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some straight talk; about racism
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 14 2008, 06:03 AM (1,079 Views)
Cattman96 Nov 20 2008, 11:39 AM Post #121
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dreachon
Nov 20 2008, 10:51 AM
aaronk2727
Nov 20 2008, 10:29 AM
Cattman96
Nov 20 2008, 08:53 AM
HoosierLars
Nov 20 2008, 01:50 AM
dreachon
Nov 19 2008, 09:41 PM
you're right that there have been huge changes for the better in the last 40 years.
I would argue that liberal government spending programs have done serious damage to black families, and now we have large communities that only know welfare, drugs, gangs, teenage pregnancy, and single mothers. It's a crying shame.
Surely no one can deny that..
drach might deny that...he seems to think that those programs are necessary to level the playing field that was previously unbalanced due to slavery & discrimination. My guess is Sirbri feels the same way, but probably even stronger.
Note, I'm not saying they don't have an opportunity. I'm saying they have FEWER opportunities. As for your specific questions, I don't live in Gary or Ft Wayne so I don't what school books they use. I do know there are non-profit organization that exist for the purpose of helping to get computers into classrooms for schools that can't afford them. I used a computer in high school over 10 years ago. To think there are schools out there that still don't have them (or have a really crappy version) is sad. So whatever the answers to your specific questions are, I'm sure the schools in Gary are not on a level playing field with the schools in other parts of the state.

As for Government programs. We all know that the creation of "Projects" was quite possible the worst thing possible for slums. So no, I am not in favor of all of the Gov programs to help out poor areas.

But you guys are talking about abolishing something like the United Negro College Fund. That's a private organization. They can do whatever they want. Just like Augusta National can not let women in. You guys are always preaching privatization, no government, bla bla bla. Yet when there is a private organization doing exactly what it's supposed to, you want to abolish it. Because it helps black kids? I don't know. I don't see anyone on here complaining about the Italian American scholarship fund.

https://www.niaf.org/scholarships/index.asp
I never said anything about abolishing private organizations. That is more of a double standard issue. In the case of women not getting in to be members of Augusta National, I say start your own club. But in the case of a United Negro College fund, Which is racisit by definition,(which I believe is fine because this is America) you have a huge double standard. I can't say go out and start a United White College Fund, because the outrage would be huge. By the way which I would NEVER do.
The nine scariest words in the english language. " I'm with the government and I'm here to help" - Ronald Reagan
"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin
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yawnzzz Nov 20 2008, 01:34 PM Post #122
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Cattman96
Nov 20 2008, 11:39 AM
dreachon
Nov 20 2008, 10:51 AM
aaronk2727
Nov 20 2008, 10:29 AM
Cattman96
Nov 20 2008, 08:53 AM
HoosierLars
Nov 20 2008, 01:50 AM
dreachon
Nov 19 2008, 09:41 PM
you're right that there have been huge changes for the better in the last 40 years.
I would argue that liberal government spending programs have done serious damage to black families, and now we have large communities that only know welfare, drugs, gangs, teenage pregnancy, and single mothers. It's a crying shame.
Surely no one can deny that..
drach might deny that...he seems to think that those programs are necessary to level the playing field that was previously unbalanced due to slavery & discrimination. My guess is Sirbri feels the same way, but probably even stronger.
Note, I'm not saying they don't have an opportunity. I'm saying they have FEWER opportunities. As for your specific questions, I don't live in Gary or Ft Wayne so I don't what school books they use. I do know there are non-profit organization that exist for the purpose of helping to get computers into classrooms for schools that can't afford them. I used a computer in high school over 10 years ago. To think there are schools out there that still don't have them (or have a really crappy version) is sad. So whatever the answers to your specific questions are, I'm sure the schools in Gary are not on a level playing field with the schools in other parts of the state.

As for Government programs. We all know that the creation of "Projects" was quite possible the worst thing possible for slums. So no, I am not in favor of all of the Gov programs to help out poor areas.

But you guys are talking about abolishing something like the United Negro College Fund. That's a private organization. They can do whatever they want. Just like Augusta National can not let women in. You guys are always preaching privatization, no government, bla bla bla. Yet when there is a private organization doing exactly what it's supposed to, you want to abolish it. Because it helps black kids? I don't know. I don't see anyone on here complaining about the Italian American scholarship fund.

https://www.niaf.org/scholarships/index.asp
I never said anything about abolishing private organizations. That is more of a double standard issue. In the case of women not getting in to be members of Augusta National, I say start your own club. But in the case of a United Negro College fund, Which is racisit by definition,(which I believe is fine because this is America) you have a huge double standard. I can't say go out and start a United White College Fund, because the outrage would be huge. By the way which I would NEVER do.
Isn't that what the Italian one would be?
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Cattman96 Nov 20 2008, 03:47 PM Post #123
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445
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Hoosier_Faithful_07
Nov 20 2008, 01:34 PM
Cattman96
Nov 20 2008, 11:39 AM
dreachon
Nov 20 2008, 10:51 AM
aaronk2727
Nov 20 2008, 10:29 AM
Cattman96
Nov 20 2008, 08:53 AM
HoosierLars
Nov 20 2008, 01:50 AM
dreachon
Nov 19 2008, 09:41 PM
you're right that there have been huge changes for the better in the last 40 years.
I would argue that liberal government spending programs have done serious damage to black families, and now we have large communities that only know welfare, drugs, gangs, teenage pregnancy, and single mothers. It's a crying shame.
Surely no one can deny that..
drach might deny that...he seems to think that those programs are necessary to level the playing field that was previously unbalanced due to slavery & discrimination. My guess is Sirbri feels the same way, but probably even stronger.
Note, I'm not saying they don't have an opportunity. I'm saying they have FEWER opportunities. As for your specific questions, I don't live in Gary or Ft Wayne so I don't what school books they use. I do know there are non-profit organization that exist for the purpose of helping to get computers into classrooms for schools that can't afford them. I used a computer in high school over 10 years ago. To think there are schools out there that still don't have them (or have a really crappy version) is sad. So whatever the answers to your specific questions are, I'm sure the schools in Gary are not on a level playing field with the schools in other parts of the state.

As for Government programs. We all know that the creation of "Projects" was quite possible the worst thing possible for slums. So no, I am not in favor of all of the Gov programs to help out poor areas.

But you guys are talking about abolishing something like the United Negro College Fund. That's a private organization. They can do whatever they want. Just like Augusta National can not let women in. You guys are always preaching privatization, no government, bla bla bla. Yet when there is a private organization doing exactly what it's supposed to, you want to abolish it. Because it helps black kids? I don't know. I don't see anyone on here complaining about the Italian American scholarship fund.

https://www.niaf.org/scholarships/index.asp
I never said anything about abolishing private organizations. That is more of a double standard issue. In the case of women not getting in to be members of Augusta National, I say start your own club. But in the case of a United Negro College fund, Which is racisit by definition,(which I believe is fine because this is America) you have a huge double standard. I can't say go out and start a United White College Fund, because the outrage would be huge. By the way which I would NEVER do.
Isn't that what the Italian one would be?
No it doesn't just throw a blanket over all whites....By the way good point though. It is tough to argue with.
The nine scariest words in the english language. " I'm with the government and I'm here to help" - Ronald Reagan
"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin
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boilergrad01 Nov 20 2008, 04:25 PM Post #124
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Asians

They often come to America very poor but value a close family life and education. That is one minority group that has been very effective at coming to America and rising above the poverty level.

Dreach,

If we are talking as mature adults about the black community in a socialogical manner. Then your point about slavery might hold some merit. The biggest problem in the Black community and in the lower class white community is lack of a father presence. Socialoically kids seem to emulate their parents. Poor girl get knocked up at a young age and keeps the kid father leaves and the mother struggles to raise the child. The child grows up and especially young girls get knocked up young and the cycle continues. Teenage pregancy in a middle class family with two parents the parents assit in raising the child it has a greater chance of success.

Blacks or African Americans take your label choice as slaves the males where used for breeding and seldom where around to parent and strong family ties never formed. The women had multiple childre by many fathers and raised the child and families where often seperated. if your argument is that slaves never established strong nuclear families and that still affects the Black community today then maybe you have a legitimate issue. That is different from what you have been saying
Nothing beats an Astronaut
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Mr Gray Nov 20 2008, 04:31 PM Post #125
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Note, I'm not saying they don't have an opportunity. I'm saying they have FEWER opportunities.
So let me make sure we have come to an agreement or not. You agree that all able bodied Americans have an opportunity to succeed? You agree that your economic and/or geographic situation may make your road to success more difficult, but not the color of your skin?

Quote:
 
But you guys are talking about abolishing something like the United Negro College Fund. That's a private organization. They can do whatever they want.
All of my companies are private organization as well, yet I am absolutely prohibited by LAW from discriminating based on race (and the government actually makes me post big stupid signs up on the walls to prove it). So....say that again.....private organization can "do whatever they want".....really?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Nov 20 2008, 04:32 PM Post #126
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boilergrad01
Nov 20 2008, 04:25 PM
Asians

They often come to America very poor but value a close family life and education. That is one minority group that has been very effective at coming to America and rising above the poverty level.

Dreach,

If we are talking as mature adults about the black community in a socialogical manner. Then your point about slavery might hold some merit. The biggest problem in the Black community and in the lower class white community is lack of a father presence. Socialoically kids seem to emulate their parents. Poor girl get knocked up at a young age and keeps the kid father leaves and the mother struggles to raise the child. The child grows up and especially young girls get knocked up young and the cycle continues. Teenage pregancy in a middle class family with two parents the parents assit in raising the child it has a greater chance of success.

Blacks or African Americans take your label choice as slaves the males where used for breeding and seldom where around to parent and strong family ties never formed. The women had multiple childre by many fathers and raised the child and families where often seperated. if your argument is that slaves never established strong nuclear families and that still affects the Black community today then maybe you have a legitimate issue. That is different from what you have been saying
the problem isn't slavery.....the problem is the people that keep thinking slavery is the problem.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Nov 20 2008, 06:14 PM Post #127
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So let me make sure we have come to an agreement or not. You agree that all able bodied Americans have an opportunity to succeed? You agree that your economic and/or geographic situation may make your road to success more difficult, but not the color of your skin?


Yes.

Quote:
 
All of my companies are private organization as well, yet I am absolutely prohibited by LAW from discriminating based on race (and the government actually makes me post big stupid signs up on the walls to prove it). So....say that again.....private organization can "do whatever they want".....really?


Maybe I should have been more specific. We're talking about a scholarship fund. Not the illegal discrimination against a race in the workplace. When you donate to IU and you designate your gift to Athletics, or the scholarships for the business school, or first generations student scholarships, or you create a scholarship for single mothers who are also working...is that discrimination? Of course not. Just the same as it is not discrimination if someone supports the United Negro College Fund and designates their gift to an African-American with GPA over 3.0 or something like that.
Edited by dreachon, Nov 20 2008, 06:15 PM.
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