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some straight talk; about racism
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 14 2008, 06:03 AM (1,086 Views)
hoosierinhogville Nov 15 2008, 11:16 AM Post #31
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troubleatiu
Nov 15 2008, 06:44 AM
anyway, maybe youll tackle that which nla keeps avoiding.
Hell i'll tackle it.
First off, just because Obama was elected doesn't mean racism is dead. Certainly it doesn't exist to the degree that it did before, but it isn't dead. I sit next to a perfect example of that every day at work.
As to the NAACP and other such organiztions, there was a time when these organizations were probably necessary, and actually served a higher purpose. Nowdays, I think they are uneccessary, and for the most part counter-productive, and we would probably make more strides towards real equility if these organizations didn't exist. As Brum stated, because the exist to serve the interest of one racial group over another they are inherently racist, and that creates friction between the white and black communities, which as I said, is counter-productive.
Lastly, I will say this. Racism in any form, is wrong; be it white against black, black against white, black against latino; but I think white males whining about "reverse-racism" and other such things is laughable. How many non-white congressman are there? How many non-white senator's? How many non-white CEO's of Fortune 500 companies? How many non-white admirals or generals? WHite males control the vast majority of power, influence, and wealth in this country. They are their own special interest group. So, excuse me if i don't feel to sorry for the poor, pitiful white male.
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rikker68 Nov 15 2008, 01:07 PM Post #32
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Thanks for the article Trouble. I agree with the majority of the article and I believe because of PC most people won't say that they agree with it.
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Cattman96 Nov 15 2008, 01:16 PM Post #33
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Nov 15 2008, 01:07 PM
Thanks for the article Trouble. I agree with the majority of the article and I believe because of PC most people won't say that they agree with it.
Ditto

In the case of institutional racism, certain racial groups may be denied rights or benefits, or ***get preferential treatment. ***
The nine scariest words in the english language. " I'm with the government and I'm here to help" - Ronald Reagan
"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin
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troubleatiu Nov 15 2008, 06:51 PM Post #34
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"How many non-white congressman are there? How many non-white senator's? How many non-white CEO's of Fortune 500 companies? How many non-white admirals or generals? WHite males control the vast majority of power, influence, and wealth in this country. They are their own special interest group. So, excuse me if i don't feel to sorry for the poor, pitiful white male."-hoosierinhogville

some of what you say is true. whites continue to dominate every facit of our lives. but, we are the majority (for now) and tradition is in our favor. but we are essentially on our own. we can not be "proud of OUR heritage" without being called racist. well jeewiz fucking christ, if youve effectively controlled a country for over 200 years SHOULDNT you be proud of that?
if your race is responsible for creating the best form of government EVER thought of, SHOULDNT you be proud? seriously (and again un-politically correct) when this country was founded blacks were merely bushwackers in africa. when christianity was forming our "moral compass" the jews were still scattered to the four corners of the earth. moslem expansion into europe was being held in check by (gasp) CHRISTIANITY!!!
and yet, PC tells us that all these minorities need to be "protected" at the expense of the very same people who FORGED THE GODDAMNED COUNTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE.
abolish these groups. THEY alone are what gives rise to white supremacist groups. and after all, even as race is pot luck at birth, why should i apologize to ANYBODY for being born white?
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yawnzzz Nov 15 2008, 10:30 PM Post #35
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troubleatiu
Nov 15 2008, 06:51 PM
"How many non-white congressman are there? How many non-white senator's? How many non-white CEO's of Fortune 500 companies? How many non-white admirals or generals? WHite males control the vast majority of power, influence, and wealth in this country. They are their own special interest group. So, excuse me if i don't feel to sorry for the poor, pitiful white male."-hoosierinhogville

some of what you say is true. whites continue to dominate every facit of our lives. but, we are the majority (for now) and tradition is in our favor. but we are essentially on our own. we can not be "proud of OUR heritage" without being called racist. well jeewiz fucking christ, if youve effectively controlled a country for over 200 years SHOULDNT you be proud of that?
if your race is responsible for creating the best form of government EVER thought of, SHOULDNT you be proud? seriously (and again un-politically correct) when this country was founded blacks were merely bushwackers in africa. when christianity was forming our "moral compass" the jews were still scattered to the four corners of the earth. moslem expansion into europe was being held in check by (gasp) CHRISTIANITY!!!
and yet, PC tells us that all these minorities need to be "protected" at the expense of the very same people who FORGED THE GODDAMNED COUNTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE.
abolish these groups. THEY alone are what gives rise to white supremacist groups. and after all, even as race is pot luck at birth, why should i apologize to ANYBODY for being born white?
Eh.... there's no reason to be 'proud' of race. That's the essentials of racism. I didn't enslave people nor did I write the constitution. Neither one has anything to do with anyone living. Be proud of what 'you' did and leave the rest for history books.
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md11flyer Nov 16 2008, 01:24 PM Post #36
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I received this just the other day and was going to post it myself. Thanks for posting it Trouble and I agree with you, it got exactly the reaction I thought it would here. Whether you think the guy is a racist or not, (I don't believe he is a racist at heart, just fed up like a few million other Americans), the fact that over 90% blacks voted for the black candidate tells me which group is the racist group. There was not a lot of thought going into 90% of that 90%, it was strictly race. Racism is not dead in America, I am sorry to say it is alive and well. I am just not convinced that it is white America that is the problem here.
Edited by md11flyer, Nov 16 2008, 01:37 PM.
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troubleatiu Nov 16 2008, 02:45 PM Post #37
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Hoosier_Faithful_07
Nov 15 2008, 10:30 PM
troubleatiu
Nov 15 2008, 06:51 PM
"How many non-white congressman are there? How many non-white senator's? How many non-white CEO's of Fortune 500 companies? How many non-white admirals or generals? WHite males control the vast majority of power, influence, and wealth in this country. They are their own special interest group. So, excuse me if i don't feel to sorry for the poor, pitiful white male."-hoosierinhogville

some of what you say is true. whites continue to dominate every facit of our lives. but, we are the majority (for now) and tradition is in our favor. but we are essentially on our own. we can not be "proud of OUR heritage" without being called racist. well jeewiz fucking christ, if youve effectively controlled a country for over 200 years SHOULDNT you be proud of that?
if your race is responsible for creating the best form of government EVER thought of, SHOULDNT you be proud? seriously (and again un-politically correct) when this country was founded blacks were merely bushwackers in africa. when christianity was forming our "moral compass" the jews were still scattered to the four corners of the earth. moslem expansion into europe was being held in check by (gasp) CHRISTIANITY!!!
and yet, PC tells us that all these minorities need to be "protected" at the expense of the very same people who FORGED THE GODDAMNED COUNTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE.
abolish these groups. THEY alone are what gives rise to white supremacist groups. and after all, even as race is pot luck at birth, why should i apologize to ANYBODY for being born white?
Eh.... there's no reason to be 'proud' of race. That's the essentials of racism. I didn't enslave people nor did I write the constitution. Neither one has anything to do with anyone living. Be proud of what 'you' did and leave the rest for history books.
i put "proud of our heritage" in quotes because its not a term white people use. minority groups on the other hand seem to say it alot.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think."- Adolph Hitler
"Terrorists don't want your freedoms--they want your life. It's dictators and tyrants who want your freedoms."-author unidentified
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Mr Gray Nov 16 2008, 03:54 PM Post #38
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hoosierinhogville
Nov 15 2008, 11:16 AM
WHite males control the vast majority of power, influence, and wealth in this country. They are their own special interest group. So, excuse me if i don't feel to sorry for the poor, pitiful white male.
Hog...out of respect for you, I would like to offer the opportunity for you to retract or amend this statement as perhaps you were having a bad day or didn't quite think it through.
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Mr Gray Nov 16 2008, 04:11 PM Post #39
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Trouble. I held off for a while from this thread to take it all in. Here are some thoughts.



Section 1981 of Title 42 (Equal Rights Under the Law)
(a) Statement of equal rights
All persons within the jurisdiction of the United States shall have the same right in every State and Territory to make and enforce contracts, to sue, be parties, give evidence, and to the full and equal benefit of all laws and proceedings for the security of persons and property as is enjoyed by white citizens, and shall be subject to like punishment, pains, penalties, taxes, licenses, and exactions of every kind, and to no other.
(b) “Make and enforce contracts” defined
For purposes of this section, the term “make and enforce contracts” includes the making, performance, modification, and termination of contracts, and the enjoyment of all benefits, privileges, terms, and conditions of the contractual relationship.
(c) Protection against impairment
The rights protected by this section are protected against impairment by nongovernmental discrimination and impairment under color of State law.

This particular law seems to me that it should prohibit financial aid that is restricted to just one particular race, as that is a contractual relationship.


The Civil Rights Act of 1964
Discrimination based on "race, color, religion, or national origin" in public establishments that had a connection to interstate commerce or that was supported by the state is prohibited. See 42 U.S.C. § 2000a. Public establishments include places of public accommodation (e.g., hotels, motels, trailer parks), restaurants, gas stations, bars, taverns, and places of entertainment in general. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 and subsequent legislation also declared a strong legislative policy against discrimination in public schools and colleges which aided in desegregation. Title VI of the Civil Rights Act prohibits discrimination in federally funded programs. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act prohibits employment discrimination where the employer is engaged in interstate commerce.

This would imply to me that any organization can exist for any lawful purpose, including the advancement of any particular race, however they may not restrict membership based on race, which I don't believe those that you mentioned do (I know that whites can join the NAACP)

In general, I wish that no organizations existed that were in place to discriminate in any way based on any race. Whether "legal" or not, I think they are destructive the race they represent, and to the country. That doesn't mean that I would abolish them, but if I cared enough, I could start an organization to contradict their work, spread it throughout the country, and put them out of business.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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boilerup86 Nov 16 2008, 04:15 PM Post #40
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troubleatiu
Nov 15 2008, 06:51 PM
some of what you say is true. whites continue to dominate every facit of our lives.

This is indeed true.

Quote:
 
we can not be "proud of OUR heritage" without being called racist. well jeewiz fucking christ, if youve effectively controlled a country for over 200 years SHOULDNT you be proud of that?


White communists controlled Russia for over 100 years, in your world is that something they are allowed to be proud of?

Quote:
 
but, we are the majority (for now) and tradition is in our favor. but we are essentially on our own.


Just because it is tradition doesn't necessarily makes it right. This goes for both "sides".

Quote:
 
if your race is responsible for creating the best form of government EVER thought of, SHOULDNT you be proud?


The fact of the matter is that argument right there is counter productive to your point. By even dividing up the world into "races" and comparing accomplishments is counter-intuitive to the idea that racism is dead. Racism is dead when these accomplishments are not benchmarks of superiority and something to flaunt.

This goes for both "sides".

Quote:
 
seriously (and again un-politically correct) when this country was founded blacks were merely bushwackers in africa.


It could be argued that Anglo's played a key role in keeping things like that as well. Our "moral comapss" was telling us that these people while human were not the same quality of people as whites. They were to be our servants and we were to be their masters because that was the role "given" to them by god. Europeans for the better part of 300+ ravaged the coastal areas and tinkered with the political systems in their country. It's no wonder this kind of instability has continued, up until recent history it was all they had known. Its amazing since the anglo presence has gone down parts of Africa have started to modernize and move forward (albeit slowly). Yes, I realize there is still quite a bit of instability there but wounds heal with time.

Quote:
 
when christianity was forming our "moral compass" the jews were still scattered to the four corners of the earth.


You do realize the "moral compass" is founded on the 10 commandments which were given to Moses a Jew. These are old testament ideas that are incorporated in to the Jewish religion.

Quote:
 
moslem expansion into europe was being held in check by (gasp) CHRISTIANITY!!!


Muslim expansion was kept in check by more than just Christianity, it was held in check more so by superior military technology and even then they managed to take over much of Spain as I recall. As far as success in the Middle East, Christianity brought us the Crusades, all of which were utter failures with the exception of the first one. This even included a Children's crusade which sent two ships of children to their deaths and another boat into slavery. That was a definitely a good idea.

After all, you'd think we'd all be able to get along since Jews, Christians, and Muslims are all children of the book and worship the same God. But, for some reason people want to get stuck up on who's messiah is better, whether it be Moses, Jesus, or Mohammad.

Quote:
 
and yet, PC tells us that all these minorities need to be "protected" at the expense of the very same people who FORGED THE GODDAMNED COUNTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE.


The country was forged by individuals who we are told believed in freedom of expression and religion. If various groups are being out rightly oppressed they cannot freely practice. If people could be tolerant, these groups wouldn't need protection.

You can be a "white supremacist" without directly interfering with another groups rights of expression and visa verse.

Quote:
 
abolish these groups. THEY alone are what gives rise to white supremacist groups.


There were white supremacy groups before these institutions were founded and there will be white supremacy groups long after all these groups fall apart. This will continue to happen until the world is arbitrarily divided up by race. This goes for both "sides" as well.

Also, keep in mind two wrongs not necessarily make a right. It is how these groups on both sides conduct themselves that is important. They both could have very positive effects or incredibly negative effects.

Edited by boilerup86, Nov 16 2008, 04:22 PM.
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hoosierinhogville Nov 16 2008, 07:14 PM Post #41
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Nov 16 2008, 03:54 PM
Hog...out of respect for you, I would like to offer the opportunity for you to retract or amend this statement as perhaps you were having a bad day or didn't quite think it through.
Well gee that sure is generous of you massa.
Why would I need to? Did I say something that is inaccurate?
How about this - I don't really feel sorry for any one group. We all control our own destiny. That's why I don't really pay too much attention to what the NAACP, La Raza, or whiny white guys have to say.
Edited by hoosierinhogville, Nov 16 2008, 07:15 PM.
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yawnzzz Nov 16 2008, 09:26 PM Post #42
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Nov 16 2008, 04:15 PM
troubleatiu
Nov 15 2008, 06:51 PM
some of what you say is true. whites continue to dominate every facit of our lives.

This is indeed true.

Quote:
 
we can not be "proud of OUR heritage" without being called racist. well jeewiz fucking christ, if youve effectively controlled a country for over 200 years SHOULDNT you be proud of that?


White communists controlled Russia for over 100 years, in your world is that something they are allowed to be proud of?

Quote:
 
but, we are the majority (for now) and tradition is in our favor. but we are essentially on our own.


Just because it is tradition doesn't necessarily makes it right. This goes for both "sides".

Quote:
 
if your race is responsible for creating the best form of government EVER thought of, SHOULDNT you be proud?


The fact of the matter is that argument right there is counter productive to your point. By even dividing up the world into "races" and comparing accomplishments is counter-intuitive to the idea that racism is dead. Racism is dead when these accomplishments are not benchmarks of superiority and something to flaunt.

This goes for both "sides".

Quote:
 
seriously (and again un-politically correct) when this country was founded blacks were merely bushwackers in africa.


It could be argued that Anglo's played a key role in keeping things like that as well. Our "moral comapss" was telling us that these people while human were not the same quality of people as whites. They were to be our servants and we were to be their masters because that was the role "given" to them by god. Europeans for the better part of 300+ ravaged the coastal areas and tinkered with the political systems in their country. It's no wonder this kind of instability has continued, up until recent history it was all they had known. Its amazing since the anglo presence has gone down parts of Africa have started to modernize and move forward (albeit slowly). Yes, I realize there is still quite a bit of instability there but wounds heal with time.

Quote:
 
when christianity was forming our "moral compass" the jews were still scattered to the four corners of the earth.


You do realize the "moral compass" is founded on the 10 commandments which were given to Moses a Jew. These are old testament ideas that are incorporated in to the Jewish religion.

Quote:
 
moslem expansion into europe was being held in check by (gasp) CHRISTIANITY!!!


Muslim expansion was kept in check by more than just Christianity, it was held in check more so by superior military technology and even then they managed to take over much of Spain as I recall. As far as success in the Middle East, Christianity brought us the Crusades, all of which were utter failures with the exception of the first one. This even included a Children's crusade which sent two ships of children to their deaths and another boat into slavery. That was a definitely a good idea.

After all, you'd think we'd all be able to get along since Jews, Christians, and Muslims are all children of the book and worship the same God. But, for some reason people want to get stuck up on who's messiah is better, whether it be Moses, Jesus, or Mohammad.

Quote:
 
and yet, PC tells us that all these minorities need to be "protected" at the expense of the very same people who FORGED THE GODDAMNED COUNTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE.


The country was forged by individuals who we are told believed in freedom of expression and religion. If various groups are being out rightly oppressed they cannot freely practice. If people could be tolerant, these groups wouldn't need protection.

You can be a "white supremacist" without directly interfering with another groups rights of expression and visa verse.

Quote:
 
abolish these groups. THEY alone are what gives rise to white supremacist groups.


There were white supremacy groups before these institutions were founded and there will be white supremacy groups long after all these groups fall apart. This will continue to happen until the world is arbitrarily divided up by race. This goes for both "sides" as well.

Also, keep in mind two wrongs not necessarily make a right. It is how these groups on both sides conduct themselves that is important. They both could have very positive effects or incredibly negative effects.

Very well put.
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Unbiased Nov 17 2008, 02:14 PM Post #43
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pretty funny article. many valid, if not 'PC', points made.


when will the cable channel, WET, be launched?
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eelbor Nov 17 2008, 03:30 PM Post #44
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Unbiased
Nov 17 2008, 02:14 PM
pretty funny article. many valid, if not 'PC', points made.


when will the cable channel, WET, be launched?
Isn't that the Women's network? Or is that Lifetime...television for women. I think WET has a better ring to it!
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


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boilergrad01 Nov 17 2008, 03:35 PM Post #45
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Nov 17 2008, 03:30 PM
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Nov 17 2008, 02:14 PM
pretty funny article. many valid, if not 'PC', points made.


when will the cable channel, WET, be launched?
Isn't that the Women's network? Or is that Lifetime...television for women. I think WET has a better ring to it!
Good Eelbor, Not sure how it helps me in politics but a great name for a soft core porn network. I think that is a great Direct TV channel idea lets make it happen. I will to the hit and watch all the films and we will let Brum do the interviews. I will also entertain the female stars and NLA can entertain the male stars. Kick the network off in a Vegas strip club. Tell your wife it is business. Lars can attend as the DD if he returns all the ladies to my hotel

Business plan done UB can sell the stock
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