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Voter turnout
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 5 2008, 11:03 AM (942 Views)
dreachon Nov 5 2008, 09:41 PM Post #31
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I disagree that aaron can do both things at once. This wasn't an attack, it ws an honest question. Are you telling me that if you were running for office you would only encourage people to vote for you if they knew your AND your opponents stances on everything?

Face it, that's not possible. I understand that you try to educate as many voters as possible. That's something we both said in the other thread. But in reality, you just can't do it. There are going to be people that vote who don't know all the issues. And if you encourage people to go out an vote, then you are encouraging some of these people as well. I think it is an impossibility to "get out the vote" and at the same time not encourage ignorant voters to go vote for you.
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Mr Gray Nov 5 2008, 09:46 PM Post #32
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dreachon
Nov 5 2008, 09:41 PM
I disagree that aaron can do both things at once. This wasn't an attack, it ws an honest question. Are you telling me that if you were running for office you would only encourage people to vote for you if they knew your AND your opponents stances on everything?

Face it, that's not possible. I understand that you try to educate as many voters as possible. That's something we both said in the other thread. But in reality, you just can't do it. There are going to be people that vote who don't know all the issues. And if you encourage people to go out an vote, then you are encouraging some of these people as well. I think it is an impossibility to "get out the vote" and at the same time not encourage ignorant voters to go vote for you.
you can't avoid some ignorant voting, but I can absolutely tell you that if I was running I would not encourage it. I would do my best to educate the voters and my team of volunteers would do their best to get those same folks to the polling locations. If that means I lose the election than so be it...I would rather stick to my principles and lose than abandon them an win. This is where I believe politics in America should go, and the group that i am involved with is working very hard right now to make that happen in the future.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Nov 5 2008, 09:48 PM Post #33
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aaronk2727
Nov 5 2008, 09:46 PM
dreachon
Nov 5 2008, 09:41 PM
I disagree that aaron can do both things at once. This wasn't an attack, it ws an honest question. Are you telling me that if you were running for office you would only encourage people to vote for you if they knew your AND your opponents stances on everything?

Face it, that's not possible. I understand that you try to educate as many voters as possible. That's something we both said in the other thread. But in reality, you just can't do it. There are going to be people that vote who don't know all the issues. And if you encourage people to go out an vote, then you are encouraging some of these people as well. I think it is an impossibility to "get out the vote" and at the same time not encourage ignorant voters to go vote for you.
you can't avoid some ignorant voting, but I can absolutely tell you that if I was running I would not encourage it. I would do my best to educate the voters and my team of volunteers would do their best to get those same folks to the polling locations. If that means I lose the election than so be it...I would rather stick to my principles and lose than abandon them an win. This is where I believe politics in America should go, and the group that i am involved with is working very hard right now to make that happen in the future.
Now THAT'S the answer I was looking for.
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brumdog44 Nov 5 2008, 10:43 PM Post #34
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Nov 5 2008, 09:26 PM
Wow. Did anyone else know that when you call Aaron out he throws a temper tantrum?
I recall aaron's 'watch and learn' post when told that McCain was going to get killed in the election.

Tell me when to start watching...is it going to happen soon?
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brumdog44 Nov 5 2008, 10:48 PM Post #35
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dreachon
Nov 5 2008, 09:48 PM
aaronk2727
Nov 5 2008, 09:46 PM
dreachon
Nov 5 2008, 09:41 PM
I disagree that aaron can do both things at once. This wasn't an attack, it ws an honest question. Are you telling me that if you were running for office you would only encourage people to vote for you if they knew your AND your opponents stances on everything?

Face it, that's not possible. I understand that you try to educate as many voters as possible. That's something we both said in the other thread. But in reality, you just can't do it. There are going to be people that vote who don't know all the issues. And if you encourage people to go out an vote, then you are encouraging some of these people as well. I think it is an impossibility to "get out the vote" and at the same time not encourage ignorant voters to go vote for you.
you can't avoid some ignorant voting, but I can absolutely tell you that if I was running I would not encourage it. I would do my best to educate the voters and my team of volunteers would do their best to get those same folks to the polling locations. If that means I lose the election than so be it...I would rather stick to my principles and lose than abandon them an win. This is where I believe politics in America should go, and the group that i am involved with is working very hard right now to make that happen in the future.
Now THAT'S the answer I was looking for.
It's also complete and utter bullshit.

You don't have to search long to find all of the posts that he made that were 0% about the issues and 100% about flinging crap trying to make it stick to Obama.
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Mr Gray Nov 6 2008, 07:43 AM Post #36
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dreachon
Nov 5 2008, 09:48 PM
aaronk2727
Nov 5 2008, 09:46 PM
dreachon
Nov 5 2008, 09:41 PM
I disagree that aaron can do both things at once. This wasn't an attack, it ws an honest question. Are you telling me that if you were running for office you would only encourage people to vote for you if they knew your AND your opponents stances on everything?

Face it, that's not possible. I understand that you try to educate as many voters as possible. That's something we both said in the other thread. But in reality, you just can't do it. There are going to be people that vote who don't know all the issues. And if you encourage people to go out an vote, then you are encouraging some of these people as well. I think it is an impossibility to "get out the vote" and at the same time not encourage ignorant voters to go vote for you.
you can't avoid some ignorant voting, but I can absolutely tell you that if I was running I would not encourage it. I would do my best to educate the voters and my team of volunteers would do their best to get those same folks to the polling locations. If that means I lose the election than so be it...I would rather stick to my principles and lose than abandon them an win. This is where I believe politics in America should go, and the group that i am involved with is working very hard right now to make that happen in the future.
Now THAT'S the answer I was looking for.
dreach, some may say that my statement is bullshit because I have posted many negative things about Obama in the past. I am not in favor of "smear" ads, but I do think that part of informing the voters is making sure that they understand the truthful negatives of your opponent so that their decision can be made. I would expect my opponent to do the same to me. I don't consider it "smear tactics" as long as it is relevent and truthful.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Old_School Nov 6 2008, 01:03 PM Post #37
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....I'm still waiting on somebody to explain to me how the ignorant masses voting is a good thing...
The poster formerly known as mybracketownsyou.
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boilergrad01 Nov 6 2008, 01:22 PM Post #38
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Nov 6 2008, 01:03 PM
....I'm still waiting on somebody to explain to me how the ignorant masses voting is a good thing...
Old School,

people voting is not the problem. People not taking the right of voting serious is. The MSM is partly responsible. They are driven by ratings not integrity. They do nothing to educate the voter. Apathy is also a huge problem people do not take is seriously enough. That is also to be blamed on the parties.

Ron Paul is about 50% on point. I think he and Dennis the menace are in agreement on about 25% issues. The media undercut them in the primaries and truly disrespected them. They represent alot of people. Ron Paul represented around 7% of the republican party possibly more. McCain payed the same price in the General Election. it is a huge task to really research the issues and get past all the personal attack bs.

Issues after the soundbites become pretty boring and people do not have the attention span for the details. Voting is a right. Rights require responsiblity. That is the difference. When voters are irresponsible you get people like Bush and now Obama.
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Cattman96 Nov 6 2008, 01:34 PM Post #39
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Nov 6 2008, 01:22 PM
Old_School
Nov 6 2008, 01:03 PM
....I'm still waiting on somebody to explain to me how the ignorant masses voting is a good thing...
Old School,

people voting is not the problem. People not taking the right of voting serious is. The MSM is partly responsible. They are driven by ratings not integrity. They do nothing to educate the voter. Apathy is also a huge problem people do not take is seriously enough. That is also to be blamed on the parties.

Ron Paul is about 50% on point. I think he and Dennis the menace are in agreement on about 25% issues. The media undercut them in the primaries and truly disrespected them. They represent alot of people. Ron Paul represented around 7% of the republican party possibly more. McCain payed the same price in the General Election. it is a huge task to really research the issues and get past all the personal attack bs.

Issues after the soundbites become pretty boring and people do not have the attention span for the details. Voting is a right. Rights require responsiblity. That is the difference. When voters are irresponsible you get people like Bush and now Obama.
I long for Tim Russert. There is no neutral main street media anymore, and it seems as though most people will not take the time to watch both NBC and Fox News to get differing views. As well as no 3rd party views whatsoever. The problem is you get people like Chris Matthews humping his Obama doll while talking about him . I fell into this category myself until this year. I mainly watched my Fox News and took it as neutral because I agreed. It's to bad more people aren't able to come on sites like this where you have opposing views daily and can hash it out a bit. Never thought in my life I would vote for a 3rd party candidate and have this year. Mainly because of what I have learned right here.
Edited by Cattman96, Nov 6 2008, 01:42 PM.
The nine scariest words in the english language. " I'm with the government and I'm here to help" - Ronald Reagan
"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin
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HoosierLars Nov 6 2008, 01:47 PM Post #40
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Nov 6 2008, 01:03 PM
....I'm still waiting on somebody to explain to me how the ignorant masses voting is a good thing...
If they would vot for your guy, you would think it's a good thing.
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Old_School Nov 6 2008, 02:01 PM Post #41
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Nov 6 2008, 01:03 PM
....I'm still waiting on somebody to explain to me how the ignorant masses voting is a good thing...
If they would vot for your guy, you would think it's a good thing.
False. I dealt with a fair share of ignorant Ron Paul "supporters" who only supported him because it was a cool thing to do. I grilled these people. It ripped my heart out to meet a proclaimed RP supporter only to find out upon talking to them that they had no idea what they were talking about.

When I went door to door in the middle of snowstorms in Michigan right before their primary last December/January, I carried around a briefcase full of information. I printed off numerous copies of various articles Ron Paul had written about certain issues and when people showed interest I loaded them up with reading material. My main goal was to educate. Getting people out to vote was only secondary. Remember, the entire campaign was about the message, not the man, something McCain and Obama supporters wouldn't understand as these men lack bedrock principles.
The poster formerly known as mybracketownsyou.
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BoilerNLA Nov 6 2008, 02:14 PM Post #42
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Old_School
Nov 6 2008, 02:01 PM
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Nov 6 2008, 01:47 PM
Old_School
Nov 6 2008, 01:03 PM
....I'm still waiting on somebody to explain to me how the ignorant masses voting is a good thing...
If they would vot for your guy, you would think it's a good thing.
False. I dealt with a fair share of ignorant Ron Paul "supporters" who only supported him because it was a cool thing to do. I grilled these people. It ripped my heart out to meet a proclaimed RP supporter only to find out upon talking to them that they had no idea what they were talking about.

When I went door to door in the middle of snowstorms in Michigan right before their primary last December/January, I carried around a briefcase full of information. I printed off numerous copies of various articles Ron Paul had written about certain issues and when people showed interest I loaded them up with reading material. My main goal was to educate. Getting people out to vote was only secondary. Remember, the entire campaign was about the message, not the man, something McCain and Obama supporters wouldn't understand as these men lack bedrock principles.
I still don't understand what you are proposing, "Old Wise One"

Which Americans should be denied the right to vote? I'm tired of your "ignorant masses" rants.
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frankwhite6 Nov 6 2008, 02:17 PM Post #43
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BoilerNLA
Nov 6 2008, 02:14 PM
Old_School
Nov 6 2008, 02:01 PM
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Nov 6 2008, 01:47 PM
Old_School
Nov 6 2008, 01:03 PM
....I'm still waiting on somebody to explain to me how the ignorant masses voting is a good thing...
If they would vot for your guy, you would think it's a good thing.
False. I dealt with a fair share of ignorant Ron Paul "supporters" who only supported him because it was a cool thing to do. I grilled these people. It ripped my heart out to meet a proclaimed RP supporter only to find out upon talking to them that they had no idea what they were talking about.

When I went door to door in the middle of snowstorms in Michigan right before their primary last December/January, I carried around a briefcase full of information. I printed off numerous copies of various articles Ron Paul had written about certain issues and when people showed interest I loaded them up with reading material. My main goal was to educate. Getting people out to vote was only secondary. Remember, the entire campaign was about the message, not the man, something McCain and Obama supporters wouldn't understand as these men lack bedrock principles.
I still don't understand what you are proposing, "Old Wise One"

Which Americans should be denied the right to vote? I'm tired of your "ignorant masses" rants.
Seriously? Surely you're not.
Edited by frankwhite6, Nov 6 2008, 02:21 PM.
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boilergrad01 Nov 6 2008, 02:19 PM Post #44
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Old_School
Nov 6 2008, 02:01 PM
HoosierLars
Nov 6 2008, 01:47 PM
Old_School
Nov 6 2008, 01:03 PM
....I'm still waiting on somebody to explain to me how the ignorant masses voting is a good thing...
If they would vot for your guy, you would think it's a good thing.
False. I dealt with a fair share of ignorant Ron Paul "supporters" who only supported him because it was a cool thing to do. I grilled these people. It ripped my heart out to meet a proclaimed RP supporter only to find out upon talking to them that they had no idea what they were talking about.

When I went door to door in the middle of snowstorms in Michigan right before their primary last December/January, I carried around a briefcase full of information. I printed off numerous copies of various articles Ron Paul had written about certain issues and when people showed interest I loaded them up with reading material. My main goal was to educate. Getting people out to vote was only secondary. Remember, the entire campaign was about the message, not the man, something McCain and Obama supporters wouldn't understand as these men lack bedrock principles.
Old school,

I tolerate alot of your shit because you seem passionate. Sen McCain is a man of principles. His policies might differ from yours be he is a man of ideals. You can bash his ideas all day long do not dare attack him as a person.
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dreachon Nov 6 2008, 02:33 PM Post #45
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Nov 6 2008, 01:03 PM
....I'm still waiting on somebody to explain to me how the ignorant masses voting is a good thing...
We've all said on here at some point that voters should learn about their candidates before voting. But where does the responsibility of the candidate lie?

Let's say the voter saw 5 McCain TV ads and 5 Obama ads. The 5 McCain ads were all about how Obama is friends with Ayers and we don't know enough about him to elect him President. And the 5 Obama ads were all about McCain agreeing with Bush all the time and how we can't afford 4 more years of dead policies.

Who is at fault in this situation? The voter or the candidates? Clearly the voter is not off the hook if they don't make the effort to learn more about the candidates, but I believe the candidates hold a huge amount of responsibility in CREATING ignorant voters.

The fact is EVERY voter is exposed to SOMETHING from each candidate. If that something is non-informative, it's not the voters fault. The cadidates purposely make it difficult to learn about their policies by being extremely vague when they actually do talk policies.

You keep saying we shouldn't encourage ignorant voters, but we need to stop encouraging candidates to be non-informative before we can even hope to end up with non-ignorant voters.
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