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Maybe we are the new China
Tweet Topic Started: Jun 1 2009, 03:26 PM (306 Views)
Mr Gray Jun 1 2009, 03:26 PM Post #1
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http://www.10news.com/news/19562217/detail.html

I'm sure there is more to this story, but on the surface, this is dispicable. Didn't we flee England to get away from this type of thing?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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thePhilosopher Jun 1 2009, 03:47 PM Post #2
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I don't see how any judge (or any educated person, for that matter) would find this to be constitutional. Hopefully, this situation will be overturned, though this certainly is a chilling sign about the future of this country.
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yawnzzz Jun 1 2009, 04:24 PM Post #3
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I'd be curious why anyone was notified of this event? My guess is that neighbors complained about all the cars, and that there's a law on the books that doesn't allow organized, scheduled (as in weekly, daily, etc.) gatherings of more than 12 adults without a permit. That's a pretty common law to keep residential areas residential. Religion is probably only involved because if you apply for a permit, there's different guidelines.
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boilergrad01 Jun 1 2009, 04:37 PM Post #4
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the sky is falling the sky is falling
Nothing beats an Astronaut
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HoosierLars Jun 1 2009, 05:01 PM Post #5
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I'll give 100:1 odds that the ACLU doesn't step in and help them.
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yawnzzz Jun 1 2009, 05:35 PM Post #6
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Quote:
 
Every Tuesday night about 15 people drive to Jones’ Bonita home to eat dinner and discuss the Bible. They usually park on Jones' property, he said, but sometimes that parking spills out into the cul-de-sac.

Last month, someone filed a complaint about the number of cars.
...
Obviously, I wasn't there, so I can't tell you exactly what was said. However, what our officer was trying to do is establish what the use is so that we know what regulations to actually utilize.


http://www.10news.com/news/19606760/detail.html
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BTown11 Jun 1 2009, 06:11 PM Post #7
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boilergrad01
Jun 1 2009, 04:37 PM
the sky is falling the sky is falling
i know. on the bright side, i like chinese food, so all is not lost.
Death to Signatures.
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boilergrad01 Jun 1 2009, 06:33 PM Post #8
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BTown11
Jun 1 2009, 06:11 PM
boilergrad01
Jun 1 2009, 04:37 PM
the sky is falling the sky is falling
i know. on the bright side, i like chinese food, so all is not lost.
Btown,

The point is that the Pastor is using his home as part of his church. That is potentially against zoning. The neighbor that reported them is a grade A ass. The zoning is the zoning and technically using the home as bible study location. That potentially goes against the zoning law. If the a group member held the dinner then it would probably be legal but since it is a Pastor holding a meeting in his home it barely crosses the line. The ruling is pretty ticky tacky and if no one complained it wouldn't have been have a problem. My, the sky is falling the sky is falling comment, was probably a little immature but they under the law are not be singled out for being religious. That might have been the motive of the person that filed the complaint but not the motivation of the local govt. San Diego happens to be one of the few conservative areas of California.
Nothing beats an Astronaut
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thePhilosopher Jun 1 2009, 08:02 PM Post #9
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Call me crazy, but I would think the First Amendment would trump zoning laws. And unless the home group is a commercial one, there is no need for this to be enforced in order to "keep residential zones residential," as yawnzzz suggested. But I guess this is all a part of the "freedom" those young men and women are fighting and dying for in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention the generations of vets that fought for this country and the Constitution. When will we, the people, finally say that enough is enough?
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yawnzzz Jun 1 2009, 08:39 PM Post #10
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thePhilosopher
Jun 1 2009, 08:02 PM
Call me crazy, but I would think the First Amendment would trump zoning laws. And unless the home group is a commercial one, there is no need for this to be enforced in order to "keep residential zones residential," as yawnzzz suggested. But I guess this is all a part of the "freedom" those young men and women are fighting and dying for in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention the generations of vets that fought for this country and the Constitution. When will we, the people, finally say that enough is enough?
You're crazy... First Amendment doesn't trump everything; it's not an immunity law. If you're committing an illegal act, whether you're praying or not, it's still illegal. If instead of being a Pastor, the owner of the home was the head of a nonprofit pro bono law firm would this be an issue? There's very little difference in the eyes of the government of a Pastor meeting with his parishioners as there is between any other nonprofit meeting with their clients. People like to drag religion into legal debates where it doesn't belong.
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BTown11 Jun 1 2009, 08:43 PM Post #11
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in this case, having gatherings at your house is different than having a sign "CHURCH OF ____." posted outside a residential house.
Death to Signatures.
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yawnzzz Jun 1 2009, 09:33 PM Post #12
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BTown11
Jun 1 2009, 08:43 PM
in this case, having gatherings at your house is different than having a sign "CHURCH OF ____." posted outside a residential house.
I wasn't arguing that it's a church, but it's actually ironic how similar they are.

Minus the sign, try to make a list of the differences:
Pastor leads church; Pastor lead meeting
Parishioners meet every week at church for mass; Parishioners meet every week at his house
Pastor teaches from bible; Pastor teaches from bible
Cars fill parking lot; cars fill cul de sac

It's actually pretty similar, and there's churches in my community that have less people attend mass than this bible study.

Now I haven't said my personal opinion, but instead have been citing how I believe the law stands (minus the beginning of this post, which I just found ironic). My own personal opinion is that there was no need to issue a citation, which I believe they retracted now. My guess is that law enforcement was called with complaints several times before because unless there's repeated calls, there's rarely if ever going to be a person showing up for parking complaints. That person shouldn't have given a citation, but it is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. People aren't machines, so it's normal to expect a bad judgment call every now and then. There should've never been a citation issued, but the Pastor shouldn't have been so dense to his neighbors displeasure as well.
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BTown11 Jun 1 2009, 09:36 PM Post #13
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yawnzzz
Jun 1 2009, 09:33 PM
BTown11
Jun 1 2009, 08:43 PM
in this case, having gatherings at your house is different than having a sign "CHURCH OF ____." posted outside a residential house.
I wasn't arguing that it's a church, but it's actually ironic how similar they are.

Minus the sign, try to make a list of the differences:
Pastor leads church; Pastor lead meeting
Parishioners meet every week at church for mass; Parishioners meet every week at his house
Pastor teaches from bible; Pastor teaches from bible
Cars fill parking lot; cars fill cul de sac

It's actually pretty similar, and there's churches in my community that have less people attend mass than this bible study.

Now I haven't said my personal opinion, but instead have been citing how I believe the law stands (minus the beginning of this post, which I just found ironic). My own personal opinion is that there was no need to issue a citation, which I believe they retracted now. My guess is that law enforcement was called with complaints several times before because unless there's repeated calls, there's rarely if ever going to be a person showing up for parking complaints. That person shouldn't have given a citation, but it is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. People aren't machines, so it's normal to expect a bad judgment call every now and then. There should've never been a citation issued, but the Pastor shouldn't have been so dense to his neighbors displeasure as well.
i completely agree with you. the "sign" thing was really a metaphor for being church-like in nature. i think you hit the nail on the head.
Death to Signatures.
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Mr Gray Jun 2 2009, 07:34 AM Post #14
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boilergrad01
Jun 1 2009, 06:33 PM
BTown11
Jun 1 2009, 06:11 PM
boilergrad01
Jun 1 2009, 04:37 PM
the sky is falling the sky is falling
i know. on the bright side, i like chinese food, so all is not lost.
Btown,

The point is that the Pastor is using his home as part of his church. That is potentially against zoning. The neighbor that reported them is a grade A ass. The zoning is the zoning and technically using the home as bible study location. That potentially goes against the zoning law. If the a group member held the dinner then it would probably be legal but since it is a Pastor holding a meeting in his home it barely crosses the line. The ruling is pretty ticky tacky and if no one complained it wouldn't have been have a problem. My, the sky is falling the sky is falling comment, was probably a little immature but they under the law are not be singled out for being religious. That might have been the motive of the person that filed the complaint but not the motivation of the local govt. San Diego happens to be one of the few conservative areas of California.
ok, so the neighbor who called them in concerns me, and the zoning law concerns me. It doesn't change the negative sentiment of a story like this.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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eelbor Jun 2 2009, 07:41 AM Post #15
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aaronk2727
Jun 2 2009, 07:34 AM
boilergrad01
Jun 1 2009, 06:33 PM
BTown11
Jun 1 2009, 06:11 PM
boilergrad01
Jun 1 2009, 04:37 PM
the sky is falling the sky is falling
i know. on the bright side, i like chinese food, so all is not lost.
Btown,

The point is that the Pastor is using his home as part of his church. That is potentially against zoning. The neighbor that reported them is a grade A ass. The zoning is the zoning and technically using the home as bible study location. That potentially goes against the zoning law. If the a group member held the dinner then it would probably be legal but since it is a Pastor holding a meeting in his home it barely crosses the line. The ruling is pretty ticky tacky and if no one complained it wouldn't have been have a problem. My, the sky is falling the sky is falling comment, was probably a little immature but they under the law are not be singled out for being religious. That might have been the motive of the person that filed the complaint but not the motivation of the local govt. San Diego happens to be one of the few conservative areas of California.
ok, so the neighbor who called them in concerns me, and the zoning law concerns me. It doesn't change the negative sentiment of a story like this.
Why does the neighbor calling them in concern you? And why on earth would you be against zoning laws? Do you really want the city to allow a strip club and an injection molding plastics factory on the lots to the right and the left of your house?
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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