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Audit the Fed
Tweet Topic Started: May 13 2009, 12:58 PM (507 Views)
boilergrad01 Jul 7 2009, 01:16 PM Post #46
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Hog,

15% of the vote went to the third party guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Minnesota,_2008
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boilergrad01 Jul 7 2009, 01:16 PM Post #47
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So that is one case from 2008 and that is the magical number 60 seat
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hoosierinhogville Jul 7 2009, 01:21 PM Post #48
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Jul 7 2009, 01:10 PM
Hog,

I am looking up the numbers but i would say Minnesota is a classic example. Al Fucking Franken beating Norm Coleman by a very slim margin. Al Franken won by 215 votes. I am having a little trouble finding out the 3rd party votes but i assume they had more than 215 and thus elected Al Fucking Franken
The results are on CNN. There was an independent candidate that got 15%. Without knowing which way that candidate leans though it is hard to say which one he stole votes from.
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hoosierinhogville Jul 7 2009, 01:27 PM Post #49
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So that is one case from 2008 and that is the magical number 60 seat
As i said in my post, without living there and knowing the independant candidates views, there is know way you can say how he influenced the election. Maybe if he wasn't there, Franken wins easily.

Also, magical 60 seat thing is bullshit. It doesn't guarantee anything. There are plenty of congressmen from both sides that vote across party lines. regardless of what the media and political pundits want you to believe, there really isn't much difference between 59 and 60 seats in the Senate.
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boilergrad01 Jul 7 2009, 01:32 PM Post #50
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Piglet,

I found the results and posted them before your CNN post. You keep changing the rules. First you said 3rd party never affected an election. I provided three examples and since Bill Clinton never reached 50% of the vote it is reasonable that Ross Perot affected the 1992 and 1996 then that was two far away. I then state a third party guy cost Norm Coleman a Senate seat and now you are not sure if that guy really affected it. Please I showed you a case now admit it and think the 3rd party for Al franken and a 60 seat Dem Senate
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hoosierinhogville Jul 7 2009, 01:38 PM Post #51
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Jul 7 2009, 01:32 PM
Piglet,

I found the results and posted them before your CNN post. You keep changing the rules. First you said 3rd party never affected an election. I provided three examples and since Bill Clinton never reached 50% of the vote it is reasonable that Ross Perot affected the 1992 and 1996 then that was two far away. I then state a third party guy cost Norm Coleman a Senate seat and now you are not sure if that guy really affected it. Please I showed you a case now admit it and think the 3rd party for Al franken and a 60 seat Dem Senate
Actually you didn't show me that a 3rd party candidate cost norm coleman a seat. Show me some polling numbers that show that the people that voted for the 3rd party candidate had Coleman as their second choice and i will admit you are right.

I will still contend though that that would not have changed the big spending landscape of Washington, as that is 1 seat, not multiple, and the Dems don't have that big of an advantage in the House, and so far that hasn't meant a damn thing.
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brumdog44 Jul 7 2009, 01:40 PM Post #52
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Barkley's history is all over the place, so it's hard to tell whose votes he was getting.

Examples:

He ran under the Reform party for Senate.
He is a former tobacco industry lobbyist.
He was asked by the Minnesota Democratic party in 2007 to run for the State Senate.

He is associated very closely with Jesse Ventura in Minnesota, and that's a hard group to pinpoint...his support ranged from gun enthuiasts to first time voters wanting to make the 'hip' vote.

Exit polls showed that Barkley was taking about equal votes from both Franken and Coleman, so it's hard to tell his impact. He was more conservative than Franken, but more liberal than Coleman.

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boilergrad01 Jul 7 2009, 01:42 PM Post #53
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So that is one case from 2008 and that is the magical number 60 seat
As i said in my post, without living there and knowing the independant candidates views, there is know way you can say how he influenced the election. Maybe if he wasn't there, Franken wins easily.

Also, magical 60 seat thing is bullshit. It doesn't guarantee anything. There are plenty of congressmen from both sides that vote across party lines. regardless of what the media and political pundits want you to believe, there really isn't much difference between 59 and 60 seats in the Senate.
Piglet,

It must be great to live in your world. The Dems now have 60 seats. Harry Reid is already talking up that the 60 votes are to close debate. Then they can vote what is needed in the home states. The 60 just closes debate then 50 votes passes the bill. yes 50 because Joe the Biden breaks the tie. Thus Dems get the bills passed and then save face in the state they represent.
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boilergrad01 Jul 7 2009, 01:44 PM Post #54
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Jul 7 2009, 11:52 AM
HoosierLars
Jul 7 2009, 11:38 AM
hoosierinhogville
Jul 7 2009, 10:59 AM
HoosierLars
Jul 7 2009, 10:32 AM
Quote:
 
Again, we're just getting started. Senator DeMint will keep fighting to pass Audit the Fed on its own or as an amendment, and we need to continue putting pressure on our senators to do everything in their power to achieve a floor vote!


How about stop voting for losertarian candidates with zero chance of winning, and effectively handing control of Congress to the big spending liberals.
:banghead:
You sir are an idiot.
Right back atcha
Show me where voting for 3rd party candidates has 1.) anything to do with with the audit the fed bill 2.) had any real affect on the election of either the candidate or any member of congress and i will take it back.
Hog here was your original question I have shown that. Stop changing your original question when proven wrong.
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boilergrad01 Jul 7 2009, 01:51 PM Post #55
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Hog,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Barkley

He is a Jesse Ventura guy. Hence out of the Ross Perot movement. Jesse Ventura whom supported Ron Paul

http://www.nolanchart.com/article3435.html
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hoosierinhogville Jul 7 2009, 01:54 PM Post #56
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boilergrad01
Jul 7 2009, 01:42 PM
hoosierinhogville
Jul 7 2009, 01:27 PM
boilergrad01
Jul 7 2009, 01:16 PM
So that is one case from 2008 and that is the magical number 60 seat
As i said in my post, without living there and knowing the independant candidates views, there is know way you can say how he influenced the election. Maybe if he wasn't there, Franken wins easily.

Also, magical 60 seat thing is bullshit. It doesn't guarantee anything. There are plenty of congressmen from both sides that vote across party lines. regardless of what the media and political pundits want you to believe, there really isn't much difference between 59 and 60 seats in the Senate.
Piglet,

It must be great to live in your world. The Dems now have 60 seats. Harry Reid is already talking up that the 60 votes are to close debate. Then they can vote what is needed in the home states. The 60 just closes debate then 50 votes passes the bill. yes 50 because Joe the Biden breaks the tie. Thus Dems get the bills passed and then save face in the state they represent.
I'm sorry is this supposed to make sense to me? Is this your way of saying that 60 seats is a MUCH bigger difference than 59? Show me a bill or amendment to a bill has gotten the support of all the senators of one party.
Also, you keep acting like there isn't two houses of congress. Yuo act as if one seat in the Senate, that may or may not have been voted away from a republican becauase of a 3rd party candidate is the be all end all for vast government overspending.
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hoosierinhogville Jul 7 2009, 01:57 PM Post #57
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Jul 7 2009, 01:51 PM
Hog,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Barkley

He is a Jesse Ventura guy. Hence out of the Ross Perot movement. Jesse Ventura whom supported Ron Paul

http://www.nolanchart.com/article3435.html
So you are going to ignore Brums post that showed that exits polls stated that he pulled equally from both candidates?
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hoosierinhogville Jul 7 2009, 02:05 PM Post #58
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Jul 7 2009, 01:44 PM
Hog here was your original question I have shown that. Stop changing your original question when proven wrong.
As i said, i should have been more specific, but regardless, you have proven nothing. You have shown me for cases, and in none of the cases have you shown any real empirical data that proves that you are correct. In the Coleman/Franken thing, unless you can find some exit poll results that show that the 3rd party candidate pulled most of his votes from coleman, then you haven't roven anything in that instance.
As to the other 3, they are all presidential elections, and you you well know, in Presidential elections, popular vote is meaningless. It is the electoral vote that counts. And in every one of those instances, the people you claim had an affect on the race did not win a single electoral vote, so the reality is, other than skewing the popular vote margins, they had no bearing on thr race, and as such, i have yet to be proven wrong on this topic. Keep trying though. Maybe you and i will both learn something.
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boilergrad01 Jul 7 2009, 02:21 PM Post #59
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Jul 7 2009, 02:05 PM
boilergrad01
Jul 7 2009, 01:44 PM
Hog here was your original question I have shown that. Stop changing your original question when proven wrong.
As i said, i should have been more specific, but regardless, you have proven nothing. You have shown me for cases, and in none of the cases have you shown any real empirical data that proves that you are correct. In the Coleman/Franken thing, unless you can find some exit poll results that show that the 3rd party candidate pulled most of his votes from coleman, then you haven't roven anything in that instance.
As to the other 3, they are all presidential elections, and you you well know, in Presidential elections, popular vote is meaningless. It is the electoral vote that counts. And in every one of those instances, the people you claim had an affect on the race did not win a single electoral vote, so the reality is, other than skewing the popular vote margins, they had no bearing on thr race, and as such, i have yet to be proven wrong on this topic. Keep trying though. Maybe you and i will both learn something.
Hog,

Ok Hog keep voting for guys that have no chance at winning and get upset when crazy shit gets passed.

The funny thing is like I said I support Auditing the FED. I was all for reaching out to the Liberty Caucus followers. You have convinced me to piss on them because they are all just mad nutjobs that could never have an effect on an election. Thank you for allowing me to piss on them and sleep well at night because their votes never would have mattered anyway.
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HoosierLars Jul 7 2009, 02:22 PM Post #60
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boilergrad01
Jul 7 2009, 01:44 PM
hoosierinhogville
Jul 7 2009, 11:52 AM
HoosierLars
Jul 7 2009, 11:38 AM
hoosierinhogville
Jul 7 2009, 10:59 AM
HoosierLars
Jul 7 2009, 10:32 AM
Quote:
 
Again, we're just getting started. Senator DeMint will keep fighting to pass Audit the Fed on its own or as an amendment, and we need to continue putting pressure on our senators to do everything in their power to achieve a floor vote!


How about stop voting for losertarian candidates with zero chance of winning, and effectively handing control of Congress to the big spending liberals.
:banghead:
You sir are an idiot.
Right back atcha
Show me where voting for 3rd party candidates has 1.) anything to do with with the audit the fed bill 2.) had any real affect on the election of either the candidate or any member of congress and i will take it back.
Hog here was your original question I have shown that. Stop changing your original question when proven wrong.
I'm patiently waiting for Hog to take it back. ^o)
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