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About last night...; IU vs Minny
Tweet Topic Started: Jan 5 2011, 09:44 AM (834 Views)
boilergrad01 Jan 5 2011, 06:12 PM Post #16
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Purdue Fans circle up.

If Iu fans are happy with last nights game then let them be happy. They can say IU played hard was resillent, got bad calls, and played great D.
Nothing beats an Astronaut
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mongo Jan 5 2011, 06:12 PM Post #17
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Onto IU: this team needs to start winning some of these close games and put together 40 minutes of good ball, but we have definitely shown resiliency in some of these games, and when we're playing well the product on the court is definitely better than we saw last year.
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Bobobinc Jan 5 2011, 07:07 PM Post #18
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Jan 5 2011, 06:10 PM
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Jan 5 2011, 02:28 PM
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Jan 5 2011, 02:07 PM
I've said it a few times over the years on here, but it seems like we have a huge problem closing out games and playing well in the last 5 minutes under Crean. Is it his coaching or does our lack of talent become more exposed at the end?
talent. actually we came back in the last 2 minutes last night. this years' team is definitely more resilient, but not necessarily to greater results on the W/L line.
You made two wide open threes in the last 20 seconds. Missed 5 shots before that back to the 3:00 mark. The team may be more resilient this year but last night wasn't an example of it.
This team obviously showed some flaws last night, but you can't tell me they weren't resilient.
Oh course he can. He's a Purdue fan. They're obviously loving the hell out of this kicking us while we're down.
I should have kept my mouth shut.

I was referring to making two open threes in the last 18 seconds, not to their performance in the game. They left the guys open at desperation time and to their credit they made the shots.

Say what you will Mongo but I haven't been kicking.
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panchen_lama Jan 5 2011, 07:10 PM Post #19
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at some point court experience needs to catch up and surpass the idea that we are young. i didn't look up everyone, but VJIII has played some 2,200 minutes by this point. sure, during the same stretch JJ and moore up the road have logged 300 to 500 more (along with a handful more games), but at the same time VJ's minutes well surpass the likes of taylor and leuer at wisky, who are both playing at a very high level.

yes, other factors have to be considered, such as who one is up against in practice, the absence of a post game, etal...but come this time next year, if not sooner, i don't see how we can be playing the youth/inexperience card at every possible convenience. that being said, i hope we continue to compete at the level we did last nite. if so, i might be somewhat enthused about our maturation going into next year...
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BTown11 Jan 5 2011, 07:10 PM Post #20
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how about this for coaching:

after scoring 7 out of the gate, Crean adjusted and Mbakwe scored 11 on the game. Iverson and Sampson were kept quiet too.
Death to Signatures.
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panchen_lama Jan 5 2011, 07:13 PM Post #21
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how about this for coaching:

after scoring 7 out of the gate, Crean adjusted and Mbakwe scored 11 on the game. Iverson and Sampson were kept quiet too.
i'll go on record as saying i thought crean coached a great game for the most part.

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mongo Jan 5 2011, 07:25 PM Post #22
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Jan 5 2011, 05:21 PM
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Jan 5 2011, 02:28 PM
aaronk2727
Jan 5 2011, 02:07 PM
I've said it a few times over the years on here, but it seems like we have a huge problem closing out games and playing well in the last 5 minutes under Crean. Is it his coaching or does our lack of talent become more exposed at the end?
talent. actually we came back in the last 2 minutes last night. this years' team is definitely more resilient, but not necessarily to greater results on the W/L line.
You made two wide open threes in the last 20 seconds. Missed 5 shots before that back to the 3:00 mark. The team may be more resilient this year but last night wasn't an example of it.
This team obviously showed some flaws last night, but you can't tell me they weren't resilient.
Oh course he can. He's a Purdue fan. They're obviously loving the hell out of this kicking us while we're down.
I should have kept my mouth shut.

I was referring to making two open threes in the last 18 seconds, not to their performance in the game. They left the guys open at desperation time and to their credit they made the shots.

Say what you will Mongo but I haven't been kicking.
You haven't Bob, I apologize. Its just frustrating and when I have a short fuse already its easier for Purdue comments to get under my skin. No hard feelings.
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dreachon Jan 5 2011, 07:29 PM Post #23
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Jan 5 2011, 07:10 PM
at some point court experience needs to catch up and surpass the idea that we are young. i didn't look up everyone, but VJIII has played some 2,200 minutes by this point. sure, during the same stretch JJ and moore up the road have logged 300 to 500 more (along with a handful more games), but at the same time VJ's minutes well surpass the likes of taylor and leuer at wisky, who are both playing at a very high level.

yes, other factors have to be considered, such as who one is up against in practice, the absence of a post game, etal...but come this time next year, if not sooner, i don't see how we can be playing the youth/inexperience card at every possible convenience. that being said, i hope we continue to compete at the level we did last nite. if so, i might be somewhat enthused about our maturation going into next year...
Here's our experience rankings in the last 3 years.

343
339
283 - this year

Part of the problem/awesomeness is that the freshman coming in are better than the upperclassmen. So while this is Crean's 3rd year, we haven't gained a lot in the experience department because we keep giving minutes to the freshmen and sophomores. Sure there are good inexperienced teams, but we are not building a program like Kentucky and I don't think anyone here really wants to anyways.
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Bobobinc Jan 5 2011, 07:33 PM Post #24
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Jan 5 2011, 07:25 PM
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Jan 5 2011, 06:10 PM
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Jan 5 2011, 06:08 PM
Bobobinc
Jan 5 2011, 05:21 PM
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Jan 5 2011, 02:28 PM
aaronk2727
Jan 5 2011, 02:07 PM
I've said it a few times over the years on here, but it seems like we have a huge problem closing out games and playing well in the last 5 minutes under Crean. Is it his coaching or does our lack of talent become more exposed at the end?
talent. actually we came back in the last 2 minutes last night. this years' team is definitely more resilient, but not necessarily to greater results on the W/L line.
You made two wide open threes in the last 20 seconds. Missed 5 shots before that back to the 3:00 mark. The team may be more resilient this year but last night wasn't an example of it.
This team obviously showed some flaws last night, but you can't tell me they weren't resilient.
Oh course he can. He's a Purdue fan. They're obviously loving the hell out of this kicking us while we're down.
I should have kept my mouth shut.

I was referring to making two open threes in the last 18 seconds, not to their performance in the game. They left the guys open at desperation time and to their credit they made the shots.

Say what you will Mongo but I haven't been kicking.
You haven't Bob, I apologize. Its just frustrating and when I have a short fuse already its easier for Purdue comments to get under my skin. No hard feelings.
No problem. That's exactly why I said I should have kept my mouth shut. I know you guys don't want to hear it from Purdue fans.......it's hard to for a Purdue guy to criticize IU and still sound objective. Better to just stay out of the conversation.
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panchen_lama Jan 5 2011, 07:40 PM Post #25
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Jan 5 2011, 07:29 PM
panchen_lama
Jan 5 2011, 07:10 PM
at some point court experience needs to catch up and surpass the idea that we are young. i didn't look up everyone, but VJIII has played some 2,200 minutes by this point. sure, during the same stretch JJ and moore up the road have logged 300 to 500 more (along with a handful more games), but at the same time VJ's minutes well surpass the likes of taylor and leuer at wisky, who are both playing at a very high level.

yes, other factors have to be considered, such as who one is up against in practice, the absence of a post game, etal...but come this time next year, if not sooner, i don't see how we can be playing the youth/inexperience card at every possible convenience. that being said, i hope we continue to compete at the level we did last nite. if so, i might be somewhat enthused about our maturation going into next year...
Here's our experience rankings in the last 3 years.

343
339
283 - this year

Part of the problem/awesomeness is that the freshman coming in are better than the upperclassmen. So while this is Crean's 3rd year, we haven't gained a lot in the experience department because we keep giving minutes to the freshmen and sophomores. Sure there are good inexperienced teams, but we are not building a program like Kentucky and I don't think anyone here really wants to anyways.
yes, you make some good points. it is, however, also a function of how experience is calculated.

http://www.umhoops.com/2010/07/19/big-ten-returning-minutes-2010-11/

taken this way, the hoosiers are not as bad off...returning nearly 88 percent of our court time from last season along with majority contributions. (other calculations are valuable too, but probably a pool of findings serves our purposes best)

experience comes in different means and forms. i agree i don't want to "rebuild" like UK, but i also want to see some of the experience our guys have accrued start to pay off at critical junctures. and, by some measures at least, at this point some of our guys have logged some solid experience...
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dreachon Jan 5 2011, 08:00 PM Post #26
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panchen_lama
Jan 5 2011, 07:40 PM
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Jan 5 2011, 07:29 PM
panchen_lama
Jan 5 2011, 07:10 PM
at some point court experience needs to catch up and surpass the idea that we are young. i didn't look up everyone, but VJIII has played some 2,200 minutes by this point. sure, during the same stretch JJ and moore up the road have logged 300 to 500 more (along with a handful more games), but at the same time VJ's minutes well surpass the likes of taylor and leuer at wisky, who are both playing at a very high level.

yes, other factors have to be considered, such as who one is up against in practice, the absence of a post game, etal...but come this time next year, if not sooner, i don't see how we can be playing the youth/inexperience card at every possible convenience. that being said, i hope we continue to compete at the level we did last nite. if so, i might be somewhat enthused about our maturation going into next year...
Here's our experience rankings in the last 3 years.

343
339
283 - this year

Part of the problem/awesomeness is that the freshman coming in are better than the upperclassmen. So while this is Crean's 3rd year, we haven't gained a lot in the experience department because we keep giving minutes to the freshmen and sophomores. Sure there are good inexperienced teams, but we are not building a program like Kentucky and I don't think anyone here really wants to anyways.
yes, you make some good points. it is, however, also a function of how experience is calculated.

http://www.umhoops.com/2010/07/19/big-ten-returning-minutes-2010-11/

taken this way, the hoosiers are not as bad off...returning nearly 88 percent of our court time from last season along with majority contributions. (other calculations are valuable too, but probably a pool of findings serves our purposes best)

experience comes in different means and forms. i agree i don't want to "rebuild" like UK, but i also want to see some of the experience our guys have accrued start to pay off at critical junctures. and, by some measures at least, at this point some of our guys have logged some solid experience...
We may return a lot of minutes, but the calculations I'm using are talking about minutes played this season by class. A guy like Pritchard counts as returning 20 min/game from last year, but he's playing less than 15 this year. Rivers returns over 28 minutes/game but is barely playing 20 this year. Who cares how many minutes are returning if those guys aren't on the floor? If we're talking about experience on the floor, then IU is 283rd in the country so far this year.

When will freshman and sophomore mistakes quit being a problem? When freshmen and sophomores aren't getting the majority of playing time. It's as simple as that.
Edited by dreachon, Jan 5 2011, 08:01 PM.
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panchen_lama Jan 5 2011, 08:05 PM Post #27
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dreachon
Jan 5 2011, 08:00 PM
panchen_lama
Jan 5 2011, 07:40 PM
dreachon
Jan 5 2011, 07:29 PM
panchen_lama
Jan 5 2011, 07:10 PM
at some point court experience needs to catch up and surpass the idea that we are young. i didn't look up everyone, but VJIII has played some 2,200 minutes by this point. sure, during the same stretch JJ and moore up the road have logged 300 to 500 more (along with a handful more games), but at the same time VJ's minutes well surpass the likes of taylor and leuer at wisky, who are both playing at a very high level.

yes, other factors have to be considered, such as who one is up against in practice, the absence of a post game, etal...but come this time next year, if not sooner, i don't see how we can be playing the youth/inexperience card at every possible convenience. that being said, i hope we continue to compete at the level we did last nite. if so, i might be somewhat enthused about our maturation going into next year...
Here's our experience rankings in the last 3 years.

343
339
283 - this year

Part of the problem/awesomeness is that the freshman coming in are better than the upperclassmen. So while this is Crean's 3rd year, we haven't gained a lot in the experience department because we keep giving minutes to the freshmen and sophomores. Sure there are good inexperienced teams, but we are not building a program like Kentucky and I don't think anyone here really wants to anyways.
yes, you make some good points. it is, however, also a function of how experience is calculated.

http://www.umhoops.com/2010/07/19/big-ten-returning-minutes-2010-11/

taken this way, the hoosiers are not as bad off...returning nearly 88 percent of our court time from last season along with majority contributions. (other calculations are valuable too, but probably a pool of findings serves our purposes best)

experience comes in different means and forms. i agree i don't want to "rebuild" like UK, but i also want to see some of the experience our guys have accrued start to pay off at critical junctures. and, by some measures at least, at this point some of our guys have logged some solid experience...
We may return a lot of minutes, but the calculations I'm using are talking about minutes played this season by class. A guy like Pritchard counts as returning 20 min/game from last year, but he's playing less than 15 this year. Rivers returns over 28 minutes/game but is barely playing 20 this year. Who cares how many minutes are returning if those guys aren't on the floor? If we're talking about experience on the floor, then IU is 283rd in the country so far this year.

When will freshman and sophomore mistakes quit being a problem? When freshmen and sophomores aren't getting the majority of playing time. It's as simple as that.
for me, your analysis and conclusions are too simplistic, the solution to which may not be as necessarily positively correlated as you indicate.

but, to each their own.

:goiu:
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dreachon Jan 5 2011, 08:14 PM Post #28
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panchen_lama
Jan 5 2011, 08:05 PM
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Jan 5 2011, 08:00 PM
panchen_lama
Jan 5 2011, 07:40 PM
dreachon
Jan 5 2011, 07:29 PM
panchen_lama
Jan 5 2011, 07:10 PM
at some point court experience needs to catch up and surpass the idea that we are young. i didn't look up everyone, but VJIII has played some 2,200 minutes by this point. sure, during the same stretch JJ and moore up the road have logged 300 to 500 more (along with a handful more games), but at the same time VJ's minutes well surpass the likes of taylor and leuer at wisky, who are both playing at a very high level.

yes, other factors have to be considered, such as who one is up against in practice, the absence of a post game, etal...but come this time next year, if not sooner, i don't see how we can be playing the youth/inexperience card at every possible convenience. that being said, i hope we continue to compete at the level we did last nite. if so, i might be somewhat enthused about our maturation going into next year...
Here's our experience rankings in the last 3 years.

343
339
283 - this year

Part of the problem/awesomeness is that the freshman coming in are better than the upperclassmen. So while this is Crean's 3rd year, we haven't gained a lot in the experience department because we keep giving minutes to the freshmen and sophomores. Sure there are good inexperienced teams, but we are not building a program like Kentucky and I don't think anyone here really wants to anyways.
yes, you make some good points. it is, however, also a function of how experience is calculated.

http://www.umhoops.com/2010/07/19/big-ten-returning-minutes-2010-11/

taken this way, the hoosiers are not as bad off...returning nearly 88 percent of our court time from last season along with majority contributions. (other calculations are valuable too, but probably a pool of findings serves our purposes best)

experience comes in different means and forms. i agree i don't want to "rebuild" like UK, but i also want to see some of the experience our guys have accrued start to pay off at critical junctures. and, by some measures at least, at this point some of our guys have logged some solid experience...
We may return a lot of minutes, but the calculations I'm using are talking about minutes played this season by class. A guy like Pritchard counts as returning 20 min/game from last year, but he's playing less than 15 this year. Rivers returns over 28 minutes/game but is barely playing 20 this year. Who cares how many minutes are returning if those guys aren't on the floor? If we're talking about experience on the floor, then IU is 283rd in the country so far this year.

When will freshman and sophomore mistakes quit being a problem? When freshmen and sophomores aren't getting the majority of playing time. It's as simple as that.
for me, your analysis and conclusions are too simplistic, the solution to which may not be as necessarily positively correlated as you indicate.

but, to each their own.

:goiu:
Occam's Razor my friend. The simplest explanation is usually the right one ;)
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panchen_lama Jan 5 2011, 08:24 PM Post #29
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Jan 5 2011, 08:14 PM
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Jan 5 2011, 08:05 PM
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Jan 5 2011, 08:00 PM
panchen_lama
Jan 5 2011, 07:40 PM
dreachon
Jan 5 2011, 07:29 PM
panchen_lama
Jan 5 2011, 07:10 PM
at some point court experience needs to catch up and surpass the idea that we are young. i didn't look up everyone, but VJIII has played some 2,200 minutes by this point. sure, during the same stretch JJ and moore up the road have logged 300 to 500 more (along with a handful more games), but at the same time VJ's minutes well surpass the likes of taylor and leuer at wisky, who are both playing at a very high level.

yes, other factors have to be considered, such as who one is up against in practice, the absence of a post game, etal...but come this time next year, if not sooner, i don't see how we can be playing the youth/inexperience card at every possible convenience. that being said, i hope we continue to compete at the level we did last nite. if so, i might be somewhat enthused about our maturation going into next year...
Here's our experience rankings in the last 3 years.

343
339
283 - this year

Part of the problem/awesomeness is that the freshman coming in are better than the upperclassmen. So while this is Crean's 3rd year, we haven't gained a lot in the experience department because we keep giving minutes to the freshmen and sophomores. Sure there are good inexperienced teams, but we are not building a program like Kentucky and I don't think anyone here really wants to anyways.
yes, you make some good points. it is, however, also a function of how experience is calculated.

http://www.umhoops.com/2010/07/19/big-ten-returning-minutes-2010-11/

taken this way, the hoosiers are not as bad off...returning nearly 88 percent of our court time from last season along with majority contributions. (other calculations are valuable too, but probably a pool of findings serves our purposes best)

experience comes in different means and forms. i agree i don't want to "rebuild" like UK, but i also want to see some of the experience our guys have accrued start to pay off at critical junctures. and, by some measures at least, at this point some of our guys have logged some solid experience...
We may return a lot of minutes, but the calculations I'm using are talking about minutes played this season by class. A guy like Pritchard counts as returning 20 min/game from last year, but he's playing less than 15 this year. Rivers returns over 28 minutes/game but is barely playing 20 this year. Who cares how many minutes are returning if those guys aren't on the floor? If we're talking about experience on the floor, then IU is 283rd in the country so far this year.

When will freshman and sophomore mistakes quit being a problem? When freshmen and sophomores aren't getting the majority of playing time. It's as simple as that.
for me, your analysis and conclusions are too simplistic, the solution to which may not be as necessarily positively correlated as you indicate.

but, to each their own.

:goiu:
Occam's Razor my friend. The simplest explanation is usually the right one ;)
:D ...like it.

or, as it was once put to me - and not so much as a compliment at the time...K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid).

:chug:
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dedicatedIUfan Jan 5 2011, 09:25 PM Post #30
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Jan 5 2011, 03:22 PM
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Jan 5 2011, 03:20 PM
goosta
Jan 5 2011, 09:44 AM
We had 6 turnovers....6.
And 4 of those were from one player. ;)

Overall, the game was good to watch and I felt we should have won the game. It was nice to be in a game on the road for once with a chance to win at the end. Not happy with the lose though, unlike Btown.
4 by one player is cherry picking the box score. bottom line is that turnovers did not interrupt play whatsoever last night. actually, if a team has 0 turnovers it usually means they weren't taking enough chances. there's a difference between a turnover trying to make a play and an unforced turnover.
I think you are cherry picking. Any turnover, IMO, is a bad turnover no matter if you think it didn't have an affect on the game. The guy made an ill advised pass in the late minutes and when we needed a basket drove the baseline into a double team and try to shoot over both of them. The guy keeps making bad decisions and is starting to rate up there with Dumbass and Pritchard. Like panchen stated, he has logged a lot of minutes and youth at some point needs to quit being a crutch. He is the most experienced player in Crean's system and leads the team in turnovers and ill advised shots/bad decisions. He is starting to be like nails on the chalkboard to me. But I totally blame Crean for this because he keeps allowing him to do the same things in games and not do anything about it. I think the guy should sit for 3 total games to reflect and start playing the way he should be playing. There is no consequences to his actions. He knows he will start each and every game and doesn't think he is doing anything wrong. I know we had only 7 total turnovers, but at least two or three of his were at bad times in the game, in my opinion.

Like SirBri said in his post, this seasons isn't about wins and loses. Hell the previous two seasons for sure shouldn't have been about wins and loses but about the fundamentals, but yet Crean keeps playing the ones who makes the most mistakes.
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