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Simple summary of health care
Tweet Topic Started: Jun 18 2009, 01:26 PM (820 Views)
eelbor Jul 8 2009, 09:46 PM Post #61
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aaronk2727
Jul 8 2009, 08:05 PM
If you don't like your coverage, I am certain that you can go out and buy your own or upgrade your existing for a cost.
:rofl: :rofl:

oh, shit you crack me up. As I have mentioned on more than one occasion, a large portion of Americans cannot obtain insurance at any cost. I know, I have tried before. The actuarial numbers were not favorable for the insurance company and they always deny my family for coverage at any cost. I can not even but just a major medical plan outside of a group policy that is forced to take my family. You really have a narrow view of reality sometimes.
Posted Image

"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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Mr Gray Jul 8 2009, 10:10 PM Post #62
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yawnzzz
Jul 8 2009, 09:16 PM
aaronk2727
Jul 8 2009, 08:05 PM
brum, it seems like you are showing a little bit of "typical state worker" attitude, which (to your credit) doesn't happen much. What I mean by that is that you, and many many other "entitlement minded" workers, show very little appreciation for what their employers give them, be that salary or benefits. To bitch about something that someone else is paying for all or a large portion of is something that I don't understand.

If you don't like your coverage, I am certain that you can go out and buy your own or upgrade your existing for a cost. That cost may force you to sacrifice a vacation, a newer car, or a big screen TV, but it is a matter of cost benefit & priorities.
I'm starting to really feel bad for your employees.... maybe I should call them up and offer them a job where they'll actually feel like an equal in the business relationship instead of someone worshiping the God of all providing. You don't 'give' employees salary and benefits, they earn it.
all of my employees are either owners at some level or participate in profit sharing. I know that they earn their pay. It doesn't change the fact that their pay & benefits are provided by the employer, not the other way around. I have net to find an unappreciative employee who is worth a shit.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Jul 8 2009, 10:15 PM Post #63
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eelbor
Jul 8 2009, 09:46 PM
aaronk2727
Jul 8 2009, 08:05 PM
If you don't like your coverage, I am certain that you can go out and buy your own or upgrade your existing for a cost.
:rofl: :rofl:

oh, shit you crack me up. As I have mentioned on more than one occasion, a large portion of Americans cannot obtain insurance at any cost. I know, I have tried before. The actuarial numbers were not favorable for the insurance company and they always deny my family for coverage at any cost. I can not even but just a major medical plan outside of a group policy that is forced to take my family. You really have a narrow view of reality sometimes.
geez....you just don't understand costs. If someone is "uninsurable" it means that the cost of their healthcare just to high or to volatile for anyone to be able to financially cover it. You are making it more complicated than it really is. If you want or need something and you can't afford it, you either find a way or you don't get it. In the case of healthcare it is clearly much more tragic, but I still see no justification for forcing the insurance company, the health provider, or the taxpayers to cover those costs.

BTW, you are talking about a VERY small percentage of the population who is uninsurable.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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eelbor Jul 8 2009, 10:57 PM Post #64
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Jul 8 2009, 10:15 PM
BTW, you are talking about a VERY small percentage of the population who is uninsurable.
Approximately 7.8% of Americans have diabetes. 1 in 3 Americans will have some form of significant vascular disease. About 541.8 per 100,000 men and 408.5 per 100,000 women will contract cancer.

These people are all uninsurable outside of a group policy, not a very small percentage of the population.




Posted Image

"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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Mr Gray Jul 9 2009, 07:39 AM Post #65
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eelbor
Jul 8 2009, 10:57 PM
aaronk2727
Jul 8 2009, 10:15 PM
BTW, you are talking about a VERY small percentage of the population who is uninsurable.
Approximately 7.8% of Americans have diabetes. 1 in 3 Americans will have some form of significant vascular disease. About 541.8 per 100,000 men and 408.5 per 100,000 women will contract cancer.

These people are all uninsurable outside of a group policy, not a very small percentage of the population.




how many of those people are uninsured at the time they acquire the illness?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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eelbor Jul 9 2009, 09:27 AM Post #66
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aaronk2727
Jul 9 2009, 07:39 AM
eelbor
Jul 8 2009, 10:57 PM
aaronk2727
Jul 8 2009, 10:15 PM
BTW, you are talking about a VERY small percentage of the population who is uninsurable.
Approximately 7.8% of Americans have diabetes. 1 in 3 Americans will have some form of significant vascular disease. About 541.8 per 100,000 men and 408.5 per 100,000 women will contract cancer.

These people are all uninsurable outside of a group policy, not a very small percentage of the population.




how many of those people are uninsured at the time they acquire the illness?
Changing tack?

If they are insured fine and dandy. The point is, if for whatever reason they lose a group policy, they can not be insured.
Posted Image

"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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Mr Gray Jul 9 2009, 01:05 PM Post #67
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eelbor
Jul 9 2009, 09:27 AM
aaronk2727
Jul 9 2009, 07:39 AM
eelbor
Jul 8 2009, 10:57 PM
aaronk2727
Jul 8 2009, 10:15 PM
BTW, you are talking about a VERY small percentage of the population who is uninsurable.
Approximately 7.8% of Americans have diabetes. 1 in 3 Americans will have some form of significant vascular disease. About 541.8 per 100,000 men and 408.5 per 100,000 women will contract cancer.

These people are all uninsurable outside of a group policy, not a very small percentage of the population.




how many of those people are uninsured at the time they acquire the illness?
Changing tack?

If they are insured fine and dandy. The point is, if for whatever reason they lose a group policy, they can not be insured.
ok, let's go with this. They lose their policy and now can not be insured why?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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eelbor Jul 9 2009, 01:37 PM Post #68
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aaronk2727
Jul 9 2009, 01:05 PM
eelbor
Jul 9 2009, 09:27 AM
aaronk2727
Jul 9 2009, 07:39 AM
eelbor
Jul 8 2009, 10:57 PM
aaronk2727
Jul 8 2009, 10:15 PM
BTW, you are talking about a VERY small percentage of the population who is uninsurable.
Approximately 7.8% of Americans have diabetes. 1 in 3 Americans will have some form of significant vascular disease. About 541.8 per 100,000 men and 408.5 per 100,000 women will contract cancer.

These people are all uninsurable outside of a group policy, not a very small percentage of the population.




how many of those people are uninsured at the time they acquire the illness?
Changing tack?

If they are insured fine and dandy. The point is, if for whatever reason they lose a group policy, they can not be insured.
ok, let's go with this. They lose their policy and now can not be insured why?
They are too big of a financial risk for the insurance companies.
Posted Image

"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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Mr Gray Jul 9 2009, 03:13 PM Post #69
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eelbor
Jul 9 2009, 01:37 PM
aaronk2727
Jul 9 2009, 01:05 PM
eelbor
Jul 9 2009, 09:27 AM
aaronk2727
Jul 9 2009, 07:39 AM
eelbor
Jul 8 2009, 10:57 PM
aaronk2727
Jul 8 2009, 10:15 PM
BTW, you are talking about a VERY small percentage of the population who is uninsurable.
Approximately 7.8% of Americans have diabetes. 1 in 3 Americans will have some form of significant vascular disease. About 541.8 per 100,000 men and 408.5 per 100,000 women will contract cancer.

These people are all uninsurable outside of a group policy, not a very small percentage of the population.




how many of those people are uninsured at the time they acquire the illness?
Changing tack?

If they are insured fine and dandy. The point is, if for whatever reason they lose a group policy, they can not be insured.
ok, let's go with this. They lose their policy and now can not be insured why?
They are too big of a financial risk for the insurance companies.
Agreed. Would you concur that the risk is due to the cost of the necessary care required for the client's medical condition?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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eelbor Jul 9 2009, 04:26 PM Post #70
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Jul 9 2009, 03:13 PM
Agreed. Would you concur that the risk is due to the cost of the necessary care required for the client's medical condition?
No, it is not the cost of the required medical care that causes the companies to deny coverage, it is the potential for catastrophic health problems. This problem is exacerbated by insurance companies denying simple preventative maintenance medical care. If you take care of a problem before it becomes emergent, it is substantially less expensive than if you wait until grandpa needs a quadruple bypass.
Posted Image

"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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Mr Gray Jul 9 2009, 08:40 PM Post #71
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eelbor
Jul 9 2009, 04:26 PM
aaronk2727
Jul 9 2009, 03:13 PM
Agreed. Would you concur that the risk is due to the cost of the necessary care required for the client's medical condition?
No, it is not the cost of the required medical care that causes the companies to deny coverage, it is the potential for catastrophic health problems. This problem is exacerbated by insurance companies denying simple preventative maintenance medical care. If you take care of a problem before it becomes emergent, it is substantially less expensive than if you wait until grandpa needs a quadruple bypass.
eel, a diabetic or someone with cancer has a high likelihood of having "catastrophic health problems" as you put it, so although you are going to do everything in your power to not agree with me, it absolutely is the cost....the "catastrophic health problems" are expensive and the insurance company can't afford to pay for it on a $500-$2000/month premium any more than the client can afford to pay for it with $500-$2000 per month.

If preventative maintenance medical care is so cost effective, why doesn't the consumer pay for hit themselves?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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eelbor Jul 9 2009, 09:55 PM Post #72
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Jul 9 2009, 08:40 PM
If preventative maintenance medical care is so cost effective, why doesn't the consumer pay for hit themselves?
Were you trying to say preventative care it is not effective?
Posted Image

"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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Mr Gray Jul 10 2009, 09:29 AM Post #73
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eelbor
Jul 9 2009, 09:55 PM
aaronk2727
Jul 9 2009, 08:40 PM
If preventative maintenance medical care is so cost effective, why doesn't the consumer pay for hit themselves?
Were you trying to say preventative care it is not effective?
no, if I were trying to say that, I would have said it. You are stating that it is cost effective, therefore I would like to know why the consumer doesn't just pay for this care themselves to prevent extremely high costs in the future which would lead to unafordable or unavailable insurance?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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HoosierLars Jul 10 2009, 10:49 AM Post #74
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aaronk2727
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eelbor
Jul 9 2009, 09:55 PM
aaronk2727
Jul 9 2009, 08:40 PM
If preventative maintenance medical care is so cost effective, why doesn't the consumer pay for hit themselves?
Were you trying to say preventative care it is not effective?
no, if I were trying to say that, I would have said it. You are stating that it is cost effective, therefore I would like to know why the consumer doesn't just pay for this care themselves to prevent extremely high costs in the future which would lead to unafordable or unavailable insurance?
Aaron, I don't know why you aren't getting this. People with type 1 diabetes aren't insurable, period. It doesn't matter if they pay for their own preventative care.

Let's cut to the chase and admit that it's very expensive to insure some people, and it doesn't make economic sense for insurance companies to provide affordable rates for some people. The question is do we find a way to subsidize them (group insurance or some other collective approach) or let them die, saving us money?
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Mr Gray Jul 10 2009, 11:24 AM Post #75
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HoosierLars
Jul 10 2009, 10:49 AM
aaronk2727
Jul 10 2009, 09:29 AM
eelbor
Jul 9 2009, 09:55 PM
aaronk2727
Jul 9 2009, 08:40 PM
If preventative maintenance medical care is so cost effective, why doesn't the consumer pay for hit themselves?
Were you trying to say preventative care it is not effective?
no, if I were trying to say that, I would have said it. You are stating that it is cost effective, therefore I would like to know why the consumer doesn't just pay for this care themselves to prevent extremely high costs in the future which would lead to unafordable or unavailable insurance?
Aaron, I don't know why you aren't getting this. People with type 1 diabetes aren't insurable, period. It doesn't matter if they pay for their own preventative care.

Let's cut to the chase and admit that it's very expensive to insure some people, and it doesn't make economic sense for insurance companies to provide affordable rates for some people. The question is do we find a way to subsidize them (group insurance or some other collective approach) or let them die, saving us money?
lars, were you being sarcastic in your 1st comment? And yes, we can cut to the chase, but I was trying to bring us down a logical path. We must understand the root of the costs and realize that they aren't going away. If we force the insurance company to cover it, they are going to raise the rates for everyone to make up the difference. If we allow the government to pay for it, they are going to raise taxes. No matter which way you look at it, it has to be paid for, and I just can't figure out who Eel wants to cover it?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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