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Will Obama's Stimulus Plan Work?
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 3 2009, 02:58 PM (245 Views)
boilergrad01 Feb 4 2009, 11:16 PM Post #16
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Feb 4 2009, 11:08 PM
boilergrad01
Feb 4 2009, 10:55 PM
Trouble,

This past weekend the iraqi's ran their own elections. They had less attacks than the last one in Dec 2005. They still have training wheels on but only one. How long did we stay in Germany after WW II or Japan. It has only been 6 years since the conflict began. The new gen there Gen O said he has ordered troop cuts he is just awaiting on Obama to accept them.
Fuck you're clueless.
I am clueless because you have friends over there that tell you what is going on???/?

You know more about Iraq than I do. I guess someone wrote a book and used you in it. I bow to you on Iraq......
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Old_School Feb 4 2009, 11:29 PM Post #17
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I bow to you on Iraq......
Good, it's about fucking time.
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troubleatiu Feb 5 2009, 08:44 AM Post #18
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THE RON PAUL SOLUTION:

"Here's what we HAVE to do to solve the problem," says Paul: "1) Let banks and companies fail if they cannot survive on their own 2) Stop inflating asset prices with government purchases and bailouts 3) End the Trillion dollar annual spending to maintain the US Global Empire 4) Bring all our troops and assets home from around the world 5) End the fractional Federal Reserve banking system that caused the hyper asset inflation through pyramid debt 6) Have the US Treasury take charge of our monetary system and create a non debt based system.

Former Asst. Sec. of the Treasury Paul Craig Roberts (one of the few who has bucked the system) agrees with this in general when he writes, "The trillions of dollars in credit default swaps (CDS) should be declared null and void. These 'swaps' are simply bets that financial instruments and companies will fail, and the bulk of the bets are made by people and institutions that do not hold the financial instruments or shares in the companies... There is no reason under the sun for taxpayers to bail out gamblers...
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"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."--Henry Kissinger
"What luck for rulers that men do not think."- Adolph Hitler
"Terrorists don't want your freedoms--they want your life. It's dictators and tyrants who want your freedoms."-author unidentified
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BoilerUpAT Feb 5 2009, 08:47 AM Post #19
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troubleatiu
Feb 5 2009, 08:44 AM
THE RON PAUL SOLUTION:

"Here's what we HAVE to do to solve the problem," says Paul: "1) Let banks and companies fail if they cannot survive on their own 2) Stop inflating asset prices with government purchases and bailouts 3) End the Trillion dollar annual spending to maintain the US Global Empire 4) Bring all our troops and assets home from around the world 5) End the fractional Federal Reserve banking system that caused the hyper asset inflation through pyramid debt 6) Have the US Treasury take charge of our monetary system and create a non debt based system.

Former Asst. Sec. of the Treasury Paul Craig Roberts (one of the few who has bucked the system) agrees with this in general when he writes, "The trillions of dollars in credit default swaps (CDS) should be declared null and void. These 'swaps' are simply bets that financial instruments and companies will fail, and the bulk of the bets are made by people and institutions that do not hold the financial instruments or shares in the companies... There is no reason under the sun for taxpayers to bail out gamblers...
............and hence why I am a registered Libertarian and vote. Period.
Close by the Wabash, In famed Hoosier land, Stands old Purdue, Serene and Grand, Cherished in Memory, By all her sons and daughters true, Fair Alma Mater, All Hail Purdue
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Mr Gray Feb 5 2009, 08:56 AM Post #20
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Feb 5 2009, 08:44 AM
THE RON PAUL SOLUTION:

"Here's what we HAVE to do to solve the problem," says Paul: "1) Let banks and companies fail if they cannot survive on their own 2) Stop inflating asset prices with government purchases and bailouts 3) End the Trillion dollar annual spending to maintain the US Global Empire 4) Bring all our troops and assets home from around the world 5) End the fractional Federal Reserve banking system that caused the hyper asset inflation through pyramid debt 6) Have the US Treasury take charge of our monetary system and create a non debt based system.

Former Asst. Sec. of the Treasury Paul Craig Roberts (one of the few who has bucked the system) agrees with this in general when he writes, "The trillions of dollars in credit default swaps (CDS) should be declared null and void. These 'swaps' are simply bets that financial instruments and companies will fail, and the bulk of the bets are made by people and institutions that do not hold the financial instruments or shares in the companies... There is no reason under the sun for taxpayers to bail out gamblers...
I agree with Paul, however here is a great question for you trouble, and everyone else. If/when we bring all the troups home, what do we do with them? Remember, we have 8.2% unemployment and rising.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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troubleatiu Feb 5 2009, 09:23 AM Post #21
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Feb 5 2009, 08:56 AM
troubleatiu
Feb 5 2009, 08:44 AM
THE RON PAUL SOLUTION:

"Here's what we HAVE to do to solve the problem," says Paul: "1) Let banks and companies fail if they cannot survive on their own 2) Stop inflating asset prices with government purchases and bailouts 3) End the Trillion dollar annual spending to maintain the US Global Empire 4) Bring all our troops and assets home from around the world 5) End the fractional Federal Reserve banking system that caused the hyper asset inflation through pyramid debt 6) Have the US Treasury take charge of our monetary system and create a non debt based system.

Former Asst. Sec. of the Treasury Paul Craig Roberts (one of the few who has bucked the system) agrees with this in general when he writes, "The trillions of dollars in credit default swaps (CDS) should be declared null and void. These 'swaps' are simply bets that financial instruments and companies will fail, and the bulk of the bets are made by people and institutions that do not hold the financial instruments or shares in the companies... There is no reason under the sun for taxpayers to bail out gamblers...
I agree with Paul, however here is a great question for you trouble, and everyone else. If/when we bring all the troups home, what do we do with them? Remember, we have 8.2% unemployment and rising.
first of all its never going to happen. keep in mind when paul speaks of bringing troops home, its only part of the overall situation. he also wants a sound money (non debt based) and jobs brought back to america which weve discussed here before. if the irs was abolished, say the fairtax enacted, and the congress/treasury take over money responsibility from the fed the economy would grow at a rate that would outpace the current unemployment rate. not only would we have jobs, returning vets would also. you cant just bring them all home tomorrow and leave the current economic/money system in place. you have to look at everything.
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"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."--Henry Kissinger
"What luck for rulers that men do not think."- Adolph Hitler
"Terrorists don't want your freedoms--they want your life. It's dictators and tyrants who want your freedoms."-author unidentified
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BoilerUpAT Feb 5 2009, 09:59 AM Post #22
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Close by the Wabash, In famed Hoosier land, Stands old Purdue, Serene and Grand, Cherished in Memory, By all her sons and daughters true, Fair Alma Mater, All Hail Purdue
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HoosierLars Feb 5 2009, 12:18 PM Post #23
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Old_School Feb 5 2009, 02:45 PM Post #24
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Feb 5 2009, 08:56 AM
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Feb 5 2009, 08:44 AM
THE RON PAUL SOLUTION:

"Here's what we HAVE to do to solve the problem," says Paul: "1) Let banks and companies fail if they cannot survive on their own 2) Stop inflating asset prices with government purchases and bailouts 3) End the Trillion dollar annual spending to maintain the US Global Empire 4) Bring all our troops and assets home from around the world 5) End the fractional Federal Reserve banking system that caused the hyper asset inflation through pyramid debt 6) Have the US Treasury take charge of our monetary system and create a non debt based system.

Former Asst. Sec. of the Treasury Paul Craig Roberts (one of the few who has bucked the system) agrees with this in general when he writes, "The trillions of dollars in credit default swaps (CDS) should be declared null and void. These 'swaps' are simply bets that financial instruments and companies will fail, and the bulk of the bets are made by people and institutions that do not hold the financial instruments or shares in the companies... There is no reason under the sun for taxpayers to bail out gamblers...
I agree with Paul, however here is a great question for you trouble, and everyone else. If/when we bring all the troups home, what do we do with them? Remember, we have 8.2% unemployment and rising.
Bringing the troops home will coincide with bringing back the money used to deploy and support them. Of course none of these solutions operate in a vacuum, the whole regulation state and rampant corporatism need to be curbed in the process.
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Mr Gray Feb 5 2009, 02:54 PM Post #25
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Feb 5 2009, 02:45 PM
aaronk2727
Feb 5 2009, 08:56 AM
troubleatiu
Feb 5 2009, 08:44 AM
THE RON PAUL SOLUTION:

"Here's what we HAVE to do to solve the problem," says Paul: "1) Let banks and companies fail if they cannot survive on their own 2) Stop inflating asset prices with government purchases and bailouts 3) End the Trillion dollar annual spending to maintain the US Global Empire 4) Bring all our troops and assets home from around the world 5) End the fractional Federal Reserve banking system that caused the hyper asset inflation through pyramid debt 6) Have the US Treasury take charge of our monetary system and create a non debt based system.

Former Asst. Sec. of the Treasury Paul Craig Roberts (one of the few who has bucked the system) agrees with this in general when he writes, "The trillions of dollars in credit default swaps (CDS) should be declared null and void. These 'swaps' are simply bets that financial instruments and companies will fail, and the bulk of the bets are made by people and institutions that do not hold the financial instruments or shares in the companies... There is no reason under the sun for taxpayers to bail out gamblers...
I agree with Paul, however here is a great question for you trouble, and everyone else. If/when we bring all the troups home, what do we do with them? Remember, we have 8.2% unemployment and rising.
Bringing the troops home will coincide with bringing back the money used to deploy and support them. Of course none of these solutions operate in a vacuum, the whole regulation state and rampant corporatism need to be curbed in the process.
OldSchool, and large large portion of the money that is spend on the war, is going to the actual troops that we would be brining home, therefore our federal savings would be at the result of thousands of out of work, broke veterans, wouldn't it?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Old_School Feb 5 2009, 03:02 PM Post #26
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aaronk2727
Feb 5 2009, 02:54 PM
Old_School
Feb 5 2009, 02:45 PM
aaronk2727
Feb 5 2009, 08:56 AM
troubleatiu
Feb 5 2009, 08:44 AM
THE RON PAUL SOLUTION:

"Here's what we HAVE to do to solve the problem," says Paul: "1) Let banks and companies fail if they cannot survive on their own 2) Stop inflating asset prices with government purchases and bailouts 3) End the Trillion dollar annual spending to maintain the US Global Empire 4) Bring all our troops and assets home from around the world 5) End the fractional Federal Reserve banking system that caused the hyper asset inflation through pyramid debt 6) Have the US Treasury take charge of our monetary system and create a non debt based system.

Former Asst. Sec. of the Treasury Paul Craig Roberts (one of the few who has bucked the system) agrees with this in general when he writes, "The trillions of dollars in credit default swaps (CDS) should be declared null and void. These 'swaps' are simply bets that financial instruments and companies will fail, and the bulk of the bets are made by people and institutions that do not hold the financial instruments or shares in the companies... There is no reason under the sun for taxpayers to bail out gamblers...
I agree with Paul, however here is a great question for you trouble, and everyone else. If/when we bring all the troups home, what do we do with them? Remember, we have 8.2% unemployment and rising.
Bringing the troops home will coincide with bringing back the money used to deploy and support them. Of course none of these solutions operate in a vacuum, the whole regulation state and rampant corporatism need to be curbed in the process.
OldSchool, and large large portion of the money that is spend on the war, is going to the actual troops that we would be brining home, therefore our federal savings would be at the result of thousands of out of work, broke veterans, wouldn't it?
Uhh...Been hittin' the bottle early today, eh? The structure of your comment sounded very BG-esque, haha.

Anyway, I assume that what you're trying to say is that the government will be forced to provide benefits for all these newly minted veterans. I say so be it, in the long run it'll hurt infinitely less to do this than to keep them deployed, inciting hatred and resentment in the process. Besides, the logical conclusion of your train of thought is that since we have high unemployment now, we may as well enlist everybody into the army so there's no unemployment. Problem solved, right?
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Mr Gray Feb 5 2009, 04:05 PM Post #27
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Feb 5 2009, 03:02 PM
aaronk2727
Feb 5 2009, 02:54 PM
Old_School
Feb 5 2009, 02:45 PM
aaronk2727
Feb 5 2009, 08:56 AM
troubleatiu
Feb 5 2009, 08:44 AM
THE RON PAUL SOLUTION:

"Here's what we HAVE to do to solve the problem," says Paul: "1) Let banks and companies fail if they cannot survive on their own 2) Stop inflating asset prices with government purchases and bailouts 3) End the Trillion dollar annual spending to maintain the US Global Empire 4) Bring all our troops and assets home from around the world 5) End the fractional Federal Reserve banking system that caused the hyper asset inflation through pyramid debt 6) Have the US Treasury take charge of our monetary system and create a non debt based system.

Former Asst. Sec. of the Treasury Paul Craig Roberts (one of the few who has bucked the system) agrees with this in general when he writes, "The trillions of dollars in credit default swaps (CDS) should be declared null and void. These 'swaps' are simply bets that financial instruments and companies will fail, and the bulk of the bets are made by people and institutions that do not hold the financial instruments or shares in the companies... There is no reason under the sun for taxpayers to bail out gamblers...
I agree with Paul, however here is a great question for you trouble, and everyone else. If/when we bring all the troups home, what do we do with them? Remember, we have 8.2% unemployment and rising.
Bringing the troops home will coincide with bringing back the money used to deploy and support them. Of course none of these solutions operate in a vacuum, the whole regulation state and rampant corporatism need to be curbed in the process.
OldSchool, and large large portion of the money that is spend on the war, is going to the actual troops that we would be brining home, therefore our federal savings would be at the result of thousands of out of work, broke veterans, wouldn't it?
Uhh...Been hittin' the bottle early today, eh? The structure of your comment sounded very BG-esque, haha.

Anyway, I assume that what you're trying to say is that the government will be forced to provide benefits for all these newly minted veterans. I say so be it, in the long run it'll hurt infinitely less to do this than to keep them deployed, inciting hatred and resentment in the process. Besides, the logical conclusion of your train of thought is that since we have high unemployment now, we may as well enlist everybody into the army so there's no unemployment. Problem solved, right?
no, not problem solved, but could it be that the government realizes that keeping troops active is a justifiable means of taxing us and spreading our income to these other americans...if they become regular citizens, we would undoubtedly save billions of dollars, but unless those savings equated to tax cuts (highly unlikely) the economy would not grow at a rate to meet the employment needs of these new "regular" citizens.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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boilergrad01 Feb 5 2009, 06:17 PM Post #28
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UMMM

I agree with about 66% 0r 4 of the 6 points Ron Paul says I will let you guys guess what part I disagree with.

AaronK,

If we brought all the troops home they would still be in the Military. No one signs up does one tour and then upon coming home is out. (unless they get seriously wounded) You sign up for a period of time the average enlistment is 8 years four years active duty and 4 years inactive time. When on in-active time you receive no paycheck. I am currently on inactive time that is why i still hold my title as a Captain but am not on active duty so i receive no pay or have no responsibilities. The Gov could call tomorrow and say we need you here and away I go. National Guard and Reservist if you brought them home would go back to the jobs they left. Unless the business went under why they where gone. You should know (not that you would) a company cannot fire someone for being deployed that is in the National Guard or Reserves. When they return home they legally get their job back. So unless the company closed it doors they have a job when they return. We have a Peacetime Army. Bush SR had a very large military in 1990/91. If we had the Army today that we had in 1990 we would have had 250,000 troops in Iraq. The insurgency might have never grown legs.

The letting bad businesses crumble part I agree on.
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Mr Gray Feb 6 2009, 11:20 AM Post #29
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Feb 5 2009, 06:17 PM
UMMM

I agree with about 66% 0r 4 of the 6 points Ron Paul says I will let you guys guess what part I disagree with.

AaronK,

If we brought all the troops home they would still be in the Military. No one signs up does one tour and then upon coming home is out. (unless they get seriously wounded) You sign up for a period of time the average enlistment is 8 years four years active duty and 4 years inactive time. When on in-active time you receive no paycheck. I am currently on inactive time that is why i still hold my title as a Captain but am not on active duty so i receive no pay or have no responsibilities. The Gov could call tomorrow and say we need you here and away I go. National Guard and Reservist if you brought them home would go back to the jobs they left. Unless the business went under why they where gone. You should know (not that you would) a company cannot fire someone for being deployed that is in the National Guard or Reserves. When they return home they legally get their job back. So unless the company closed it doors they have a job when they return. We have a Peacetime Army. Bush SR had a very large military in 1990/91. If we had the Army today that we had in 1990 we would have had 250,000 troops in Iraq. The insurgency might have never grown legs.

The letting bad businesses crumble part I agree on.
thanks BG, but I am thinking more bigger picture. Would we need that many troops at home? What would we have them do? Would we pay them to do nothing? If we didn't pay them, where would they find jobs? What would our unemployment rate be in that scenario?

BG, how many troops are active at any given time?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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