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| Creation and the Age of the Universe | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 11 2008, 10:47 PM (298 Views) | |
| dreachon | Nov 11 2008, 10:47 PM Post #1 |
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Creative Title Here
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I saw a talk last night by an Orthodox Jew who is a mathemetician and was a crypotologist for the Pentagon. The talk was super interesting and took a different approach to Creationism and Science. Usually, religion looks for science which helps to prove that the Torah/Bible is correct. The talk was actually about how the Torah helps to prove that modern science is correct, namely the age of the universe, age of the planet, how we have 150,000 year old human fossils when Adam was the first man, and how this interpretation can only be made by looking at the original Hebrew text because there are some mistranslations in the Bible. Anyways, I didn't want to go into specifics because I'm sure it's not everyone's cup of tea. If you guys want me to get a little more in depth on the theory I will. If not, no prob. If you would like to know more, I can just PM/email you some of the stuff. Just let me know. |
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| Mr Gray | Nov 11 2008, 11:17 PM Post #2 |
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I'm interested....you can post it on this thread |
![]() The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism. | |
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| BTown11 | Nov 11 2008, 11:50 PM Post #3 |
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Mer
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cool, i for one believe that science and religion can work well together. to me, the bible is a good guideline for morality, while i entrust a science textbook to tell me how old the earth is. |
| Death to Signatures. | |
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| Cattman96 | Nov 12 2008, 09:18 AM Post #4 |
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Yeah definitely post what you can. I would be interested. |
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The nine scariest words in the english language. " I'm with the government and I'm here to help" - Ronald Reagan "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin | |
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| boilergrad01 | Nov 12 2008, 10:05 AM Post #5 |
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Working on the last 5
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Dreach drop some knowledge on me |
| Nothing beats an Astronaut | |
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| goosta | Nov 12 2008, 10:17 AM Post #6 |
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Go Hoosiers!
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I am also interested, post away. |
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| dreachon | Nov 12 2008, 03:49 PM Post #7 |
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Creative Title Here
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Ok! Here we go then. I'll just try and post the most important things from the lecture and then of course I'll answer all your questions that come up. First we have to start with the scientific theories that we are holding as "true". The first being that the Universe is around 10-20 billions years old, it is an open Universe (meaning the Universe will not collapse and form another Big Bang, it will keep expanding), and the theory that prior to the Big Bang the entire Universe consisted of a massive Black Hole. Ok, So we know that the gravity of a black hole is so strong that time literally slows down as you approcach the Event Horizon (point of no return). This is the Theory of Relativity. And that as you go into a Black Hole, time literally stops. There is no time. Also, it is impossible to escape a Black Hole once you pass the Event Horizon because it would take an infinite amount of energy, which obviously doesn't exist. So prior to the Big Bang we have a massive Black Hole. According to the Torah, G-d "created" the Universe. The word "create" is important because in Hebrew the word create means to make something from absolutely nothing. Otherwise you use the word "make". So that fact that the Torah says G-d "created" the Universe means he literally created it from nothing. In this case nothing being a Black Hole. G-d created light on the 2nd day by seperating the light from the darkness (literally pulling light out of the Black Hole). Since we know that time slows as gravity increases, the reverse should hold true. To pull something out of a Black Hole, you'd be experiencing reverse gravity, and time would be going faster. The Torah says that G-d created everything in 7 days. In Hebrew the word for day is "Yom". Yom literally translates to "a period of light and darkness." When the Bible was translated, "Yom" was translated as "day" and took to mean the period of time it takes the Earth to rotate one turn on its axis. But in reality, a Yom could be 24 hours, or a billion years. We don't know how long the first 6 days were. The Torah says we start counting the age of the Universe from day 6. So really, the age of the Universe is 5769 years old + 6 Yom. The first 6 days of creation could have lasted for billions of years. Ok, so how does the Torah actually support some modern day science? The Torah says that Adam was the first man, but has been interpreted in later writing to determine that the text of Torah indicates there were 964 generations of humans before Adam (or something like that). It also says that Man lived an average of about 150 years. 964*150 = about 145,000 years, or right in the middle of where science estimates the oldest humans lived (between 100-200 thousand years ago. And there have been several Jewish thinkers that have calculated this and the age of the Universe as about 13 billions years old, and they did it hundreds of years ago. So how was Adam the first man, then? There were many generations of Homosapiens before Adam, but G-d said Adam was the first man because he was the first that G-d gave a soul to. Previous Man didn't have a soul and so they were considered "animals". It says G-d created man in his image, not necessarily meaning a nose, ears, and eyes. It is referring to spiritual image, or a soul, since this is what seperated Adam from other humans. Rabbis have also interpreted from the Torah that there were "destruction of worlds" during the 6 days, and this is meant to account for a bunch of other stuff, including Dinosaurs. Ok, so that's the gist. I'm sure there might be some questions and please feel free to ask them. Also, here is the link to his lecture. You can download for $3.50. It's the second one down. Whether you believe in this or not, I think it is important to note that religion and science don't HAVE to be pitted against each other. It's possible they could even help each other out. http://www.aishaudio.com/ssi/aish/speaker/mr-harold-gans.php |
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| Cattman96 | Nov 12 2008, 04:07 PM Post #8 |
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Thanks for taking the time to post that. It actually makes alot of sense. I have conversations with my wife in refrencing time and the Bible. When the Bible mentions Abraham and him being hundreds of years old, I say it is relative to time keeping during that period. ANy way thanks again and I am going to pay the 3.50 for the download and check it out more in depth. If you don't mind I would like to Pm you sometime, I have questions about the Jewish faith, with me being Catholic and no Jewish denomination for 100 miles, I am pretty limited. |
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The nine scariest words in the english language. " I'm with the government and I'm here to help" - Ronald Reagan "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin | |
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| dçamden03 | Nov 12 2008, 04:30 PM Post #9 |
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Where are you from Cattman? |
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“He’s always been a guy — maybe to a fault — he would always try to do what I said. That seems like something simple in coaching, but those are the guys I hang my hat on. We’ve had some guys in our program, we had a couple guys that felt I had a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. And they were right — I do have a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. I like guys that go to class, that are academic All-Americans, that come early, that stay late, that love the game of basketball. I am biased towards those guys. And I’m biased towards Rob Hummel. But I’m also biased towards their habits, their work ethic, and how they carry themselves." "I’d take him to the ends of the earth — I’d want him playing for me.” - Bo Ryan on Robbie Hummel
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| Cattman96 | Nov 12 2008, 04:34 PM Post #10 |
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The big city of Vincennes Indiana. |
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The nine scariest words in the english language. " I'm with the government and I'm here to help" - Ronald Reagan "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin | |
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| dçamden03 | Nov 12 2008, 04:39 PM Post #11 |
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Did you attend a Catholic HS? |
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“He’s always been a guy — maybe to a fault — he would always try to do what I said. That seems like something simple in coaching, but those are the guys I hang my hat on. We’ve had some guys in our program, we had a couple guys that felt I had a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. And they were right — I do have a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. I like guys that go to class, that are academic All-Americans, that come early, that stay late, that love the game of basketball. I am biased towards those guys. And I’m biased towards Rob Hummel. But I’m also biased towards their habits, their work ethic, and how they carry themselves." "I’d take him to the ends of the earth — I’d want him playing for me.” - Bo Ryan on Robbie Hummel
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| Cattman96 | Nov 12 2008, 04:45 PM Post #12 |
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Senior
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I attended Catholic school from K-8 and then transferred to public school. |
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The nine scariest words in the english language. " I'm with the government and I'm here to help" - Ronald Reagan "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin | |
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| dçamden03 | Nov 12 2008, 04:48 PM Post #13 |
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I was in Catholic school for all 12. I was just wondering, if you were from Indy, I'm sure we'd know some of the same people. Edited by dçamden03, Nov 12 2008, 04:49 PM.
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“He’s always been a guy — maybe to a fault — he would always try to do what I said. That seems like something simple in coaching, but those are the guys I hang my hat on. We’ve had some guys in our program, we had a couple guys that felt I had a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. And they were right — I do have a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. I like guys that go to class, that are academic All-Americans, that come early, that stay late, that love the game of basketball. I am biased towards those guys. And I’m biased towards Rob Hummel. But I’m also biased towards their habits, their work ethic, and how they carry themselves." "I’d take him to the ends of the earth — I’d want him playing for me.” - Bo Ryan on Robbie Hummel
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| Cattman96 | Nov 12 2008, 04:58 PM Post #14 |
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Oh okay, I was wondering where you were going with this. I was going to stop at my social security #...... |
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The nine scariest words in the english language. " I'm with the government and I'm here to help" - Ronald Reagan "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin | |
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| dçamden03 | Nov 12 2008, 05:15 PM Post #15 |
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I only need the last 4 digits. |
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“He’s always been a guy — maybe to a fault — he would always try to do what I said. That seems like something simple in coaching, but those are the guys I hang my hat on. We’ve had some guys in our program, we had a couple guys that felt I had a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. And they were right — I do have a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. I like guys that go to class, that are academic All-Americans, that come early, that stay late, that love the game of basketball. I am biased towards those guys. And I’m biased towards Rob Hummel. But I’m also biased towards their habits, their work ethic, and how they carry themselves." "I’d take him to the ends of the earth — I’d want him playing for me.” - Bo Ryan on Robbie Hummel
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