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IU v Minny game thread
Tweet Topic Started: Jan 4 2011, 07:23 PM (1,087 Views)
Evilempire Jan 7 2011, 04:05 PM Post #91
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dreachon
Jan 7 2011, 01:32 PM
And Verdell Jones himself is shooting 80 points higher this year. It hasn't ALL been bad.
Shooting 80 points higher?.......not sure what you mean by that.
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dreachon Jan 7 2011, 04:06 PM Post #92
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Evilempire
Jan 7 2011, 04:04 PM
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Jan 7 2011, 10:19 AM
Evilempire
Jan 7 2011, 12:24 AM
It's pretty sad when a coach who is supposedly known for being great at developing guards can't get his 3rd year lead guard to play with any more basketball IQ than he did as a Senior in high school. Not asking VAG to be All-BT....just show that Crean has at least taught you something.
Well said!!! :cheers:

I do think Crean has a lot of good qualitys, especially in recruiting and relating to players. I haven't seen the player development thing yet, but some of it does fall on the individual player as well. But if that player isn't developing like he should, to the pine he goes.
When bitching about player development under Crean you'll use Jones all day but ignore the fact that Hulls, Watford, Elston, and Rivers are all playing at a higher level this year. If Crean gets some blame for Jones' lack of progression, he gets some credit for those aforementioned players improvement, too.
To be fair, he let Elston rot on the bench last year so who knows how good he would have been.
Actually I heard Elston didn't have the right attitude and so Crean benched him in order to send a message. :D
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Evilempire Jan 7 2011, 04:08 PM Post #93
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dreachon
Jan 7 2011, 04:06 PM
Evilempire
Jan 7 2011, 04:04 PM
mongo
Jan 7 2011, 11:07 AM
dedicatedIUfan
Jan 7 2011, 10:19 AM
Evilempire
Jan 7 2011, 12:24 AM
It's pretty sad when a coach who is supposedly known for being great at developing guards can't get his 3rd year lead guard to play with any more basketball IQ than he did as a Senior in high school. Not asking VAG to be All-BT....just show that Crean has at least taught you something.
Well said!!! :cheers:

I do think Crean has a lot of good qualitys, especially in recruiting and relating to players. I haven't seen the player development thing yet, but some of it does fall on the individual player as well. But if that player isn't developing like he should, to the pine he goes.
When bitching about player development under Crean you'll use Jones all day but ignore the fact that Hulls, Watford, Elston, and Rivers are all playing at a higher level this year. If Crean gets some blame for Jones' lack of progression, he gets some credit for those aforementioned players improvement, too.
To be fair, he let Elston rot on the bench last year so who knows how good he would have been.
Actually I heard Elston didn't have the right attitude and so Crean benched him in order to send a message. :D
Ha, that's the one thing we know for sure didn't happen.
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brumdog44 Jan 7 2011, 04:16 PM Post #94
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The guy picked last in gym class
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Evilempire
Jan 7 2011, 04:05 PM
dreachon
Jan 7 2011, 01:32 PM
And Verdell Jones himself is shooting 80 points higher this year. It hasn't ALL been bad.
Shooting 80 points higher?.......not sure what you mean by that.
He shot .399 last year and is shooting .479 this year.

If we are talking development:

Jones is up 8% on field goals
Watford is up 6%
Rivers is up 13%
Elston is up 12%
Hulls is up 15%

Across the board, everyone's shooting is up except Creek's....and it's obvious he doesn't possess the same athleticism that he did before.
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BTown11 Jan 7 2011, 04:23 PM Post #95
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Evilempire
Jan 7 2011, 04:08 PM
dreachon
Jan 7 2011, 04:06 PM
Evilempire
Jan 7 2011, 04:04 PM
mongo
Jan 7 2011, 11:07 AM
dedicatedIUfan
Jan 7 2011, 10:19 AM
Evilempire
Jan 7 2011, 12:24 AM
It's pretty sad when a coach who is supposedly known for being great at developing guards can't get his 3rd year lead guard to play with any more basketball IQ than he did as a Senior in high school. Not asking VAG to be All-BT....just show that Crean has at least taught you something.
Well said!!! :cheers:

I do think Crean has a lot of good qualitys, especially in recruiting and relating to players. I haven't seen the player development thing yet, but some of it does fall on the individual player as well. But if that player isn't developing like he should, to the pine he goes.
When bitching about player development under Crean you'll use Jones all day but ignore the fact that Hulls, Watford, Elston, and Rivers are all playing at a higher level this year. If Crean gets some blame for Jones' lack of progression, he gets some credit for those aforementioned players improvement, too.
To be fair, he let Elston rot on the bench last year so who knows how good he would have been.
Actually I heard Elston didn't have the right attitude and so Crean benched him in order to send a message. :D
Ha, that's the one thing we know for sure didn't happen.
actually i believe both elston and crean said that was the case last year. i'd find the video, but i'm pretty sure it was on ITH after the home Northwestern game last season.
Death to Signatures.
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Evilempire Jan 7 2011, 04:25 PM Post #96
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OK, I see what he means. I would have said his FG% went up 8 percent but whatever. I have 2 issues with using that as a barometer of 'improvement'.

1. Most of the stats were accumulated against complete garbage competition. Look no further than Watford shooting somewhere around 30% against 'real' teams.

2. The season isn't over yet, I would think that as the season goes on and your legs get 'tired', your FG% tends to drop a little. Throw in the fact that real competition will probably bring them down as well. I will be interested to see how their end of season stats compare to last season.....and especially how they compare from right now till the end of the season.
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BTown11 Jan 7 2011, 04:27 PM Post #97
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nm.
Edited by BTown11, Jan 7 2011, 04:27 PM.
Death to Signatures.
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dreachon Jan 7 2011, 04:44 PM Post #98
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Evilempire
Jan 7 2011, 04:25 PM
OK, I see what he means. I would have said his FG% went up 8 percent but whatever. I have 2 issues with using that as a barometer of 'improvement'.

1. Most of the stats were accumulated against complete garbage competition. Look no further than Watford shooting somewhere around 30% against 'real' teams.

2. The season isn't over yet, I would think that as the season goes on and your legs get 'tired', your FG% tends to drop a little. Throw in the fact that real competition will probably bring them down as well. I will be interested to see how their end of season stats compare to last season.....and especially how they compare from right now till the end of the season.
I thought that was a pretty common expression? Maybe more so in baseball. Like that guy hit 50 points higher this year.

Anyways. HUGE difference between 399 and 479. Crappy teams can't account for that much change by themselves. If Jones's FG percentage ended up below .400 by the end of Big Ten play I'd be shocked.
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obatskii Jan 7 2011, 04:50 PM Post #99
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I knew what you meant, but I don't think that's a common basketball expression. At least not in my neck of the woods.
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"They say it takes a village to raise a family. Well, it took a nation to rebuild a program. THANK YOU HOOSIER NATION!" -Tom Crean

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mongo Jan 7 2011, 05:39 PM Post #100
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Evilempire
Jan 7 2011, 04:04 PM
mongo
Jan 7 2011, 11:07 AM
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Jan 7 2011, 10:19 AM
Evilempire
Jan 7 2011, 12:24 AM
It's pretty sad when a coach who is supposedly known for being great at developing guards can't get his 3rd year lead guard to play with any more basketball IQ than he did as a Senior in high school. Not asking VAG to be All-BT....just show that Crean has at least taught you something.
Well said!!! :cheers:

I do think Crean has a lot of good qualitys, especially in recruiting and relating to players. I haven't seen the player development thing yet, but some of it does fall on the individual player as well. But if that player isn't developing like he should, to the pine he goes.
When bitching about player development under Crean you'll use Jones all day but ignore the fact that Hulls, Watford, Elston, and Rivers are all playing at a higher level this year. If Crean gets some blame for Jones' lack of progression, he gets some credit for those aforementioned players improvement, too.
To be fair, he let Elston rot on the bench last year so who knows how good he would have been.

Watford has only been good against the supercrappy teams IU played......he has been awful against all other teams...not sure I would be using him as a guy who has improved a ton.

Hulls is playing very well offensively, and he is getting to play a lot of off guard like he should. Last year, Crean moved Verdell to the wing and had Hulls/Rivers playing a lot of point.

Rivers has also improved, no doubt about it.
Part of the problem with Watford is the "supercrappy" teams are smaller which is allowing him to play at his natural position. Unfortunately our lack of size to matchup against good teams is once again forcing him to drift inside. Watford should benefit tremendously once Zeller arrives. Thats just my assessment.
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"Son, if you really want something in this life you have to work hard for it. Now quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers."
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BTown11 Jan 7 2011, 05:45 PM Post #101
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Jan 7 2011, 05:39 PM
Evilempire
Jan 7 2011, 04:04 PM
mongo
Jan 7 2011, 11:07 AM
dedicatedIUfan
Jan 7 2011, 10:19 AM
Evilempire
Jan 7 2011, 12:24 AM
It's pretty sad when a coach who is supposedly known for being great at developing guards can't get his 3rd year lead guard to play with any more basketball IQ than he did as a Senior in high school. Not asking VAG to be All-BT....just show that Crean has at least taught you something.
Well said!!! :cheers:

I do think Crean has a lot of good qualitys, especially in recruiting and relating to players. I haven't seen the player development thing yet, but some of it does fall on the individual player as well. But if that player isn't developing like he should, to the pine he goes.
When bitching about player development under Crean you'll use Jones all day but ignore the fact that Hulls, Watford, Elston, and Rivers are all playing at a higher level this year. If Crean gets some blame for Jones' lack of progression, he gets some credit for those aforementioned players improvement, too.
To be fair, he let Elston rot on the bench last year so who knows how good he would have been.

Watford has only been good against the supercrappy teams IU played......he has been awful against all other teams...not sure I would be using him as a guy who has improved a ton.

Hulls is playing very well offensively, and he is getting to play a lot of off guard like he should. Last year, Crean moved Verdell to the wing and had Hulls/Rivers playing a lot of point.

Rivers has also improved, no doubt about it.
Part of the problem with Watford is the "supercrappy" teams are smaller which is allowing him to play at his natural position. Unfortunately our lack of size to matchup against good teams is once again forcing him to drift inside. Watford should benefit tremendously once Zeller arrives. Thats just my assessment.
Not to make excuses, Watford hasn't played well lately, but he's also had back spasms, so we can't properly judge his play until he's healthy again. that, and you're completely right. watford is far better at the 3 than the four. he played predominately the three against OSU to good results.
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mongo Jan 7 2011, 05:49 PM Post #102
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I was unaware of the back spasms til you posted that.
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tAmazingHoosier Jan 7 2011, 06:28 PM Post #103
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I love how some of you assume Coach Crean has ALL this extra time to develop EACH player individually until they're fine tuned to how you guys would like them to be.... to bad this is the real world, and that's not how it goes down....



Not only has Crean brought in back to back top 10 classes in this past offseason, he's got the team playing hard every fucking game. The thing is, nobody knows why Verdell is having so many problems, but I can tell you, that somebody touching the ball as much as Verdell has to is GOING to have their fair share of turnovers. BUT, you can't put the individual development of ONE player 100% on Coach Crean. That's unfair, and quite honestly pretty hilarious. Since Tom Crean can control VAG's confidence and own self drive?

Why do you think Oladipo has started and is playing up there with everyone else in minutes now? He HAS the attitude to step in as a freshman and make a difference. You don't see him with confidence issues out there...... Now look at Verdell and Pritchard, BOTH in the same class of , meh, so so talented players. You see obvious CONFIDENCE issues in parts of their games....


Ok, so confidence doesn't play THAT big of a roll in your game in the Big Ten? Psshh. Save it. Some things Tom Crean can HELP a player get better at, and some things Tom Crean can't. That's the fact of the matter, so instead of putting perhaps personal issues of players on Coach Creans list of things to fix, look at it realistically and realize with what we have (basically the same team as last year adding Oladipo/Sheehey) we've made tons of strides already under coach Crean.

Saying he isn't the right guy in his 3rd year when his "upperclassmen" class includes a "formidable" big man like PRITCHARD....... talk about pre-mature.
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BTown11 Jan 7 2011, 08:14 PM Post #104
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amazing -

the v shop has your new style adidas jerseys. lots of Watford and Oladipo and Hulls.
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dedicatedIUfan Jan 7 2011, 09:15 PM Post #105
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Jan 7 2011, 11:07 AM
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Evilempire
Jan 7 2011, 12:24 AM
It's pretty sad when a coach who is supposedly known for being great at developing guards can't get his 3rd year lead guard to play with any more basketball IQ than he did as a Senior in high school. Not asking VAG to be All-BT....just show that Crean has at least taught you something.
Well said!!! :cheers:

I do think Crean has a lot of good qualitys, especially in recruiting and relating to players. I haven't seen the player development thing yet, but some of it does fall on the individual player as well. But if that player isn't developing like he should, to the pine he goes.
When bitching about player development under Crean you'll use Jones all day but ignore the fact that Hulls, Watford, Elston, and Rivers are all playing at a higher level this year. If Crean gets some blame for Jones' lack of progression, he gets some credit for those aforementioned players improvement, too.
I have given him credit and I also said that some of it has to be on the player. Crean may not be pressing the right motivation button.
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