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Two Concerns with Public Health Care
Tweet Topic Started: Jun 25 2009, 09:11 AM (173 Views)
Mr Gray Jun 25 2009, 09:37 PM Post #16
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brumdog44
Jun 25 2009, 09:27 PM
So are you against the Patriot Act, aaron? Phone-tapping of suspected terrorists? I'd hardly call those situational or anecdotal.
Well, I haven't even read the Patriot Act, but based on the hot issues YES, I AM AGAINST IT. Especially phone taps without a warrant. In the case of terrorists, I have heard the Bush defense that if a conversation is taking place, they wouldn't have time to get a warrant and also get the key information to prevent an attack. I'm not sure why we couldn't come up with a scenario where the conversations are taped, but cannot be opened without a password given by a series of judges/officials upon the receipt of a warrant. It would seem to me that we have that type of technology.

I find it interesting that you assume I am in favor of the Patriot Act. You will be hard pressed to find any issue where I have been against freedom.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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IUCOLTFAN Jun 25 2009, 09:51 PM Post #17
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good points Phil, I did make some similiar comments about our governments "efficiency" problems............I agree whole heartedly.

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IUCOLTFAN Jun 25 2009, 10:12 PM Post #18
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eelbor
Jun 25 2009, 01:50 PM
aaronk2727
Jun 25 2009, 01:42 PM
eelbor
Jun 25 2009, 12:25 PM
aaronk2727
Jun 25 2009, 12:07 PM
I would like to hear sirbrian's response to this, as he is the only 100% supporter or national healthcare that I know of on here. He will probably just give us a *yawn* instead.

Eel is in favor of government control over the private healthcare industry, which is basically the same thing, so we'll see how he responds.
I am? Huh,.. news to me. I thought I was for government control over the insurance industry.
you really don't see that as one and the same eel?
Nope. Much as politicians would like you to believe that we have a healthcare crisis in the United States, this is not the case. Our healthcare is fine. We have an insurance crisis in the United States.

I will give you an example. Go over to your local hospital and have an MRI. Tell them you have no insurance and wish to pay cash. Now go to another hospital and get the same MRI done on your insurance's tab. Compare the bills. The bill w/o insurance will be substantially higher. Why should those without insurance, those least able to pay, have to pay the most for their healthcare? Why should the uninsured have to subsidize the insured?
MOST poor or illegal people using the ER would not pay the bill if it were $500 or $2500. If you had to pay for ER services with cash, the clerical overhead, time with a nurse for vitals and such, then see an actual doctor, how often could you or your family members ever be seen by a doctor. Does a doctor not deserve to be paid well? Does a nurse not deserve to be rewarded for her skills?

If you had a bad injury from an accident at home and needed a few dozen stitches, what are the nurse and the doctor worth that saved you from bleeding to death, getting a bad infection, maybe even saving a finger or limb for you, is that a service you expect to be able to waltz in and pay cash for? Would that be worth more than you pay for a night out at the bar? What does a good surgeon go for by the hour?

If our healthcare system and quality was something I or the average citizen could pay for after a stop at the ATM, I'm not sure I would trust it or want it.
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yawnzzz Jun 25 2009, 10:18 PM Post #19
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aaronk2727
Jun 25 2009, 09:37 PM
In the case of terrorists, I have heard the Bush defense that if a conversation is taking place, they wouldn't have time to get a warrant and also get the key information to prevent an attack.
That's a really really poor defense meant to confuse the masses. The local law enforcement in my small town can call a judge at night and get a warrant approved in under 30 seconds. There's a 0% chance that a Federal Law Enforcement agency couldn't get it immediately. They have judges paid to do nothing but give warrants. They just don't get warrants because then the information they listened to would have to be reported.
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yawnzzz Jun 25 2009, 10:26 PM Post #20
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I think you guys are missing a big point on why the prices are so high when you don't have insurance. They're high because the majority of people won't pay at all, so they up the price with the thought that if 1/4 of the people pay, then they'll come out even. I know the hospitals in my area yearly rack up millions in bills that they'll never collect, and they know and expect this.

A lot of hospitals are trying to structural their billing in the same terms as loans with the thought that if they make the bill easier to pay, maybe they'll at least get a little money. A $5,000 bill isn't going to be paid by someone making $20,000/year, but if they bill them $100/month, then hopefully they get at least a few thousand from the person because generally people will try to pay bills if they can.
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