.

What is this supposed to mean? That all the poor and lower middle class have to do to succeed is work as hard as you? The poor are afraid of hard work? This Bootstraps way of thinking is old, outdated, and ignorant. Have you heard of 'white priviledge'?

Let me know if I misjudged your statement.
I'm not sure if you misjudged my statement, but I have posted my philosophy regarding the poor on here before, but it has been 6 months or so, so here it is again. Initially you will want to contradict my claim and fill your response with insulting rhetoric, but before you do that, please take a moment to think it through and come up with examples of situations where my theory doesn't hold up. Here you go.

All poor Americans call into one of the following 3 categories:

1) Lazy
2) Content
3) Children & Physically or Mentally handicapped

I support public assistance for category #3, but none for the other 2 categories.

As for your question of "white privilege" I have heard of it, but I don't see it as a relevent in today's "post-civil rights" society. Racism certainly still exists on both sides, however as a society we have made every effort (and more) to ensure that racism doesn't inhibit opportunity.
Haha. This reminds me of the girl in my wife's anthropology class that wrote the reason Mexico is a poor country is because the people just don't work as hard. If they worked harder, they would be a rich country. Needless to say, she failed.
I don't know much abour Mexico, but I assume that natural resources is a large factor right?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Nov 5 2008, 02:14 PM Post #21
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aaronk2727
Nov 5 2008, 02:10 PM
dreachon
Nov 5 2008, 02:09 PM
aaronk2727
Nov 5 2008, 01:59 PM
tyler8186
Nov 5 2008, 12:38 PM
aaronk2727
Nov 4 2008, 10:09 PM

I am not rich, but my prosperity will endure any President because I am not afraid of hard work, and I ask for nothing from anyone. If I want it, I find a way to get it, and I find a way to keep it. I am the lower end of the people to whom many of these voters seek a piece of prosperity from, and believe me when I tell you, as you go up the ladder the grip get's tighter.

What is this supposed to mean? That all the poor and lower middle class have to do to succeed is work as hard as you? The poor are afraid of hard work? This Bootstraps way of thinking is old, outdated, and ignorant. Have you heard of 'white priviledge'?

Let me know if I misjudged your statement.
I'm not sure if you misjudged my statement, but I have posted my philosophy regarding the poor on here before, but it has been 6 months or so, so here it is again. Initially you will want to contradict my claim and fill your response with insulting rhetoric, but before you do that, please take a moment to think it through and come up with examples of situations where my theory doesn't hold up. Here you go.

All poor Americans call into one of the following 3 categories:

1) Lazy
2) Content
3) Children & Physically or Mentally handicapped

I support public assistance for category #3, but none for the other 2 categories.

As for your question of "white privilege" I have heard of it, but I don't see it as a relevent in today's "post-civil rights" society. Racism certainly still exists on both sides, however as a society we have made every effort (and more) to ensure that racism doesn't inhibit opportunity.
Haha. This reminds me of the girl in my wife's anthropology class that wrote the reason Mexico is a poor country is because the people just don't work as hard. If they worked harder, they would be a rich country. Needless to say, she failed.
I don't know much abour Mexico, but I assume that natural resources is a large factor right?
Well obviously there are a lot of factors. Their oil production is subsidized (gallon of gas for 70 cents anyone?) and completely controlled by the government. Natural resources, corruption, and uncontrolled growth both among people and contruction have really devalued just about everything. Calderon has reinforced the police to try and stop the drug trafficking and it has resulted in over 3000 deaths in 2 years. Just yesterday the Interior Minister's plane crashed (about 5 minutes from my apt no less) and many people are saying it was on purpose because he was one of the ones involved in apprehending several major drug lords. The country has a long way to go.
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hoosierinhogville Nov 5 2008, 02:20 PM Post #22
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aaronk2727
Nov 5 2008, 01:59 PM
All poor Americans call into one of the following 3 categories:

1) Lazy
2) Content
3) Children & Physically or Mentally handicapped

One bit of advice Aaron. If you are going to run for office, I would suggest you not say this in a public setting. This is the kinds of stuff that make people think conservatives are out of touch. I personally know many hard working, relatively intelligent people who are poor. They fall in none of the 3 categories you have listed. As UB so astutely observed, not everyone can be rich, and there is nothing wrong with that. But it is a fallacy to think that there are only 3 reasons why people are poor and those 3 reasons are the ones you listed.
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Mr Gray Nov 5 2008, 02:29 PM Post #23
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Nov 5 2008, 02:20 PM
aaronk2727
Nov 5 2008, 01:59 PM
All poor Americans call into one of the following 3 categories:

1) Lazy
2) Content
3) Children & Physically or Mentally handicapped

One bit of advice Aaron. If you are going to run for office, I would suggest you not say this in a public setting. This is the kinds of stuff that make people think conservatives are out of touch. I personally know many hard working, relatively intelligent people who are poor.
then they are content. I'm not saying everyone can be rich, but they don't have to be poor. I know some very good people who work hard at whay they do, but are poor. They choose not to get a 2nd job because they are content. I stand behind this belief until proven otherwise, which I am will to do......just hasn't happened yet.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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hoosierinhogville Nov 5 2008, 02:32 PM Post #24
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Nov 5 2008, 02:09 PM
I am running for office in 2010, and am hoping that our GOP revamp has taken place well before that. I have also made it very clear that I, along with many others, will be leaving the party before then if we are not satisfied with the direction we are going. There are some VERY VERY highly respected and powerful individuals who are involved with this group as well, so I believe we will get things done, but if not we are also prepared with an exit plan B. So to summarize, I am never one to just bitch and moan while doing nothing.....sitting on the sidelines is not my style, but thanks for the pep talk anyway.
So what direction would you like to see the party head then Aaron? You don't have to give a lot of specifics, if you feel it would compromise you. I am just curious if this is something I would support.

I have given some serious thought to getting involved here in AR. That would be a pretty big undertaking since the Democratic Party runs pretty much everything here. It is so bad that ithe senator and congressman for my district were both up for re-election this year, and the Repub party didn't even bother to prop up a straw man against them. The Green Party fielded a candidate in both races, and I ended up voting for them because I knew they wouldn't win, but I didn't want to feel and personal culpability in handing the Dems complete control of Congress.

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hoosierinhogville Nov 5 2008, 02:34 PM Post #25
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They choose not to get a 2nd job because they are content.
Well if that is you definition of content, then yeah I guess, but most people wouldn't see it like that, so my advice to you remains the same.
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dreachon Nov 5 2008, 02:39 PM Post #26
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Nov 5 2008, 02:29 PM
They choose not to get a 2nd job because they are content.
Well if that is you definition of content, then yeah I guess, but most people wouldn't see it like that, so my advice to you remains the same.
I think Hog is on the money here. If a person chooses to spend more time with their family and kids instead of getting that 2nd job, does that mean they are content? Who would criticize that person's decision to be closer to their family? What about people who have 2 jobs, but also have parents still alive who they need to take care of as well? Suddenly a family of four can turn into 2 hard working parents supporting 6 people, or 8. Your reasons for why everyone is poor are hugely oversimplistic.
Edited by dreachon, Nov 5 2008, 02:40 PM.
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eelbor Nov 5 2008, 03:04 PM Post #27
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I am running for office in 2010, and am hoping that our GOP revamp has taken place well before that. I have also made it very clear that I, along with many others, will be leaving the party before then if we are not satisfied with the direction we are going. There are some VERY VERY highly respected and powerful individuals who are involved with this group as well, so I believe we will get things done, but if not we are also prepared with an exit plan B. So to summarize, I am never one to just bitch and moan while doing nothing.....sitting on the sidelines is not my style, but thanks for the pep talk anyway.
So what direction would you like to see the party head then Aaron? You don't have to give a lot of specifics, if you feel it would compromise you. I am just curious if this is something I would support.

I have given some serious thought to getting involved here in AR. That would be a pretty big undertaking since the Democratic Party runs pretty much everything here. It is so bad that ithe senator and congressman for my district were both up for re-election this year, and the Repub party didn't even bother to prop up a straw man against them. The Green Party fielded a candidate in both races, and I ended up voting for them because I knew they wouldn't win, but I didn't want to feel and personal culpability in handing the Dems complete control of Congress.

Hey Hog,
If you ever do run for office, and if by some stroke of luck or genius you obtain a House or Senate seat, will you let me come by and get my picture taken sitting at your desk?

Please?
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


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Mr Gray Nov 5 2008, 03:12 PM Post #28
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So what direction would you like to see the party head then Aaron? You don't have to give a lot of specifics, if you feel it would compromise you. I am just curious if this is something I would support.
Well, 1st the party is so focused on their database and turning out their voters that they fail to spend much effort actually convincing new voters. That's probably not the best way to put it, but it is hard to explain. We had hundreds and hundreds of volunteers just in my area, and when Sarah Palin came to down, that quadrupled overnight. We used that powerful resource to make phone calls to known replublicans to confirm that they were going to vote for _________, ____________, __________, depending on what candidate you were working for, what area you were calling...etc etc. Then on election day we use that same list and make sure that all of those people in fact do turn out to vote.

Now, capturing your base, ensuring that the show up at the polls, and knowing where you are strong is extremely important, and I don't want to neglect that AT ALL. But no one was doing anything to attract new voters, go into "unpopular" areas, and generally discuss issues. Sure, we had some rallys, some debates, and of course countless TV ads, but those things are so "canned" and are often completely counter-balanced by your opponent that the affect becomes null. Once again, it is important to nulify your opponent, but what the dems have been doing is going the extra step.

The dems were literally "taking it to the street". They weren't afraid to go into known conservative areas and make their case. Many of the folks in those areas feel somewhat neglected by the Republican Party, then when someone from the democratic party shows up at their home, at their kids school, at their American Legion....etc etc etc, and talked directly to them, there is a tendency to feel "warm & fuzzy" about that candidate and change your allegience. Then you also have to factor in that many of these "conservative" people are having kids and grandkids who are now of voting age, and aren't afraid to differ from their family if they have had personal contact with a democrat who seemed sincere and convincing to them. So if we round up our base, but then give away their children, what have we accomplished?

I believe that economic conservative philosophy benefits people from all income ranges, because it strengthens the economy as a whole. I think the philosophy and mechanics behind that need to be simplified into the form of a consise, short, sweet, message that talks directly to the poor and middle class, instead of just the upper-middle and rich. Now, you also have to walk the conservative walk, which isn't happening with all republicans right now either, but that is more a product of candidates instead of strategy. That is the next step...we need to really evaluate our candidates, and not just throw our support behind someone because of what they can offer us (which is what is happening with a lot of county GOP offices). If you think they are a bad candidate, say so, explain to them why they would be bad for the Republican party and do not throw your support behind them.

I just had a personal 1 on 1 conversation with congressman Mark Sauder for about a half hour, which was great. He informed me that Republicans have basically lost every congressional district that contains a city with more than 250,000 people, except Omaha (if I remember right). The Republicans are becoming a rural-suburban party, because all they worry about is tracking their voter base instead of evaluating and discussing the advantages of coservatism for those from all economic circumstances. Mr. Sauder feels that we will always lose some of the minority vote and the urban vote due to social issues such as civil rights & immigration, but there are also many many from that voting block that vote on economy, and no one is doing anything to educate them other than the democratic entitlement philosophy.

Lastly, we need to "grow up" and discover technology as tools to campaigning. The GOP got schooled on the internet in terms of financing, and informing voters. We can use technology to make the volunteers job MUCH MUCH more efficient, freeing up more time to use volunteers for other roles, such as the ones discussed above. We can also use the internet & text messaging...etc etc to obviously generate funds and spread the consevative word. We are going to discuss some special projects with the IU B-school soon, because these kids have a grip on that world much stronger than any current Republican leader could dream of. Now that their ego has been deflated to a reasonable level, it won't be as easy to trip over it on the way to success.

Summary of my blabbing:

1) Focus on spreading conservative values to all voters
2) Keep your base
3) Turn out the vote
4) Utilize technology
5) Create simple talking points for each voter segment, then turn out a force to install them
6) Throw support behind the best candidates for the party, not just the best candidate for the local GOP chair.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Nov 5 2008, 03:15 PM Post #29
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Nov 5 2008, 02:39 PM
hoosierinhogville
Nov 5 2008, 02:34 PM
aaronk2727
Nov 5 2008, 02:29 PM
They choose not to get a 2nd job because they are content.
Well if that is you definition of content, then yeah I guess, but most people wouldn't see it like that, so my advice to you remains the same.
I think Hog is on the money here. If a person chooses to spend more time with their family and kids instead of getting that 2nd job, does that mean they are content? Who would criticize that person's decision to be closer to their family? What about people who have 2 jobs, but also have parents still alive who they need to take care of as well? Suddenly a family of four can turn into 2 hard working parents supporting 6 people, or 8. Your reasons for why everyone is poor are hugely oversimplistic.
dreach, I'm not criticizing the poor. If they choose spending time with their family over increasing their wealth, I think that is a GREAT decision. It doesn't change my statement that they are content to be poor....you are looking at it as a negative comment, but being content and happy in whatsoever state you are in is a virtue. I only criticize the poor who have their hand in my pocket and the pockets of other hard working Americans who have chosen another route. That's all.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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hoosierinhogville Nov 5 2008, 03:15 PM Post #30
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Nov 5 2008, 03:04 PM
Hey Hog,
If you ever do run for office, and if by some stroke of luck or genius you obtain a House or Senate seat, will you let me come by and get my picture taken sitting at your desk?

Please?
That's funny. Actually I don't know that I would ever run for office. It's not my style. I see myself as more of a David axlerod or Karl Rove than a GWB or Obama.

My wife's uncle ran in the primary this year for state rep. He lost, and said that he probably won't run again, but I have talked to him some and suggested he run again and he is thinking about it. He is a real fiscal and social conservative, so he is someone i could support. I thnk he has given some thought to running for state senator during the next cycle. If he does, I will volunteer my services to do whatever he needs and get my start there.
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