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Glenn Beck's "Common Sense"; A few good quotes for discussion
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 9 2009, 08:52 PM (146 Views)
Mr Gray Jul 9 2009, 08:52 PM Post #1
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I'm not sure if any of you guys have read any of this book yet, but I am about 85 pages in and so far it is pretty good. He is stopping just short of advocating a 3rd party, but is clearly bashing the Republicand and the Dems and pointing out the similarities in their policies and hypocricies that are bad for our country. I'll throw a few quotes out there in this thread if anyone would like to discuss.

Teddy Roosevelt (Republican) said in a speech titled "The New Nationalism" that "personal property is subject to the general right of the community to regulate its to whatever degree the public welfare may require it"


Woodrow Wilson once said "we must demand that the individual shall be willing to lose the sense of personal achievement and shall be content to realize his activity only in connection to the activity of the many"
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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BoilerUpAT Jul 9 2009, 08:58 PM Post #2
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I've been reading it. I like Glenn and have read most of his books. Sometimes, well most of the time, he gets a little crazy and he catches hell for it from his critics. But you know what? I don't care. I like his show and radio program. Its ENTERTAINING, and I get some good info on current affairs (with a slant of course, I know how to read through spin thank you). I know he has some good points and believes pretty much what I do about most things (not all) so I bought it.

I didn't know what to think of the book but I think it does a good job of putting the blame on both sides of the aisle in reference to a Govt growing out of control in the process.
Close by the Wabash, In famed Hoosier land, Stands old Purdue, Serene and Grand, Cherished in Memory, By all her sons and daughters true, Fair Alma Mater, All Hail Purdue
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hoosierinhogville Jul 9 2009, 09:48 PM Post #3
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I haven't read, and honestly probably won't simply due to a lack of time, but i like Beck. I don't watch his show much, but i can tolerate him a lot more than I can the O'Reillys and Olbermann of the world.

YOu know the first thing that popped into my head when i saw that first quote? Teddy Roosevelt was one of John McCAin's heros, and a guy he supposedly modeled his politics after. And you wonder why i didn't want to vote for the guy.
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HoosierLars Jul 10 2009, 12:11 AM Post #4
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hoosierinhogville
Jul 9 2009, 09:48 PM
I haven't read, and honestly probably won't simply due to a lack of time, but i like Beck. I don't watch his show much, but i can tolerate him a lot more than I can the O'Reillys and Olbermann of the world.
I like Beck too. But putting O'Reilly and Olbermann in the same sentence is pretty ignorant.
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Bobobinc Jul 10 2009, 12:22 AM Post #5
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Jul 9 2009, 09:48 PM
I haven't read, and honestly probably won't simply due to a lack of time, but i like Beck. I don't watch his show much, but i can tolerate him a lot more than I can the O'Reillys and Olbermann of the world.

YOu know the first thing that popped into my head when i saw that first quote? Teddy Roosevelt was one of John McCAin's heros, and a guy he supposedly modeled his politics after. And you wonder why i didn't want to vote for the guy.
I have not read the book and I don't know if the Roosevelt clip was pulled from a larger quote or aaron posted just what was in the book. It is typical, however, of something aaron or Beck might do.

Here's the speech, in it's entirety. http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=501

The quote is about the 9th paragraph from the bottom. You'll notice the context of the remark. In TR's view, a few wealthy men were getting even more wealthy off of the country's natural resources. He felt they would use them up, leaving nothing behind for future generations while giving little back to the common man. Remember what was going on in this country at that time.

He also says this later on; "I believe in shaping the ends of government to protect property as well as human welfare."

While we are quoting snippets, here are a few more from that speech.

"That is one of the fundamental reasons why the special interests should be driven out of politics."

"One of the fundamental necessities in a representative government such as ours is to make certain that the men to whom the people delegate their power shall serve the people by whom they are elected, and not the special interests."

" We must drive the special interests out of politics. That is one of our tasks to-day. Every special interest is entitled to justice�full, fair, and complete�and, now, mind you, if there were any attempt by mob-violence to plunder and work harm to the special interest, whatever it may be, that I most dislike, and the wealthy man, whomsoever he may be, for whom I have the greatest contempt, I would fight for him, and you would if you were worth your salt. He should have justice. For every special interest is entitled to justice, but not one is entitled to a vote in Congress, to a voice on the bench, or to representation in any public office. The Constitution guarantees protection to property, and we must make that promise good. But it does not give the right of suffrage to any corporation."


I don't know if you know much about TR Hog, but don't judge him on one quote. There are some here who have shown their dislike for him....... He over used his power as president, powers not granted by the Constitution. He enlarged the scope of government through new regulations. Expanded our military presence around the world......on and on. But I think he was the right man in the right job at the perfect time in our history. He believed that citizens should consider the interests of the country, not before property or wealth or individual freedom, but just consider how what we do affects every other citizen.
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Mr Gray Jul 10 2009, 09:07 AM Post #6
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hoosierinhogville
Jul 9 2009, 09:48 PM
I haven't read, and honestly probably won't simply due to a lack of time, but i like Beck. I don't watch his show much, but i can tolerate him a lot more than I can the O'Reillys and Olbermann of the world.

YOu know the first thing that popped into my head when i saw that first quote? Teddy Roosevelt was one of John McCAin's heros, and a guy he supposedly modeled his politics after. And you wonder why i didn't want to vote for the guy.
Hog, I have to assume that you almost never listen or watch Beck, and definitely haven't in the last year if you even put him in any type of comparison with O'Reilly or Olberman. BTW, Beck also points out your comment below about McCain naming Teddy as the person he most admired in politics.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Jul 10 2009, 09:27 AM Post #7
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Jul 10 2009, 12:22 AM
hoosierinhogville
Jul 9 2009, 09:48 PM
I haven't read, and honestly probably won't simply due to a lack of time, but i like Beck. I don't watch his show much, but i can tolerate him a lot more than I can the O'Reillys and Olbermann of the world.

YOu know the first thing that popped into my head when i saw that first quote? Teddy Roosevelt was one of John McCAin's heros, and a guy he supposedly modeled his politics after. And you wonder why i didn't want to vote for the guy.
I have not read the book and I don't know if the Roosevelt clip was pulled from a larger quote or aaron posted just what was in the book. It is typical, however, of something aaron or Beck might do.

Here's the speech, in it's entirety. http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=501

The quote is about the 9th paragraph from the bottom. You'll notice the context of the remark. In TR's view, a few wealthy men were getting even more wealthy off of the country's natural resources. He felt they would use them up, leaving nothing behind for future generations while giving little back to the common man. Remember what was going on in this country at that time.

He also says this later on; "I believe in shaping the ends of government to protect property as well as human welfare."

While we are quoting snippets, here are a few more from that speech.

"That is one of the fundamental reasons why the special interests should be driven out of politics."

"One of the fundamental necessities in a representative government such as ours is to make certain that the men to whom the people delegate their power shall serve the people by whom they are elected, and not the special interests."

" We must drive the special interests out of politics. That is one of our tasks to-day. Every special interest is entitled to justice�full, fair, and complete�and, now, mind you, if there were any attempt by mob-violence to plunder and work harm to the special interest, whatever it may be, that I most dislike, and the wealthy man, whomsoever he may be, for whom I have the greatest contempt, I would fight for him, and you would if you were worth your salt. He should have justice. For every special interest is entitled to justice, but not one is entitled to a vote in Congress, to a voice on the bench, or to representation in any public office. The Constitution guarantees protection to property, and we must make that promise good. But it does not give the right of suffrage to any corporation."


I don't know if you know much about TR Hog, but don't judge him on one quote. There are some here who have shown their dislike for him....... He over used his power as president, powers not granted by the Constitution. He enlarged the scope of government through new regulations. Expanded our military presence around the world......on and on. But I think he was the right man in the right job at the perfect time in our history. He believed that citizens should consider the interests of the country, not before property or wealth or individual freedom, but just consider how what we do affects every other citizen.
Bob, thanks for slamming me. I don't have a record of taking quotes out of context on this board, and yes that quote came directly out of Beck's book that way.

Now, I just read the entire speech and that entire paragraph and I don't see how the context changes the message and the problem that I have with it. I'm not sure what exact problem he was facing that caused this statement, but based on what you have said, I don't find justification for singling out a particular class of people and determining that their wealth makes them subject to less of a right to personal property.

If he was talking about someone pouring raw sewage into a river which happens to be running through their personal property, or course that would be a violation of someone else's personal property as it is well known that the river carries that raw sewage into other's property.

Another example would be the cutting down of forests. I believe that the free market regulates this example far better than the government could. The "rich" have the money to buy up forest land and cut down the trees for a profit, however there are 2 things that happen to create natural conservation,. 1) The more trees they cut down and sell into the market, the lower the price of the lumber(trees) becomes due to a surplus 2) The more land that is bought = less land that is available (deficit), driving the cost of the forest land up. Conservation takes place naturally through the basic laws of supply & demand.

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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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hoosierinhogville Jul 10 2009, 09:30 AM Post #8
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Jul 10 2009, 09:07 AM
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Jul 9 2009, 09:48 PM
I haven't read, and honestly probably won't simply due to a lack of time, but i like Beck. I don't watch his show much, but i can tolerate him a lot more than I can the O'Reillys and Olbermann of the world.

YOu know the first thing that popped into my head when i saw that first quote? Teddy Roosevelt was one of John McCAin's heros, and a guy he supposedly modeled his politics after. And you wonder why i didn't want to vote for the guy.
Hog, I have to assume that you almost never listen or watch Beck, and definitely haven't in the last year if you even put him in any type of comparison with O'Reilly or Olberman. BTW, Beck also points out your comment below about McCain naming Teddy as the person he most admired in politics.
I haven't watched him in awhile, though i used to watch a few times a week. My mentioning O'reilly and Olbermann wasn't necessarily a comparison of the 3. I was basically saying that they, along with Hannity, and Rachel Maddow and others all have basically the same job, and i don't watch those others at all, whereas in the past i would watch Glen Beck.
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HoosierLars Jul 10 2009, 10:45 AM Post #9
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Excellent post Bob. I think TR was in OldSchools bottom three presidents, and maybe the worst, right there with Lincoln. :wtf:
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Bobobinc Jul 10 2009, 11:23 AM Post #10
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Jul 9 2009, 09:48 PM
I haven't read, and honestly probably won't simply due to a lack of time, but i like Beck. I don't watch his show much, but i can tolerate him a lot more than I can the O'Reillys and Olbermann of the world.

YOu know the first thing that popped into my head when i saw that first quote? Teddy Roosevelt was one of John McCAin's heros, and a guy he supposedly modeled his politics after. And you wonder why i didn't want to vote for the guy.
I have not read the book and I don't know if the Roosevelt clip was pulled from a larger quote or aaron posted just what was in the book. It is typical, however, of something aaron or Beck might do.

Here's the speech, in it's entirety. http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=501

The quote is about the 9th paragraph from the bottom. You'll notice the context of the remark. In TR's view, a few wealthy men were getting even more wealthy off of the country's natural resources. He felt they would use them up, leaving nothing behind for future generations while giving little back to the common man. Remember what was going on in this country at that time.

He also says this later on; "I believe in shaping the ends of government to protect property as well as human welfare."

While we are quoting snippets, here are a few more from that speech.

"That is one of the fundamental reasons why the special interests should be driven out of politics."

"One of the fundamental necessities in a representative government such as ours is to make certain that the men to whom the people delegate their power shall serve the people by whom they are elected, and not the special interests."

" We must drive the special interests out of politics. That is one of our tasks to-day. Every special interest is entitled to justice�full, fair, and complete�and, now, mind you, if there were any attempt by mob-violence to plunder and work harm to the special interest, whatever it may be, that I most dislike, and the wealthy man, whomsoever he may be, for whom I have the greatest contempt, I would fight for him, and you would if you were worth your salt. He should have justice. For every special interest is entitled to justice, but not one is entitled to a vote in Congress, to a voice on the bench, or to representation in any public office. The Constitution guarantees protection to property, and we must make that promise good. But it does not give the right of suffrage to any corporation."


I don't know if you know much about TR Hog, but don't judge him on one quote. There are some here who have shown their dislike for him....... He over used his power as president, powers not granted by the Constitution. He enlarged the scope of government through new regulations. Expanded our military presence around the world......on and on. But I think he was the right man in the right job at the perfect time in our history. He believed that citizens should consider the interests of the country, not before property or wealth or individual freedom, but just consider how what we do affects every other citizen.
Bob, thanks for slamming me. I don't have a record of taking quotes out of context on this board, and yes that quote came directly out of Beck's book that way.

Now, I just read the entire speech and that entire paragraph and I don't see how the context changes the message and the problem that I have with it. I'm not sure what exact problem he was facing that caused this statement, but based on what you have said, I don't find justification for singling out a particular class of people and determining that their wealth makes them subject to less of a right to personal property.

If he was talking about someone pouring raw sewage into a river which happens to be running through their personal property, or course that would be a violation of someone else's personal property as it is well known that the river carries that raw sewage into other's property.

Another example would be the cutting down of forests. I believe that the free market regulates this example far better than the government could. The "rich" have the money to buy up forest land and cut down the trees for a profit, however there are 2 things that happen to create natural conservation,. 1) The more trees they cut down and sell into the market, the lower the price of the lumber(trees) becomes due to a surplus 2) The more land that is bought = less land that is available (deficit), driving the cost of the forest land up. Conservation takes place naturally through the basic laws of supply & demand.

You quoted Beck without reading the speech. How did you know the context ?

Look, I've read a lot about TR. I'll be the first to say he was a progressive Republican who believed in more government control. There's no denying that. But i think we have to try to remember what was going on in this country at that time.

Working conditions in the early 1900s were terrible. Children were working to help keep food on the table. A large gap existed between the rich and the poor. Natural resources were being exploited. The average adult had an 8th grade education.

We are all guilty of injecting today's ideals and beliefs into history and making judgements without taking into account the events and public opinions of the times. TR reacted to, as a good president should, the problems of his day.

TR's statements regarding personal property were, IMO, a reaction to the times. The private property he refers to belonged to the special interests, the wealthy, and he believed that they were not acting in the national interest, which he obviously felt strongly about.

As for your examples......raw sewage hurts EVERYONE, not just the owner whose property it runs through. That's what TR was trying to say. Consider the ramifications of your actions on the nation, other citizens. That was not happening AT THAT TIME. In his mind, a few wealthy people were taking advantage of the resources of this country without any thought of what it was doing to the people.

I really don't need an economics lessen from you to understand how supply and demand affect conservation. I also understand how the free market.....today.....can change the behavior of companies that pollute or otherwise use business practices that hurt the environment. Once again, however, you fail to look at what was happening in the early twentieth century. There was no Action 9 to report that Company A was dumping poison into a river, hence the public wouldn't stop using Company A's products and therefore cause them to change their business practices for fear of losing business. Forests were being clear cut, with little being replanted. Strip mining and factories were polluting the rivers. Where was the motivation to stop ? America was growing, people cared about jobs, not conservation. TR looked ahead, thank God.

TR's fatal flaw,IMO, was that he thought every President would/should be like him. He had an ego and believed that he knew what was best for the country and did everything in his power to turn those beliefs in to reality. He significantly changed the power of the Presidency, not necessarily for the good. But he got shit done. Whether you agree with his policies or not, no one can deny that he was an active President.

I actually agree with you more than you think about the free market and limited government than you might believe. But I think that TR was right for the times and believe we are a much better nation for him being President.
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Bobobinc Jul 10 2009, 11:30 AM Post #11
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Excellent post Bob. I think TR was in OldSchools bottom three presidents, and maybe the worst, right there with Lincoln. :wtf:
Do you miss school Lars ? I understand he's in Europe, probably walking around with a clothespin on his nose so he doesn't have to smell all the liberalism.

I wonder if he's going to Germany. Of course, if he had been President in '41, going to Paris today might be the same as going to Germany. HEIL !!
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HoosierLars Jul 10 2009, 11:35 AM Post #12
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Excellent post Bob. I think TR was in OldSchools bottom three presidents, and maybe the worst, right there with Lincoln. :wtf:
Do you miss school Lars ? I understand he's in Europe, probably walking around with a clothespin on his nose so he doesn't have to smell all the liberalism.

I wonder if he's going to Germany. Of course, if he had been President in '41, going to Paris today might be the same as going to Germany. HEIL !!
I miss him. And don't forget he's a self-proclaimed "classic liberal." Maybe he's visiting the beaches of Normandy.
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Mr Gray Jul 10 2009, 12:16 PM Post #13
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Excellent post Bob. I think TR was in OldSchools bottom three presidents, and maybe the worst, right there with Lincoln. :wtf:
Do you miss school Lars ? I understand he's in Europe, probably walking around with a clothespin on his nose so he doesn't have to smell all the liberalism.

I wonder if he's going to Germany. Of course, if he had been President in '41, going to Paris today might be the same as going to Germany. HEIL !!
School is back now, but given the fact that he also visited Amsterdam, I have no idea how me made it back.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Jul 10 2009, 12:17 PM Post #14
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Jul 9 2009, 09:48 PM
I haven't read, and honestly probably won't simply due to a lack of time, but i like Beck. I don't watch his show much, but i can tolerate him a lot more than I can the O'Reillys and Olbermann of the world.

YOu know the first thing that popped into my head when i saw that first quote? Teddy Roosevelt was one of John McCAin's heros, and a guy he supposedly modeled his politics after. And you wonder why i didn't want to vote for the guy.
I have not read the book and I don't know if the Roosevelt clip was pulled from a larger quote or aaron posted just what was in the book. It is typical, however, of something aaron or Beck might do.

Here's the speech, in it's entirety. http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=501

The quote is about the 9th paragraph from the bottom. You'll notice the context of the remark. In TR's view, a few wealthy men were getting even more wealthy off of the country's natural resources. He felt they would use them up, leaving nothing behind for future generations while giving little back to the common man. Remember what was going on in this country at that time.

He also says this later on; "I believe in shaping the ends of government to protect property as well as human welfare."

While we are quoting snippets, here are a few more from that speech.

"That is one of the fundamental reasons why the special interests should be driven out of politics."

"One of the fundamental necessities in a representative government such as ours is to make certain that the men to whom the people delegate their power shall serve the people by whom they are elected, and not the special interests."

" We must drive the special interests out of politics. That is one of our tasks to-day. Every special interest is entitled to justice�full, fair, and complete�and, now, mind you, if there were any attempt by mob-violence to plunder and work harm to the special interest, whatever it may be, that I most dislike, and the wealthy man, whomsoever he may be, for whom I have the greatest contempt, I would fight for him, and you would if you were worth your salt. He should have justice. For every special interest is entitled to justice, but not one is entitled to a vote in Congress, to a voice on the bench, or to representation in any public office. The Constitution guarantees protection to property, and we must make that promise good. But it does not give the right of suffrage to any corporation."


I don't know if you know much about TR Hog, but don't judge him on one quote. There are some here who have shown their dislike for him....... He over used his power as president, powers not granted by the Constitution. He enlarged the scope of government through new regulations. Expanded our military presence around the world......on and on. But I think he was the right man in the right job at the perfect time in our history. He believed that citizens should consider the interests of the country, not before property or wealth or individual freedom, but just consider how what we do affects every other citizen.
Bob, thanks for slamming me. I don't have a record of taking quotes out of context on this board, and yes that quote came directly out of Beck's book that way.

Now, I just read the entire speech and that entire paragraph and I don't see how the context changes the message and the problem that I have with it. I'm not sure what exact problem he was facing that caused this statement, but based on what you have said, I don't find justification for singling out a particular class of people and determining that their wealth makes them subject to less of a right to personal property.

If he was talking about someone pouring raw sewage into a river which happens to be running through their personal property, or course that would be a violation of someone else's personal property as it is well known that the river carries that raw sewage into other's property.

Another example would be the cutting down of forests. I believe that the free market regulates this example far better than the government could. The "rich" have the money to buy up forest land and cut down the trees for a profit, however there are 2 things that happen to create natural conservation,. 1) The more trees they cut down and sell into the market, the lower the price of the lumber(trees) becomes due to a surplus 2) The more land that is bought = less land that is available (deficit), driving the cost of the forest land up. Conservation takes place naturally through the basic laws of supply & demand.

You quoted Beck without reading the speech. How did you know the context ?
Because as I stated at the beginning of this thread, I wanted to supply some quotes from this book in order to create discussion. That is exactly what I did, and that is the result we got.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Jul 10 2009, 12:24 PM Post #15
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hoosierinhogville
Jul 9 2009, 09:48 PM
I haven't read, and honestly probably won't simply due to a lack of time, but i like Beck. I don't watch his show much, but i can tolerate him a lot more than I can the O'Reillys and Olbermann of the world.

YOu know the first thing that popped into my head when i saw that first quote? Teddy Roosevelt was one of John McCAin's heros, and a guy he supposedly modeled his politics after. And you wonder why i didn't want to vote for the guy.
I have not read the book and I don't know if the Roosevelt clip was pulled from a larger quote or aaron posted just what was in the book. It is typical, however, of something aaron or Beck might do.

Here's the speech, in it's entirety. http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=501

The quote is about the 9th paragraph from the bottom. You'll notice the context of the remark. In TR's view, a few wealthy men were getting even more wealthy off of the country's natural resources. He felt they would use them up, leaving nothing behind for future generations while giving little back to the common man. Remember what was going on in this country at that time.

He also says this later on; "I believe in shaping the ends of government to protect property as well as human welfare."

While we are quoting snippets, here are a few more from that speech.

"That is one of the fundamental reasons why the special interests should be driven out of politics."

"One of the fundamental necessities in a representative government such as ours is to make certain that the men to whom the people delegate their power shall serve the people by whom they are elected, and not the special interests."

" We must drive the special interests out of politics. That is one of our tasks to-day. Every special interest is entitled to justice�full, fair, and complete�and, now, mind you, if there were any attempt by mob-violence to plunder and work harm to the special interest, whatever it may be, that I most dislike, and the wealthy man, whomsoever he may be, for whom I have the greatest contempt, I would fight for him, and you would if you were worth your salt. He should have justice. For every special interest is entitled to justice, but not one is entitled to a vote in Congress, to a voice on the bench, or to representation in any public office. The Constitution guarantees protection to property, and we must make that promise good. But it does not give the right of suffrage to any corporation."


I don't know if you know much about TR Hog, but don't judge him on one quote. There are some here who have shown their dislike for him....... He over used his power as president, powers not granted by the Constitution. He enlarged the scope of government through new regulations. Expanded our military presence around the world......on and on. But I think he was the right man in the right job at the perfect time in our history. He believed that citizens should consider the interests of the country, not before property or wealth or individual freedom, but just consider how what we do affects every other citizen.
Bob, thanks for slamming me. I don't have a record of taking quotes out of context on this board, and yes that quote came directly out of Beck's book that way.

Now, I just read the entire speech and that entire paragraph and I don't see how the context changes the message and the problem that I have with it. I'm not sure what exact problem he was facing that caused this statement, but based on what you have said, I don't find justification for singling out a particular class of people and determining that their wealth makes them subject to less of a right to personal property.

If he was talking about someone pouring raw sewage into a river which happens to be running through their personal property, or course that would be a violation of someone else's personal property as it is well known that the river carries that raw sewage into other's property.

Another example would be the cutting down of forests. I believe that the free market regulates this example far better than the government could. The "rich" have the money to buy up forest land and cut down the trees for a profit, however there are 2 things that happen to create natural conservation,. 1) The more trees they cut down and sell into the market, the lower the price of the lumber(trees) becomes due to a surplus 2) The more land that is bought = less land that is available (deficit), driving the cost of the forest land up. Conservation takes place naturally through the basic laws of supply & demand.

You quoted Beck without reading the speech. How did you know the context ?

Look, I've read a lot about TR. I'll be the first to say he was a progressive Republican who believed in more government control. There's no denying that. But i think we have to try to remember what was going on in this country at that time.

Working conditions in the early 1900s were terrible. Children were working to help keep food on the table. A large gap existed between the rich and the poor. Natural resources were being exploited. The average adult had an 8th grade education.

We are all guilty of injecting today's ideals and beliefs into history and making judgements without taking into account the events and public opinions of the times. TR reacted to, as a good president should, the problems of his day.

TR's statements regarding personal property were, IMO, a reaction to the times. The private property he refers to belonged to the special interests, the wealthy, and he believed that they were not acting in the national interest, which he obviously felt strongly about.

As for your examples......raw sewage hurts EVERYONE, not just the owner whose property it runs through. That's what TR was trying to say. Consider the ramifications of your actions on the nation, other citizens. That was not happening AT THAT TIME. In his mind, a few wealthy people were taking advantage of the resources of this country without any thought of what it was doing to the people.

I really don't need an economics lessen from you to understand how supply and demand affect conservation. I also understand how the free market.....today.....can change the behavior of companies that pollute or otherwise use business practices that hurt the environment. Once again, however, you fail to look at what was happening in the early twentieth century. There was no Action 9 to report that Company A was dumping poison into a river, hence the public wouldn't stop using Company A's products and therefore cause them to change their business practices for fear of losing business. Forests were being clear cut, with little being replanted. Strip mining and factories were polluting the rivers. Where was the motivation to stop ? America was growing, people cared about jobs, not conservation. TR looked ahead, thank God.

TR's fatal flaw,IMO, was that he thought every President would/should be like him. He had an ego and believed that he knew what was best for the country and did everything in his power to turn those beliefs in to reality. He significantly changed the power of the Presidency, not necessarily for the good. But he got shit done. Whether you agree with his policies or not, no one can deny that he was an active President.

I actually agree with you more than you think about the free market and limited government than you might believe. But I think that TR was right for the times and believe we are a much better nation for him being President.
look, I agree with Teddy's approach to special interests, although I find it ironic that his policies of sending us down a path to larger more powerful government ultimately ENABLED special interests, because they now have a more centralized zone of influence. With smaller, limited governments, special interests' influence is also limited.

Regarding Teddy's view of personal property and the fact that he felt that the rich were exploiting the resources and the poor with no regard for the population, I dig that. I believe that this is a case of doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.....it's still the wrong thing, and has proven to be so by setting (or adding to Lincoln's) precedent of larger more controlling federal government.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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