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How sad
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 18 2009, 11:15 PM (617 Views)
brumdog44 Feb 22 2009, 12:40 PM Post #31
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HoosierLars
Feb 22 2009, 12:35 PM
brumdog44
Feb 22 2009, 12:32 PM
As long as we are going to use anecdotal evidence:

Notre Dame went 25-8 last year and returned seven players in their eight man rotation. They are 15-11 this year and look NIT bound.

So if Illinios is proof of bball being down, how does ND not prove the opposite?
But haven't the Gomers had a bunch of injuries and other unforeseen problems?
LOL

Yeah, Harangody did have to sit out in the wins against Furman and South Dakota.

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crveech Feb 22 2009, 01:06 PM Post #32
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As long as we are going to use anecdotal evidence:

Notre Dame went 25-8 last year and returned seven players in their eight man rotation. They are 15-11 this year and look NIT bound.

So if Illinios is proof of bball being down, how does ND not prove the opposite?
But haven't the Gomers had a bunch of injuries and other unforeseen problems?
I don't where the hell you heard that, Lars. Notre Dame has been pretty healthy all season long. They're just losing too many games and not playing any defense.
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blak_rob0 Feb 22 2009, 01:38 PM Post #33
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crveech
Feb 22 2009, 01:06 PM
HoosierLars
Feb 22 2009, 12:35 PM
brumdog44
Feb 22 2009, 12:32 PM
As long as we are going to use anecdotal evidence:

Notre Dame went 25-8 last year and returned seven players in their eight man rotation. They are 15-11 this year and look NIT bound.

So if Illinios is proof of bball being down, how does ND not prove the opposite?
But haven't the Gomers had a bunch of injuries and other unforeseen problems?
I don't where the hell you heard that, Lars. Notre Dame has been pretty healthy all season long. They're just losing too many games and not playing any defense.
He is being sarcastic because of a certain troll we have to deal with on the Purdue side of the board.
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Evilempire Feb 22 2009, 02:43 PM Post #34
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brumdog44
Feb 22 2009, 12:32 PM
As long as we are going to use anecdotal evidence:

Notre Dame went 25-8 last year and returned seven players in their eight man rotation. They are 15-11 this year and look NIT bound.

So if Illinios is proof of bball being down, how does ND not prove the opposite?
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/clubhouse?teamId=87
http://kenpom.com/team.php?y=2009&team=Notre%20Dame

OK, I'll play along. If you go back and look at last year, the Big East was not nearly as dominant at the top as it is this year. ND's schedule is much tougher this year. They have losses to UNC, @LOU(OT), @SYR(carrier dome is always tough to play), UCONN, MARQ, @PITT, @UCLA, @WV(dangerous team at times). That's 8 of their 11 losses. MARQ, UCONN, PITT, and WV have all improved more than ND has over the past year.

ND has never been considered a very good defensive team, and this year their defense has been very mediocre. They give up 73 per game, they have no quickness to force turnovers, and they have little size/defense to block or bother shots. They may have returned their top 7, but it appears that they use very little from their bench. A short bench leads to poor execution/decisions/ability to defend at the end of games because of tired legs.

Offensively, they depend on jump shots alot which leads to both good and bad runs during games. They don't get to the line much, which hurts them in a number of ways. It doesn't cause foul problems on the other team, so the opposing star players can maximize their time on the floor. It also leads to scoring droughts, since getting to the foul line is the best way to consistently score.

Logically ND should have improved this year(and maybe they have slightly), but apparently they have not improved as much as other teams in their conference. I'm not sure who they lost from their rotation last year. Maybe that player helped the defense, or atleast gave the other 7 a little more rest during games. If the top of the Big East was down this year, it would make your argument better but that simply is not the case since UCONN, LOU, and MARQ have been ranked high most of the year.
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IU > PU > UI Feb 22 2009, 04:22 PM Post #35
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Oh! Illinois won at OSU today and scored 70 points. COLLEGE BASKETBALL MUST BE UP THIS YEAR!!!!

If you didn't catch that, my point was one game doesn't make a difference. Everyone in the Big Ten has played crappy games because even though there isn't a really good team, there is a lot of depth in the Conference this year.
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brumdog44 Feb 22 2009, 06:31 PM Post #36
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brumdog44
Feb 22 2009, 12:32 PM
As long as we are going to use anecdotal evidence:

Notre Dame went 25-8 last year and returned seven players in their eight man rotation. They are 15-11 this year and look NIT bound.

So if Illinios is proof of bball being down, how does ND not prove the opposite?
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/clubhouse?teamId=87
http://kenpom.com/team.php?y=2009&team=Notre%20Dame

OK, I'll play along. If you go back and look at last year, the Big East was not nearly as dominant at the top as it is this year. ND's schedule is much tougher this year. They have losses to UNC, @LOU(OT), @SYR(carrier dome is always tough to play), UCONN, MARQ, @PITT, @UCLA, @WV(dangerous team at times). That's 8 of their 11 losses. MARQ, UCONN, PITT, and WV have all improved more than ND has over the past year.

ND has never been considered a very good defensive team, and this year their defense has been very mediocre. They give up 73 per game, they have no quickness to force turnovers, and they have little size/defense to block or bother shots. They may have returned their top 7, but it appears that they use very little from their bench. A short bench leads to poor execution/decisions/ability to defend at the end of games because of tired legs.

Offensively, they depend on jump shots alot which leads to both good and bad runs during games. They don't get to the line much, which hurts them in a number of ways. It doesn't cause foul problems on the other team, so the opposing star players can maximize their time on the floor. It also leads to scoring droughts, since getting to the foul line is the best way to consistently score.

Logically ND should have improved this year(and maybe they have slightly), but apparently they have not improved as much as other teams in their conference. I'm not sure who they lost from their rotation last year. Maybe that player helped the defense, or atleast gave the other 7 a little more rest during games. If the top of the Big East was down this year, it would make your argument better but that simply is not the case since UCONN, LOU, and MARQ have been ranked high most of the year.
Counterpoints:

Cleveland State beat Syracuse in the Carrier Dome this year.

Ten of Notre Dame's wins: USC Upstate, Loyala Marymount, Indiana, Furman, South Dakota, Boston, Delaware State, Savannah State, DePaul (winless in the Big East and 8-19 overall), and South Florida. Of their wins, only two are against probably NCAA tourney teams (assuming Texas gets in). They are 3-7 in true road games and lost in Indianapolis to Ohio State, one of the teams which you use to 'show' that college bball is down.

And last I looked, teams in the Big East are part of the NCAA, so the league's improvement runs counter to your statement basketball is down.
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Bobobinc Feb 22 2009, 07:04 PM Post #37
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Just stop Evil. Brum is killing you with your own arguments. It's getting embarrassing.
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dreachon Feb 22 2009, 07:28 PM Post #38
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I'll solve this argument once and for all.

College basketball as a whole is down and is now the best it's ever been.

Everybody happy?
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brumdog44 Feb 22 2009, 07:33 PM Post #39
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I'm satisfied, Jazen.

I really don't have an opinion on whether it's up or down. It's something that isn't measureable, and certainly not by pinpointing a couple of teams.
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IU > PU > UI Feb 22 2009, 11:27 PM Post #40
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Does anyone else get annoyed by how BTN has shown the "Big Ten's Greatest Seasons" (which, to my knowledge, is supposed to be a SERIES) documentary on '89 OVER AND OVER and they haven't done any other seasons? How about '02 when IU, UI, UW and OSU tied for the title and MSU got second by one game?! The Big Ten got all five of those teams in, everyone but MSU advanced to the Second Round, UI and IU got to the Sweet Sixteen and IU advanced to the Finals as a five seed.

Or maybe '05 where UI was ranked no. 1 for 17 straight weeks and started the season 29-0. UI, MSU, UW and ... Iowa? made the Tourney. The Big Ten was supposedly "down" and "not athletic enough" (EVIL!!!!) to compete with other conferences, but UI, MSU and UW advanced to the Elite Eight and UI and MSU advanced to the Final Four. UI of course then lost to UNC in a very close game.

Kind of random ... but I'm sick of seeing '89 over and over again.
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Jazen Feb 22 2009, 11:31 PM Post #41
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IU > PU > UI
Feb 22 2009, 11:27 PM
I'm sick of seeing '89 over and over again.
I saw this was on again today, and I agree. The only thing I even remember about that Michigan team was Glen Rice.
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Jazen Feb 22 2009, 11:32 PM Post #42
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While I'm at it, I just saw last night's UNC at Maryland on ESPN CLASSIC.

LOL
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Evilempire Feb 24 2009, 01:51 AM Post #43
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brumdog44
Feb 22 2009, 06:31 PM
Evilempire
Feb 22 2009, 02:43 PM
brumdog44
Feb 22 2009, 12:32 PM
As long as we are going to use anecdotal evidence:

Notre Dame went 25-8 last year and returned seven players in their eight man rotation. They are 15-11 this year and look NIT bound.

So if Illinios is proof of bball being down, how does ND not prove the opposite?
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/clubhouse?teamId=87
http://kenpom.com/team.php?y=2009&team=Notre%20Dame

OK, I'll play along. If you go back and look at last year, the Big East was not nearly as dominant at the top as it is this year. ND's schedule is much tougher this year. They have losses to UNC, @LOU(OT), @SYR(carrier dome is always tough to play), UCONN, MARQ, @PITT, @UCLA, @WV(dangerous team at times). That's 8 of their 11 losses. MARQ, UCONN, PITT, and WV have all improved more than ND has over the past year.

ND has never been considered a very good defensive team, and this year their defense has been very mediocre. They give up 73 per game, they have no quickness to force turnovers, and they have little size/defense to block or bother shots. They may have returned their top 7, but it appears that they use very little from their bench. A short bench leads to poor execution/decisions/ability to defend at the end of games because of tired legs.

Offensively, they depend on jump shots alot which leads to both good and bad runs during games. They don't get to the line much, which hurts them in a number of ways. It doesn't cause foul problems on the other team, so the opposing star players can maximize their time on the floor. It also leads to scoring droughts, since getting to the foul line is the best way to consistently score.

Logically ND should have improved this year(and maybe they have slightly), but apparently they have not improved as much as other teams in their conference. I'm not sure who they lost from their rotation last year. Maybe that player helped the defense, or atleast gave the other 7 a little more rest during games. If the top of the Big East was down this year, it would make your argument better but that simply is not the case since UCONN, LOU, and MARQ have been ranked high most of the year.
Counterpoints:

Cleveland State beat Syracuse in the Carrier Dome this year.

Ten of Notre Dame's wins: USC Upstate, Loyala Marymount, Indiana, Furman, South Dakota, Boston, Delaware State, Savannah State, DePaul (winless in the Big East and 8-19 overall), and South Florida. Of their wins, only two are against probably NCAA tourney teams (assuming Texas gets in). They are 3-7 in true road games and lost in Indianapolis to Ohio State, one of the teams which you use to 'show' that college bball is down.

And last I looked, teams in the Big East are part of the NCAA, so the league's improvement runs counter to your statement basketball is down.
http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/topic/6620013/2/

You pose a question in this post 'are teams the same the next year if all the players return'......seems like you took the other side of the argument when it came to ND.

The Big East's top 8 teams are better than last year's top 8 teams. It's not a drastic change, but it's still there...although I think LOU is worse than last year's team.

I didn't say that SYR is a good team, I said the carrier dome is tough to play in. There is no depth perception, which will normally affect a jump shooting team more. Without looking it up, I'm willing to bet that SYR has a very good home record over the years especially if you compare it to teams of their same talent level. I'd also be willing to bet that the standard deviation of jump shooting teams fg percentage is worse in the carrier dome than in a lot of places....probably just look at opponents 3 point fg percentage(not sure if SYR still plays a zone which actually leads to better 3 point looks).

Did you ever simulate the 50 IU/PU games at Mackey to see how many IU would win?
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irishfan711722 Feb 24 2009, 08:22 AM Post #44
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Feb 22 2009, 12:35 PM
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Feb 22 2009, 12:32 PM
As long as we are going to use anecdotal evidence:

Notre Dame went 25-8 last year and returned seven players in their eight man rotation. They are 15-11 this year and look NIT bound.

So if Illinios is proof of bball being down, how does ND not prove the opposite?
But haven't the Gomers had a bunch of injuries and other unforeseen problems?
liars #1

i prefer to let the excuses come from liars #1 and liars #2 on the turdue board

i knew ND had major flaws

now if turdue fans can willingly admit they do everyone will be OK

as for the ND argument. they are 2-8 vs top 25 teams

turdue is 1-4

take away the cupcakes turdue gets to play in the B10, and they have the pretty much the same record as ND.

now we can let liars #1 and liars #2 make excuses why this isnt true


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goosta Feb 24 2009, 09:05 AM Post #45
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:wtf:
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