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some selected quotes
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 6 2009, 01:03 PM (248 Views)
thePhilosopher Feb 10 2009, 01:07 PM Post #31
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Lars: "The Federal Reserve isn't a "private bank." Its managers are appointed by elected officials, who all answer to the American people."

This is almost completely false. There is one manager, the chairman of the Fed, who answers to the President. The Fed IS a private bank, who do not in any way answer to the American people

"I agree there is currently a lack of transparency. But when you consider that we have a Congress where both major parties have been trying to outspend each other, we have bigger fish to fry."

They are only able to outspend each other because the Federal Reserve has made that possible. They are an ATM for the Dems nanny state as well as the Repubs war on everyone. You cut the head off the snake if you eliminate the Fed. You allow it to continue indefinitely if you don't.
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HoosierLars Feb 10 2009, 02:41 PM Post #32
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thePhilosopher
Feb 10 2009, 01:07 PM
Lars: "The Federal Reserve isn't a "private bank." Its managers are appointed by elected officials, who all answer to the American people."

This is almost completely false. There is one manager, the chairman of the Fed, who answers to the President. The Fed IS a private bank, who do not in any way answer to the American people

"I agree there is currently a lack of transparency. But when you consider that we have a Congress where both major parties have been trying to outspend each other, we have bigger fish to fry."

They are only able to outspend each other because the Federal Reserve has made that possible. They are an ATM for the Dems nanny state as well as the Repubs war on everyone. You cut the head off the snake if you eliminate the Fed. You allow it to continue indefinitely if you don't.
No Phil, it's almost 100% true. The Fed Chairman is the TOP manager, and is appointed by the ELECTED President. I'd like to see any link that backs up your claim that the chairman is only a "figure head."

The Fed isn't the ATM. Investors who choose to buy US treasuries are the ATM.
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HoosierLars Feb 10 2009, 02:54 PM Post #33
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troubleatiu
Feb 10 2009, 11:52 AM
you get so close lars, then you say something like this, "I know we disagree, but the ability to quickly expand and contract the money supply is very helpful when trying to keep a large economy running smoothly."

i really want to help you on that last 10% you cant comprehend. i really do. its why you are not on my "ignore."
All physical and man made systems need to have some flexibility to cope with unexpected conditions and inputs. In the case of the money supply, it needs to adapt to panics and excessive optimism. It also needs a way to match real wealth creation, which we both agree has increased dramatically over the last 100 years.
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troubleatiu Feb 10 2009, 03:30 PM Post #34
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Feb 10 2009, 02:54 PM
troubleatiu
Feb 10 2009, 11:52 AM
you get so close lars, then you say something like this, "I know we disagree, but the ability to quickly expand and contract the money supply is very helpful when trying to keep a large economy running smoothly."

i really want to help you on that last 10% you cant comprehend. i really do. its why you are not on my "ignore."
All physical and man made systems need to have some flexibility to cope with unexpected conditions and inputs. In the case of the money supply, it needs to adapt to panics and excessive optimism. It also needs a way to match real wealth creation, which we both agree has increased dramatically over the last 100 years.
yes we agree that wealth has increased over the last 100 years, we just dont agree on the practices of the banks during that time. elasticity in the money supply is not a good thing.
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"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."--Henry Kissinger
"What luck for rulers that men do not think."- Adolph Hitler
"Terrorists don't want your freedoms--they want your life. It's dictators and tyrants who want your freedoms."-author unidentified
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HoosierLars Feb 10 2009, 03:34 PM Post #35
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troubleatiu
Feb 10 2009, 03:30 PM
HoosierLars
Feb 10 2009, 02:54 PM
troubleatiu
Feb 10 2009, 11:52 AM
you get so close lars, then you say something like this, "I know we disagree, but the ability to quickly expand and contract the money supply is very helpful when trying to keep a large economy running smoothly."

i really want to help you on that last 10% you cant comprehend. i really do. its why you are not on my "ignore."
All physical and man made systems need to have some flexibility to cope with unexpected conditions and inputs. In the case of the money supply, it needs to adapt to panics and excessive optimism. It also needs a way to match real wealth creation, which we both agree has increased dramatically over the last 100 years.
yes we agree that wealth has increased over the last 100 years, we just dont agree on the practices of the banks during that time. elasticity in the money supply is not a good thing.
I can see why gold standard backers don't support an elastic money supply. It would be very difficult for the government to always be buying and selling gold to match the supply.
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troubleatiu Feb 10 2009, 03:37 PM Post #36
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HoosierLars
Feb 10 2009, 03:34 PM
troubleatiu
Feb 10 2009, 03:30 PM
HoosierLars
Feb 10 2009, 02:54 PM
troubleatiu
Feb 10 2009, 11:52 AM
you get so close lars, then you say something like this, "I know we disagree, but the ability to quickly expand and contract the money supply is very helpful when trying to keep a large economy running smoothly."

i really want to help you on that last 10% you cant comprehend. i really do. its why you are not on my "ignore."
All physical and man made systems need to have some flexibility to cope with unexpected conditions and inputs. In the case of the money supply, it needs to adapt to panics and excessive optimism. It also needs a way to match real wealth creation, which we both agree has increased dramatically over the last 100 years.
yes we agree that wealth has increased over the last 100 years, we just dont agree on the practices of the banks during that time. elasticity in the money supply is not a good thing.
I can see why gold standard backers don't support an elastic money supply. It would be very difficult for the government to always be buying and selling gold to match the supply.
it would also keep it from spending $3trillion on an unneccessary war. thats 30% of the national debt, with no end in sight.
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"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."--Henry Kissinger
"What luck for rulers that men do not think."- Adolph Hitler
"Terrorists don't want your freedoms--they want your life. It's dictators and tyrants who want your freedoms."-author unidentified
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thePhilosopher Feb 10 2009, 05:10 PM Post #37
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HoosierLars
Feb 10 2009, 02:41 PM
No Phil, it's almost 100% true. The Fed Chairman is the TOP manager, and is appointed by the ELECTED President. I'd like to see any link that backs up your claim that the chairman is only a "figure head."

The Fed isn't the ATM. Investors who choose to buy US treasuries are the ATM.
Your first statement is still false. The Fed Chairman is appointed by the President, that is correct. However, what you said "Its managers are appointed by elected officials, who all answer to the American people" is still wrong. There is ONE manager, not many managers that is appointed by ONE elected official, not more than one official. You make it sound like there's this grand system of oversight, which is patently false. And they don't answer to the American people at all, unless you think that the President actually answers to the American people anymore.

Your second statement is on track, I think. We need people to buy those T-Bills, and eventually, they just won't. We act as if the Fed is our ATM. We act as if people will be interested in investing in us. There will come a day where we will stop spending simply because we can't. The liquidity will dry up even for the federal government.
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HoosierLars Feb 10 2009, 05:24 PM Post #38
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thePhilosopher
Feb 10 2009, 05:10 PM
HoosierLars
Feb 10 2009, 02:41 PM
No Phil, it's almost 100% true. The Fed Chairman is the TOP manager, and is appointed by the ELECTED President. I'd like to see any link that backs up your claim that the chairman is only a "figure head."

The Fed isn't the ATM. Investors who choose to buy US treasuries are the ATM.
Your first statement is still false. The Fed Chairman is appointed by the President, that is correct. However, what you said "Its managers are appointed by elected officials, who all answer to the American people" is still wrong. There is ONE manager, not many managers that is appointed by ONE elected official, not more than one official. You make it sound like there's this grand system of oversight, which is patently false. And they don't answer to the American people at all, unless you think that the President actually answers to the American people anymore.

Your second statement is on track, I think. We need people to buy those T-Bills, and eventually, they just won't. We act as if the Fed is our ATM. We act as if people will be interested in investing in us. There will come a day where we will stop spending simply because we can't. The liquidity will dry up even for the federal government.
Phil, are you saying that the Fed Chairman has no authority to fire the employees under him, and doesn't have a major influence in setting the policies? I still contend that my initial statement was more or less correct since the head guy is appointed by an elected official, but I won't get into a pissing match over this point.
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troubleatiu Feb 10 2009, 06:24 PM Post #39
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HoosierLars
Feb 10 2009, 05:24 PM
thePhilosopher
Feb 10 2009, 05:10 PM
HoosierLars
Feb 10 2009, 02:41 PM
No Phil, it's almost 100% true. The Fed Chairman is the TOP manager, and is appointed by the ELECTED President. I'd like to see any link that backs up your claim that the chairman is only a "figure head."

The Fed isn't the ATM. Investors who choose to buy US treasuries are the ATM.
Your first statement is still false. The Fed Chairman is appointed by the President, that is correct. However, what you said "Its managers are appointed by elected officials, who all answer to the American people" is still wrong. There is ONE manager, not many managers that is appointed by ONE elected official, not more than one official. You make it sound like there's this grand system of oversight, which is patently false. And they don't answer to the American people at all, unless you think that the President actually answers to the American people anymore.

Your second statement is on track, I think. We need people to buy those T-Bills, and eventually, they just won't. We act as if the Fed is our ATM. We act as if people will be interested in investing in us. There will come a day where we will stop spending simply because we can't. The liquidity will dry up even for the federal government.
Phil, are you saying that the Fed Chairman has no authority to fire the employees under him, and doesn't have a major influence in setting the policies? I still contend that my initial statement was more or less correct since the head guy is appointed by an elected official, but I won't get into a pissing match over this point.
lars, you can be more correct at times than even you realize. when is the last time a fed chairman fired a manager? it doesnt happen. these guys are all on the same page. you keep taking steps this direction, then pull back at the last minute.
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"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."--Henry Kissinger
"What luck for rulers that men do not think."- Adolph Hitler
"Terrorists don't want your freedoms--they want your life. It's dictators and tyrants who want your freedoms."-author unidentified
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