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Solving Problems
Tweet Topic Started: Dec 28 2010, 04:38 PM (980 Views)
dedicatedIUfan Dec 31 2010, 07:11 PM Post #76
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blak_rob0
Dec 31 2010, 05:10 PM
dedicatedIUfan
Dec 31 2010, 10:15 AM
blak_rob0
Dec 31 2010, 01:42 AM
BTown11
Dec 31 2010, 01:37 AM
blak_rob0
Dec 31 2010, 01:34 AM
BTown11
Dec 31 2010, 01:29 AM
blak_rob0
Dec 31 2010, 01:25 AM
BTown11
Dec 31 2010, 01:15 AM
blak_rob0
Dec 31 2010, 12:24 AM
BTown11
Dec 30 2010, 10:11 PM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
I'm sure if you hung out around the IU boards and fans you would eventually hear that every player worked their ass of in the gym. It gets overstated a lot IMO. Also they might be in the gym a lot but not working on their skills correctly. I agree with dedicated that if a guy is in the gym so much he should atleast be able to look up while he is dribbling.
Actually I know some of the players fairly well, especially the old players (2007-2008) and they were definitely lazy sacks of shit. Verdell isn't even a natural point guard, he just is forced to play that role because we have an incomplete roster.
My point is that every fan base says all their players work extremely hard even though they don't really know. I'm not saying they all actually do but using the 07-08 IU guys is not a good measuring stick anyways. Natural point guard or not if he is a guard he should be able to dribble with his head up and not turn the ball over 4 times a game.
i'm sorry but have you been watching games?
I've watched a couple. I'm basing my opinion mainly off other IU posters and stats that Verdell hasn't played up to par. If he really isn't turning the ball over around 4 times a game then I apologize.
No, VJ hasn't played up to his normal capability with the exception of a few games, but his turnovers have come not from "dribbling with his head down" but rather trying to force action once a play breaks down. to me, that exposes a larger problems, not one with ball security. seems to me the root cause of turnovers are broken down sets.

last game he had one turnover, scored 15 points on 5-12 shooting but yet no one talked about him having a better game. i wasn't trying to be an ass asking if you if you had seen games, i was just pointing out that his turnovers aren't all carless ones, to me they just expose a larger problem.
No offense taken. I just saw where I think dedicated said he couldn't dribble with his head up but yet put in a lot of time in the gym and those two things just don't add up. I kind of used him as an example for when fans overstate how hard guys work in the gym and I shouldn't of did that.

My personal opinion of VJ has always been pretty high mainly since he has seemed to always play well against Purdue. That being said he needs to find a way to keep the TOs down regardless of the reason to be a truly effective guard especially if he is being thrown into the PG position.
I think that was Evil that said something about dribbling with head down and I just eloborated about working hard in the gym. A lot of people have stated that he works hard, even DD stated that on his show. Said he was the hardest working player on the roster. I just think if a guy works that hard in the gym, there should a return on investment. A guy shouldn't go backwards and keep making the same dumb mistakes. He isn't strong with the ball when he drives and he does dribble with his head down. Also, some of his turnovers come from dumb passes, not just on drives or offensive breakdowns. I remember a bad pass in the post to Elston against Colorado and the next thing that happened after that was Elston got taken out. The pass was a very poor angle and if he were in better position to pass then he would have seen the second defender, who ended up stealing the ball, coming from the weak side. Those are examples of him not being skilled at that position. Also, if the guy was in the gym as much as everyone says, then why can't he shoot 3 pointers, free throws and handle the ball better than he has?
I agree with your statement 100% but just had to step down to btown some because I haven't watched all of IU's games and I know I've never watched any of them as close as him so he knows why Jones is turning it over better than me. If he really is the hardest working player in the gym and your assessment is correct then something isn't adding up.
Appreciate you trying to put up a defense. I have watched every game and I know there is something not adding up. I believe it is VJ's selfishness. He knew Watford was going to be the go to guy and he is more than likely pouting like the freaking baby he is.

1st half assessment of VJ and I didn't even catch the first 5 minutes: 3 turnovers, 2 defensive lapses, 2 terrible shots (could be more), and maybe 5 points. He is soft of defense and makes pour judgements on offense.
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tAmazingHoosier Jan 1 2011, 05:40 AM Post #77
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Evilempire
Dec 31 2010, 06:37 PM
brumdog44
Dec 31 2010, 06:04 PM
Evilempire
Dec 31 2010, 05:15 PM
Btown is trying to dethrone the amazinghomer as IU's blindest homer. It's actually a little sad.
www.ourloboboard.com
Still hoping Guy will save the day.............
What exactly are YOU hoping for with this team???????


and


Who in the hell would you rather be coaching our team? Because others along with myself will tell you that NONE of the elite coaches of the league wanted to inherit the mess we had at IU. It's an inevitable uphill battle for the first few years... and shit like this happens.... people like yourself exist to make snide, negative remarks about any little thing you can, and NEVER give credit where it's due.


It's funny how some of you guys were all aboard the happy train when the recruits for the future started piling up... (which effects our current roster ZERO percent), but when our team plays how we all imagined before the season, it's alarming/worrisome. Come on now guys, be real.

Coach Creans first REAL class (Watford, Creek, Hulls, Elston) are sophomores.... They aren't one and done's, they're 3-4 year players that are at IU to LEARN the game of basketball and earn a respectable degree.

We can see improvements in some of our players games. We can also see much much more room for improvement. That's the beauty of having our team at the infant stage, it's easy to see what we need to work on. Lack of leadership is the absolute #1 thing killing us, and with that team defense too. Some of you guys just aren't realistic at all anymore.
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geepergibson Jan 1 2011, 08:12 AM Post #78
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it's easy to see what we need to work on..................it is how to set a screen AND how to use that screen. every game i get so pissed because when the man with the ball at the top of the key starts to dribble, he does not set his man up properly to use the screen. there is always space between the ball handler and the screener. the ball handler needs to "rub" his man off the screen. i was taught how to use a screen back in seventh grade when i first started organized basketball. how is it that these college athletes do not? can i get everyone to repeat after me? FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS.
Edited by geepergibson, Jan 1 2011, 04:05 PM.
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dedicatedIUfan Jan 1 2011, 10:09 AM Post #79
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geepergibson
Jan 1 2011, 08:12 AM
it's easy to see what we need to work on..................it is how to set a screen AND how to use that screen. every game i get so pissed because when the man with the ball at the top of the key starts to dribble, he does not set his man up properly to use the screen. there is always space between the ball handler and the screener. the ball handler needs to "rub" his man off the screen. i was taught how to use a screen back in seventh grade when i first started organized basketball. how is it that these college athletes do not? can a get everyone to repeat after me? FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS.
That is funny that you say that. I was watching last nights game and DD stated the very same thing. Guys like Pritchard, Elston, and Capo getting silly fouls on the screens, DD said it was more the ballhandlers responsibility to set his man up and wait for the screen to be set. VJ is the worst at it and it is usually him handling the ball when TP, DE, and Capo draw a foul for a moving screen.

There is a lot of things that need fixed on this team and the first think that needs to be be developed is leadership along with an inside pressence.

We do have some bright spots: Watford, Hulls, VO, and Rivers have all played consistently decent all year long. We just need to get some others to go along with them. Another incouraging note is that our turnovers are starting to come down. We only had 14 in last nights game and about 25% of them were from one player. If we can get him to start respecting the ball, then we will have better possessions and lower turnovers.
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tAmazingHoosier Jan 1 2011, 02:54 PM Post #80
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dedicatedIUfan
Jan 1 2011, 10:09 AM
geepergibson
Jan 1 2011, 08:12 AM
it's easy to see what we need to work on..................it is how to set a screen AND how to use that screen. every game i get so pissed because when the man with the ball at the top of the key starts to dribble, he does not set his man up properly to use the screen. there is always space between the ball handler and the screener. the ball handler needs to "rub" his man off the screen. i was taught how to use a screen back in seventh grade when i first started organized basketball. how is it that these college athletes do not? can a get everyone to repeat after me? FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS.
That is funny that you say that. I was watching last nights game and DD stated the very same thing. Guys like Pritchard, Elston, and Capo getting silly fouls on the screens, DD said it was more the ballhandlers responsibility to set his man up and wait for the screen to be set. VJ is the worst at it and it is usually him handling the ball when TP, DE, and Capo draw a foul for a moving screen.

There is a lot of things that need fixed on this team and the first think that needs to be be developed is leadership along with an inside pressence.

We do have some bright spots: Watford, Hulls, VO, and Rivers have all played consistently decent all year long. We just need to get some others to go along with them. Another incouraging note is that our turnovers are starting to come down. We only had 14 in last nights game and about 25% of them were from one player. If we can get him to start respecting the ball, then we will have better possessions and lower turnovers.
I wonder who committed the "25%" :ermm:
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Evilempire Jan 1 2011, 03:54 PM Post #81
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geepergibson
Jan 1 2011, 08:12 AM
it's easy to see what we need to work on..................it is how to set a screen AND how to use that screen. every game i get so pissed because when the man with the ball at the top of the key starts to dribble, he does not set his man up properly to use the screen. there is always space between the ball handler and the screener. the ball handler needs to "rub" his man off the screen. i was taught how to use a screen back in seventh grade when i first started organized basketball. how is it that these college athletes do not? can a get everyone to repeat after me? FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS.
Everything you just said falls back on the coaches. At some point you have to say screw winning the game, if you guys aren't going to play the game the right way then you can pick splinters out of your ass for the rest of the season. The biggest gripe I have with Crean is that he isn't holding guys accountable for the basic stuff. Effort, running a simple pick and roll, rotating in a zone......what he's doing just baffles me.

He has done a very good job the last 6 months or so of recruiting, but that's about it. I see almost nothing in regards to player development. He's going to need all the talent he can get just to compete with the top tier coaches in the BT......cause he's not one of them.
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dedicatedIUfan Jan 1 2011, 04:43 PM Post #82
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Evilempire
Jan 1 2011, 03:54 PM
geepergibson
Jan 1 2011, 08:12 AM
it's easy to see what we need to work on..................it is how to set a screen AND how to use that screen. every game i get so pissed because when the man with the ball at the top of the key starts to dribble, he does not set his man up properly to use the screen. there is always space between the ball handler and the screener. the ball handler needs to "rub" his man off the screen. i was taught how to use a screen back in seventh grade when i first started organized basketball. how is it that these college athletes do not? can a get everyone to repeat after me? FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS.
Everything you just said falls back on the coaches. At some point you have to say screw winning the game, if you guys aren't going to play the game the right way then you can pick splinters out of your ass for the rest of the season. The biggest gripe I have with Crean is that he isn't holding guys accountable for the basic stuff. Effort, running a simple pick and roll, rotating in a zone......what he's doing just baffles me.

He has done a very good job the last 6 months or so of recruiting, but that's about it. I see almost nothing in regards to player development. He's going to need all the talent he can get just to compete with the top tier coaches in the BT......cause he's not one of them.
+1

I am not bashing Crean, but what most of what Evil stated above is pretty much how I feel too. It is frustrating enough not to win, but if you aren't going to hold guys accountable then you aren't doing your job as a coach. I agree, since we aren't going to win the B10 and probably will finish below .500 and another year with out any postseason tournament, then screw the season and start playing the guys that are doing the right things and put guys on the bench until they finally get it.

There is no doubt about it, the guy can flat out recruit, a great cheerleader on the sidline, and his offensive schemes are great (but only if you have the personnel to run them). Butthe guy lacks in making that tough call with players by setting them on the bench. I realize he may be getting caught up with putting what he feels is the best players on the floor and trying to win the game, but that isn't working. Some of these guys have it in their heads that they don't have to work hard and continue to improve because Crean will not do anything about it.

Where does the motivation come from?
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BTown11 Jan 1 2011, 04:49 PM Post #83
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